VPN vs Cloud Computers for connecting to home from Thailand

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, fdsa said:

I would ask someone who have bought a dedicated IP address from their home ISP to host a VPN server for me, then I would setup 2 virtual machines on my computer:

1) minimal Linux to connect to that VPN server and act as a "router" for another virtual machine

2) a "full" desktop OS for the desired tasks. This one would be connected ONLY to the first virtual machine, not to the host OS, and have to be tweaked accordingly for its job. For example, the DNS servers must be set to the target country of the VPN server, the system language must be set to the target country, the keyboard layout must NOT have Thai language and so on.

Why all that fuss? For what exactly? Nearly no one has static IPs these days from their home ISP. And why bother someone to set up a VPN in their router so that some other guy can use their connection?

 

How about he just installs a VPN client on his machine and either gets a dedicated IP from Nord or sets up a small VPS as suggested.

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

They can only get your IP address, approximate location via the IP address, the user agent (chrome) and the type of machine you are using via the user agent. They may also leave a cookie which identifies your request and can match it with previous requests. No identifying data is sent or obtainable. If worried, use an anonymous window in chrome or firefox. .

I often use Incognito when I get nervous about privacy, so I'm not concerned with that.  Again, I'm just looking for a way to reduce changes of red flags when I try to log in to sites from abroad...that's all.

[fdsa]

Just now, eisfeld said:

Why all that fuss? For what exactly? Nearly no one has static IPs these days from their home ISP. And why bother someone to set up a VPN in their router so that some other guy can use their connection?

 

How about he just installs a VPN client on his machine and either gets a dedicated IP from Nord or sets up a small VPS as suggested.

if a target website owners would have IQ above 80 they most likely would detect and block datacenter IP addresses and allow only home IP addresses.

guess which ones are used by Nord ????

[eisfeld]

4 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Excellent and very positive response...thanks!

 

Forgive my ignorance of the technical underpinning of all of this but I'm a little confused.  If I set up a cloud server, why would there be a need to install a VPN?  I mean, in terms of masking my own IP here in Thailand, isn't that what a cloud server would effectively be doing?

 

I was in touch with such a company called called PaperSpace https://www.paperspace.com/ and they briefly described their cloud server set-up stating that I could select a geographic location for any server they have world-wide.  They also said that the ip address could be set up to be dedicated to my own cloud server.

You can either do what the guy in the Youtube video did and get a machine with a whole graphical user interface with Windows or whatever and connect to that computer and then remote control... that's not a VPN though. Or you get a smaller machine which has no graphical user interface, has a VPN server software installed which you then connect to with your VPN client on your machine. The second option would be your own little private NordVPN so to say.

 

Pretty much every cloud provider will give you servers with dedicated IP addresses and you can set it up in whatever locations they offer when creating the server.

[WaveHunter]

8 minutes ago, fdsa said:

I would ask someone who have bought a dedicated IP address from their home ISP to host a VPN server for me, then I would setup 2 virtual machines on my computer:

1) minimal Linux to connect to that VPN server and act as a "router" for another virtual machine

2) a "full" desktop OS for the desired tasks. This one would be connected ONLY to the first virtual machine, not to the host OS, and have to be tweaked accordingly for its job. For example, the DNS servers must be set to the target country of the VPN server, the time and date must match the target country, the system language must be set to the target country, the keyboard layout must NOT have Thai language and so on.

OMG!!!  I admire your technical expertise, but all I am trying to do is reduce the possibility of getting red-flagged when I try to interact with sites from abroad.  What you suggest is serious overkill for my goals.  But I asked, and you answered, so thanks ????

  

Edited December 14, 2022 by WaveHunter

[fdsa]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

They can only get your IP address, approximate location via the IP address, the user agent (chrome) and the type of machine you are using via the user agent. They may also leave a cookie which identifies your request and can match it with previous requests. No identifying data is sent or obtainable. If worried, use an anonymous window in chrome or firefox. .

Unfortunately you are wrong - web browsers share much more identifying information than they should, for example the current time zone and the supported keyboard layouts. You most likely have "Asia/Bangkok" and "en,th" which does not match your American VPN ????

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, fdsa said:

if a target website owners would have IQ above 80 they most likely would detect and block datacenter IP addresses and allow only home IP addresses.

guess which ones are used by Nord ????

