Why are all long-term visas called "Non-Immigrant"?

[JoseThailand]

It doesn't make much sense to me. I understand why education or retirement visas are considered "non-immigrant" as they don't lead to any permanent (immigrant) status in the country. But what about marriage or work visas? They are called non-immigrant too, although they do lead to a permanent status (permanent residence or citizenship). Or am I missing something?

[DrJack54]

Folk on extensions from a non O have permission of stay.

In the case of non O marriage and retirement that is 12 month permit.

 

Nothing permanent about it.

Yes there is a pathway to Thai citizenship (if you satisfy other requirements)  however for those on extensions is a year by year gig. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by DrJack54

[Pattaya Spotter]

Yes you are missing something...very few of the marriage or retirement "visas" lead to permanent residency and even fewer to citizenship. The name "non-immigrant" visa means exactly as it says...it's for residing in Thailand for a specified period of time and for a specific purpose. It doesn't confer any right to immigrate to The Kingdom. 

[novacova]

Most “immigrants” that I know of in Thailand are Burmese migrants seeking asylum status as refugees, no visa needed, though they must reside in the province of registration and need permission to travel outside of the province. Immigrants from Cambodia here working.
Non-Immigrants typically non Asean = visa/permission to stay. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by novacova

[JoseThailand]

6 minutes ago, novacova said:

Most “immigrants” that I know of in Thailand are Burmese migrants seeking asylum status as refugees, no visa needed, though they must reside in the province of registration and need permission to travel outside of the province. Immigrants from Cambodia here working.
Non-Immigrants typically non Asean = visa/permission to stay. 

I thought most Myanmar people in Thailand are working migrants, same as Cambodians. Didn't know Thailand can give them an asylum (or anyone else, for that matter).

 

Btw, do Cambodians need a visa and work permit to work in Thailand?

[FriendlyFarang]

6 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

It doesn't make much sense to me. I understand why education or retirement visas are considered "non-immigrant" as they don't lead to any permanent (immigrant) status in the country. But what about marriage or work visas? They are called non-immigrant too, although they do lead to a permanent status (permanent residence or citizenship). Or am I missing something?

They reflect your current status, you are not an immigrant, just a temporary visitor.

A very small percentage might later become immigrants.

[BritTim]

Non immigrant is used to indicate that, while not a tourist or in transit, you have only a temporary right to stay. You have not been granted permanent residence. "Temporary" can mean for a year or even longer (with the O-X visa) but, as requirements change, you may be unable to stay past the end of your current permission to stay. New Thailand Elite memberships now only last for a maximum of 20 years (so, in a sense are temporary) but the original memberships were lifetime and they are categorised differently.

[malt25]

"It doesn't make much sense to me."  Welcome to LOS.

[Boomer6969]

10 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It doesn't confer any right to immigrate to The Kingdom. 

It doesn't that's right but OP was right as he wrote "leading to". Now he would be be extremely naive if he expected other than utter reluctance, parochialism and preposterous requirements from the Thais once he submits his application for permanent residence or citizenship. 

[nigelforbes]

13 minutes ago, malt25 said:

"It doesn't make much sense to me."  Welcome to LOS.

When things here begin to make sense, I'm going home.

[hotandsticky]

19 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

When things here begin to make sense, I'm going home.

You are on safe ground...............

 

 

 

This is "home" - even for us aliens.

[MRToMRT]

Sounds classier than " just a tourist on a longer stay"

[NorthernRyland]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

Non immigrant is used to indicate that, while not a tourist or in transit, you have only a temporary right to stay.

You're still effectively a tourist, albeit a little longer term. 90 day reports are included also so you interact with immigration the same amount as a tourist would on a METV. No other special privileges, double pricing the same as tourists etc... IMO all foreigners in Thailand are tourists and I refer to myself as a tourist if anyone asks. 

[NorthernRyland]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

New Thailand Elite memberships now only last for a maximum of 20 years

They reduced it from lifetime then to 30 and now only 20 for the 1 million baht one?

[ChrisKC]

Interestingly, the Immigration Dept is a rather odd choice title given that no foreigner can be an immigrant, unless a doubtful wish to become a Thai citizen is successful. But even then, "immigrant" is not really what one is. 

[Neeranam]

58 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

It doesn't that's right but OP was right as he wrote "leading to". Now he would be be extremely naive if he expected other than utter reluctance, parochialism and preposterous requirements from the Thais once he submits his application for permanent residence or citizenship. 

There are no preposterous requirements for citizenship, that's a bar stool myth. 

Not even a requirement to read/write/ speak Thai now, if married to a local. 

Easy if married to a Thai. I applied Dec 2017 and got it Dec 2020, with delays for Covid. 

I worked as an English teacher for 3 years, paying tax on 40,000 baht a month. 