Nonsense. Plenty of legit traffic coming from datacenter ranges. Blocking whole ranges is a hammer that should only be used when absolutely necessary. Even Apple with their Private Relay service would then be blocked.

[fdsa]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

OMG!!!  I admire your technical expertise, but all I am trying to do is reduce the possibility of getting red-flagged when I try to interact with sites from abroad.  What you suggest is serious overkill for my goals.  But I asked, and you answered, so thanks ????

  

an easier solution would be to buy a cheap computer and use a remote access software such as Teamviewer or Anydesk, and browse your target websites directly from that computer.

But it must be located in your friend's house, who still must have a dedicated IP address from their home ISP.

[tgw]

5 minutes ago, fdsa said:

Unfortunately you are wrong - web browsers share much more identifying information than they should, for example the current time zone and the supported keyboard layouts. You most likely have "Asia/Bangkok" and "en,th" which does not match your American VPN ????

Firefox has a useful feature "user profiles", for which timezone, keyboard, language, etc. can be set differently.

 

[tgw]

1 minute ago, fdsa said:

an easier solution would be to buy a cheap computer and use a remote access software such as Teamviewer or Anydesk, and browse your target websites directly from that computer.

But it must be located in your friend's house, who still must have a dedicated IP address from their home ISP.

setting up VPN access to the friend's home router seems simpler and doesn't require their computer to be on.

[fdsa]

  

5 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Nonsense. Plenty of legit traffic coming from datacenter ranges. Blocking whole ranges is a hammer that should only be used when absolutely necessary. Even Apple with their Private Relay service would then be blocked.

Most wesites really do not care about visitors' IP adresses, however many still do, and if it was a nonsense there wouldn't be millions of threads like "please suggest a VPN which is not blocked by random_streaming_website_name".

If you want to be 100% sure - you need a home IP not a datacenter IP.

[WaveHunter]

2 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

...How about he just installs a VPN client on his machine and either gets a dedicated IP from Nord or sets up a small VPS as suggested....

-----------------------------------------------------

You can either do what the guy in the Youtube video did and get a machine with a whole graphical user interface with Windows or whatever and connect to that computer and then remote control... that's not a VPN though. Or you get a smaller machine which has no graphical user interface, has a VPN server software installed which you then connect to with your VPN client on your machine. The second option would be your own little private NordVPN so to say.

 

Pretty much every cloud provider will give you servers with dedicated IP addresses and you can set it up in whatever locations they offer when creating the server.

What you are describing is why I posted this thread in the first place LOL. I'm just trying to see whether Cloud computer or VPN makes the most sense.  I am fairly certain both will probably work for my needs, but want to figure out which is best.  

 

I mean, I'm just looking for a a way to reduce the possibility of getting red-flagged due to having a Thai IP while out of the States, nothing more.

 

I still do not understand why you are talking about VPN combined with a Cloud Machine.  Can you explain?

 

[gamb00ler]

21 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I still do not understand why you are talking about VPN combined with a Cloud Machine.  Can you explain?

Just having a Cloud Machine (VPS) won't allow you to do what you want.  To access the VPS and use it to hide your Thai IP address you will need software to do that.  VPN software may be overkill for that task but it is probably the easiest way to get to the functionality you require.  You could probably use proxy software which is less powerful.

Edited December 14, 2022 by gamb00ler

[WaveHunter]

I may have made more of an issue of this than I originally thought.  Just to be clear, my goal is a very simple one:  I just want to be able to log into sites in my home country (USA) from here in Thailand without being red-flagged for having a Thai IP Address.

 

Nord VPS works fine in that regard but the problem was that the VPN's server's IP address that I was using was being red-flagged as a VPN server.

 

Just now I started randomly connecting to Nord's different servers across the US and checking them with a VPN/Proxy Detection tool, and found other servers that are NOT being detected as VPN sites.

(see the snapshot below of the site I am now connected to)

 

So anyway, I appreciate all the input from you guys, and still think I will try a cloud machine to see how it works, but I feel more confident that VPN may be an adequate solution for my needs.

 

I learned a lot from you folks though, so thanks for that ????

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by WaveHunter

[Rice_King]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

That's a good point you made, especially with Amazon since I interact wit them through theier apps via a Chrome browser. 

 

So basically I'm screwed LOL!  Even with my own dedicated IP address assigned by Nord VPN, they would still be able to query my geographic location through their apps on my computer?

 

But what if I disabled location queries from my system preferences on my Mac OSX?

This Location Guard Browser plug-in doesn't replace a VPN, Virtual Desktop or a dedicated co-located server but it may help to prevent your location being disclosed in isolated instances.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I still do not understand why you are talking about VPN combined with a Cloud Machine.  Can you explain?

Like I mentioned you can use a cloud server in two different ways for your purposes. You can have one with e.g. Windows where you remote connect to it and then start a browser on that server and do your thing, that's what the guy in the Youtube video did. Or you can install a VPN server software on the server and just tunnel your internet traffic through it while using your local browser on your laptop similar to what you get from Nord VPN - it would be a private VPN.

 

4 minutes ago, Rice_King said:

This Location Guard Browser plug-in doesn't replace a VPN, Virtual Desktop or a dedicated co-located server but it may help to prevent your location being disclosed in isolated instances.

Don't think that would help the OP much.

[tomazbodner]

Not sure if this is within budget, but just test-driving this thing (currently just in Thailand, but I see no reason it should not work from/to anywhere): https://firewalla.com/

 

It is basically a firewall/VPN appliance for LAN/Wifi. Idea was that it connects to public network like at a lounge or in hotel, and establishes VPN tunnel right back to your home VPN concentrator (another box from them - testing with Gold Plus), so wherever you are, it operates like you were home. The point is that you can connect several devices to this box, and make secure tunnel back to your home setup.

 

It is not cheap though, but I am unaware of any other similar offering at a lower price point (although there is a project for Raspberry Pi but didn't bother with it).

[Rice_King]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Don't think that would help the OP much.

Maybe not. But it might help someone else reading this thread that needs just a little location blocking for certain sites.

[RayWright]

Similar subject to the one last month about watching the football World Cup.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1277599-how-to-watch-the-world-cup-for-dummies/?do=findComment&comment=17723324

 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1277599-how-to-watch-the-world-cup-for-dummies/?do=findComment&comment=17724024

 

 

 

As I said previously, I use a PC at a friend's house with TeamViewer installed. This means my UK Internet access is from a domestic / residential floating BT IP address range, so not likely to be picked up as a VPN IP address, which can be easily spotted by the volume of traffic originating from the same IP address. So if your say the BBC, then can easily spot 100+ connections from the same IP address accessing streaming services at the same time.

Also if you run a WhoIs on an IP address, the ownership and geographical location can be easily read and logically questioned. 

I mostly use Vyper as a VPN for non financial / TV activities, however their ownership details quite often uses their main USA address for a VPN connection that's not connected into the USA. So VPN into London Docklands shows as being in Las Vegas, Navada. When you check the WhoIs record the company address shows as being in Amsterdam Airport!

 

With most financial services moving to 2FA, (and Google etc),  then also beneficial to have an in-country mobile phone. That way any texts or calls are deemed local to your "home country", improving the perception your not abroad. I use the cheapest monthly PAYG mobile service, but only pay every 3 months, this keeps the mobile number active, so able to receive calls and texts. Any outgoing calls are via my local AIS mobile. For further impressions of being in-country, then use a in-country Skype number as well, so further creating the impression of a domestic landline or business number. 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, fdsa said:

an easier solution would be to buy a cheap computer and use a remote access software such as Teamviewer or Anydesk, and browse your target websites directly from that computer.

But it must be located in your friend's house, who still must have a dedicated IP address from their home ISP.

That's what I do but it can be a burden sometimes for the host.

I log into his network from Thailand, turn on the device which is just some kind of cheap box loaded with Linux, then connect to that via Teamviewer. I have been doing that for many years and of course it works. But always seeking other options as like I said, there are burdens.

[fdsa]

12 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

if some random loosely coded website on the internet tells you that it did not detect a VPN it does not necessarily mean that you actually don't use a VPN, and that your target website would not detect a VPN.

 

Try to use more advanced and recognized checkers such as:

https://browserleaks.com/ip

https://thesafety.us/check-ip

https://whoer.net/#extended

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by fdsa

[dotcalm]

If not interested in data encryption of a VPN tunnel, then you should consider using a proxy service. They cost more but are very robust solution for geo-blocking.

 

https://smartproxy.com/proxies/residential-proxies?x-clickref=1100lwoDbREY

[WaveHunter]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:40 PM, tgw said:

There is a simple solution to your problem, if you have friends in the USA, just ask them to setup a VPN for you on their home router.

Use DynDNS if their IP address is dynamic.

 

UPDATE:  I don't think a VPN in any form is going to work.  The real issue I am finding out is not just masking my Thai IP address, but also masking the fact that I am using a VPN, which can easily be detected by big companies (like social media sites, which is where I'm having most of my problems) since they almost all use datacenter IP's instead of residential IP's

 

Even residential proxies, while less likely to be detected are still not a perfect solution, and they are prohibitively  expensive for my needs.

 

The idea of a cloud computer is enticing but I think it's going to have the same issue of being detected as a proxy even though it is masking my foreign IP address.

 

WHAT ABOUT THIS IDEA:

I have a US ISP that I put on hold while I am overseas.  What if I contact them to reinstate the account.  Would there be a way that I could remotely connect to my US-based residential IP address from my Thai IP, and then have all of my traffic to/from problem sites like Facebook be from/to my US-based residential-based IP?

 

This solution would not involve any proxy at all and would be indistinguishable from any other US based home computer, right?

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

Just one thing about VPN they have a hard time hiding everything if you run it on your computer. It works better if you run it on your router. That way there is less chance of sites picking up on it. 

 

Also a problem is that the IP address you get can be known by the big sites and then they still know your  on a VPN. 

[fdsa]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Would there be a way that I could remotely connect to my US-based residential IP address from my Thai IP, and then have all of my traffic to/from problem sites like Facebook be from/to my US-based residential-based IP?

yes, and this thing is called "VPN". You will need a VPN server installed at your home in US to connect to. It has to be run on either a dedicated computer (even the cheapest one will be capable of running a VPN server) or directly on the router if the router is high-end one (most cheap routers can't act as a VPN server)

 

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

This solution would not involve any proxy at all and would be indistinguishable from any other US based home computer, right?

you have to use a proxy if you want to appear like being in another country. A web-based proxies like recommended above is a bullshít, a VPN based proxy is much better solution.

And as I've said a few times already - you won't fool the "problem sites" without properly configuring your computer.

Edited December 17, 2022 by fdsa

[ukrules]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:28 PM, WaveHunter said:

THESE are are the real issues that are causing me problems...the VPN's IP address

Correct

[tgw]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

UPDATE:  I don't think a VPN in any form is going to work.  The real issue I am finding out is not just masking my Thai IP address, but also masking the fact that I am using a VPN, which can easily be detected by big companies (like social media sites, which is where I'm having most of my problems) since they almost all use datacenter IP's instead of residential IP's

 

Even residential proxies, while less likely to be detected are still not a perfect solution, and they are prohibitively  expensive for my needs.

 

The idea of a cloud computer is enticing but I think it's going to have the same issue of being detected as a proxy even though it is masking my foreign IP address.

 

WHAT ABOUT THIS IDEA:

I have a US ISP that I put on hold while I am overseas.  What if I contact them to reinstate the account.  Would there be a way that I could remotely connect to my US-based residential IP address from my Thai IP, and then have all of my traffic to/from problem sites like Facebook be from/to my US-based residential-based IP?

 

This solution would not involve any proxy at all and would be indistinguishable from any other US based home computer, right?

 

A VPN like I suggested would be indistinguishable from a US based home computer, because it would use the home computer's router.

[WaveHunter]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:19 PM, tgw said:

A VPN like I suggested would be indistinguishable from a US based home computer, because it would use the home computer's router.

Can you go into further detail about what you meant when you said "setting up VPN access to the friend's home router seems simpler and doesn't require their computer to be on."?

 

I've come to the same conclusion that a VPN the way I'm using it now is not a solution for one main reason: While a VPN will mask my Thai IP address, it will not mask details about my actual laptop.

 

I was kind of shocked to run an IP check while using the VPN and find out that details about my laptop were not being masked at all:  This is what was included when I ran an IP check while using Nord VPN set to a USA location:

 

If this information is not being masked than any website I try to connect to can easily see the discrepancy between my operating system and Chrome browser settings for time and location and that of the VPN server, so I think that would be a major red-flag.

 

I am looking into using a cloud computer set up (virtual machine) since it would have its' own operating system (Windows 10) that would be in the same USA location as its' IP address, and maybe that would be the solution since my own laptop would not be visible in any way at all.  With that setup you only interact with is using your mouse and keyboard through a remote desktop connection from your laptop.

 

I was surprised to learn that it only takes 10 minutes to set one up and the cost can be as low as $10 USD per month!  The company I was looking into is called Paperspace.com

 

Aside from possibly solving my dilemma, it's also a pretty cool solution for a lot of other things since you can configure in ways where you can have a "virtual" Windows 10 computer with as much RAM, computing power, and storage space as you want!

 

However, the one thing I would still be concerned with using such a set up is that it probably also uses a "data center" IP address, and not a residential IP address, so that's why I'm still interested in your idea and want to know more about it.

 

I have family and friend back in the USA, so what you suggest is intriguing.  I think what you are suggesting is that somehow I could connect through their internet IP, but I'm not really sure how someone would feel comfortable allowing me to do that, especially if it might degrade their performance or be a security issue for them.

 

Anyway, I would be VERY interested to learn more about what you have in mind.

Edited December 20, 2022 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:54 PM, robblok said:

Just one thing about VPN they have a hard time hiding everything if you run it on your computer. It works better if you run it on your router. That way there is less chance of sites picking up on it. 

 

Also a problem is that the IP address you get can be known by the big sites and then they still know your  on a VPN. 

Hi Robblok,

You are exactly right.  Ive been using Nord VPN for about a month and it is not solving my problem at all.  While it masks my Thailand IP address, that's all it really does.  Details about my laptop are not masked at all.

 

WHen I ran an IP check while connecting through one of their USA servers, it effectively masked my Thailand IP Address and showed a USA IP address BUT it also showed this:

 

I think this would be a HUGE red flag to more sophisticated servers I want to connect to like social media sites and government sites since it shows a discrepancy between the VPN server settings and my laptop setting for time and location.

 

So, I am now looking into using a "virtual machine" or cloud computer since not only would it have a USA IP address, but my "virtual" computer itself would be located in the same place.  I discovered that it's actually a very easy and inexpensive solution so I'm going to set it up and try it out.

 

BTW, I miss our "lively"  discussions of the past, though I have seriously toned down my position on those topics lately ????

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:56 PM, fdsa said:

yes, and this thing is called "VPN". You will need a VPN server installed at your home in US to connect to. It has to be run on either a dedicated computer (even the cheapest one will be capable of running a VPN server) or directly on the router if the router is high-end one (most cheap routers can't act as a VPN server)

 

you have to use a proxy if you want to appear like being in another country. A web-based proxies like recommended above is a bullshít, a VPN based proxy is much better solution.

And as I've said a few times already - you won't fool the "problem sites" without properly configuring your computer.

You and others have made a lot of interesting points and I explored them all over the weekend.  I also talked to my ISP in the US where my account is on hold while I am overseas so I have plenty of bits and pieces of a solution, but still not sure what the best solution really is.

 

One of the senior engineers at my US ISP is going to call me tonight about the "Teamviewer" thing that you mentioned.  I still don't understand just how that would work exactly but he said that their tech support people use it among themselves and he thought there might be some way it could serve as a solution, but he wasn't sure so he said he'd look into it and let me know.

 

So far though, the most promising idea seems to be setting up a virtual cloud machine with its' own Windows 10 operating system that I can access from here in Thailand using the desktop remote connection from my laptop.  That way, not only is the Cloud computer;s IP address a US based one, but the virtual computer is also US-based.  All I am doing is using my laptop's mouse and keyboard to communicate with the cloud computer.

 

It's really far easier and less expensive than I first thought.  One company that offers it is the one the YouTube guy is using for similar purposes to mine.  It's called Paperspace and after checking them out it sounds like it should only take about 10 minutes to set it up and the cost can be as low as $10 per month.

 

All I know for certain is that the VPN option is just not working.  Presently when I use the Nord VPN here in Thailand to connect to one of their US-based servers, my Thailand IP address is certainly masked BUT my laptop is not, as evidenced by this IP CHeck I did while connected with the VPN:

 

So, it seems to me that this mismatch between the time/location on my laptop's operating system located here in Thailand, and the time/location of the VPN server located in New York City is actually what is getting me red-flagged.

 

Am I making a proper assumption with all of this?

 

I mean, It just seems to be a far more likely "red-flag" than the fact that the VPN is using a data-center IP since there are a lot of US based users who connect with data-center IP and are not red-flagged.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by WaveHunter