Anyway, I call myself an expat, not an immigrant, but won't go into why. 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Neeranam

[Tropposurfer]

Unless someone is a refugee, or seeking asylum for political reasons I am unaware of any nation that allows people to simply go there and attain permanent resident status or citizenship as a natural matter of course, simply because they gain access, reside in that nation for an extended period either by default or by simply making an application. ('possession being nine-tenths of the law' so to speak, and that simply being there invoked some power of influence on conditions of stay).

Such confirming of status-change is purely discretionary by the government of the day ... always, and rigidly enforced and made systemically difficult for reasons known to Immigration Departments all over the world.

 

I am also unaware of any nation I have visited that automatically designates visa status as anything other than a non-immigrant/visitor type status allowing one to residing at the discretion of the government of that nation for a finite period.

 

I know if no nation that bestows permanent residency or citizenship because you work or marry someone.

 

Go try and marry a foreigner as an Australian and watch the convoluted and painfully drawn-out process of being able to even have your wife or husband actually live in the country with you other than for temporary tourist visa, heavily regulated, AND I.O. checked during the period of stay (especially if you hail form a nation that is profiled as 'high-risk' for absconding or other nefarious actions once in-country), leaving aside permanent residency or citizenship pathways (this takes many many more years, sometimes decades).

Well, unless you fit into a very narrow and deliberately constructed criteria e.g. age, white/Caucasian (yes this is the actual reality - still), rich, able to invest considerable amounts of money into the nations economy, hold a skillset e.g. doctor, engineer, builder, plumber etc.

 

[JeffersLos]

How on God's green Earth do you consider 12 months to be long term??? ????

[Tropposurfer]

24 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

Interestingly, the Immigration Dept is a rather odd choice title given that no foreigner can be an immigrant, unless a doubtful wish to become a Thai citizen is successful. But even then, "immigrant" is not really what one is. 

immigration | ˌɪmɪˈɡreɪʃn | noun [mass noun] the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country: a barrier to control illegal immigration from Mexico. • the place at an airport or country's border where government officials check the documents of people entering that country: the airport has long queues at immigration and baggage reclaim.

(Oxford Dictionary, 2022)

 

The second sentence is relevant to your query, assumption, idea, of the word immigration >>> Signed your friendly AN pedant ????????

 

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

How on God's green Earth do you consider 12 months to be long term??? ????

Some of those who are now stamped into Thailand with a LTR visa are considered to be Long term residents now, but make no mistake we are still non-immigrants and that allowed entry we have could be canceled anytime. It should be a LTTR, or Long Term Temporary Redident Visa. Yet I will take, it as I have, and use it to the best of my ability.

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Some of those who are now stamped into Thailand with a LTR visa are considered to be Long term residents now, but make no mistake we are still non-immigrants and that allowed entry we have could be canceled anytime. It should be a LTTR, or Long Term Temporary Redident Visa. Yet I will take, it as I have, and use it to the best of my ability.

Why would they cancel your visa? 

10 years is a long time, or is it a year to year thing? 

I guess naturalized citizens could be revoked at any time, but unlikely. 

[Neeranam]

20 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

Unless someone is a refugee, or seeking asylum for political reasons I am unaware of any nation that allows people to simply go there and attain permanent resident status or citizenship as a natural matter of course, simply because they gain access, reside in that nation for an extended period either by default or by simply making an application. ('possession being nine-tenths of the law' so to speak, and that simply being there invoked some power of influence on conditions of stay).

Such confirming of status-change is purely discretionary by the government of the day ... always, and rigidly enforced and made systemically difficult for reasons known to Immigration Departments all over the world.

 

I am also unaware of any nation I have visited that automatically designates visa status as anything other than a non-immigrant/visitor type status allowing one to residing at the discretion of the government of that nation for a finite period.

 

I know if no nation that bestows permanent residency or citizenship because you work or marry someone.

 

Go try and marry a foreigner as an Australian and watch the convoluted and painfully drawn-out process of being able to even have your wife or husband actually live in the country with you other than for temporary tourist visa, heavily regulated, AND I.O. checked during the period of stay (especially if you hail form a nation that is profiled as 'high-risk' for absconding or other nefarious actions once in-country), leaving aside permanent residency or citizenship pathways (this takes many many more years, sometimes decades).

Well, unless you fit into a very narrow and deliberately constructed criteria e.g. age, white/Caucasian (yes this is the actual reality - still), rich, able to invest considerable amounts of money into the nations economy, hold a skillset e.g. doctor, engineer, builder, plumber etc.

 

Indeed, much easier in Thailand than Australia. 

[Boomer6969]

28 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

that's a bar stool myth

Dumb stereotype that discredits anything you could say, if that was still need. I never go to bars, and based my comment on the rules and regulations, as well as first hand accounts.

[Boomer6969]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, much easier in Thailand than Australia. 

More nonsense, I got my Australian citizenship in less than 6 weeks, had to fill in a few forms and one interview. Got permanent residence as my initial visa, as I had skills in high demand.

[tomazbodner]

If you get PR, so your permanent residence is within Thailand, you will get Non-quota immigrant visa should you need to re-enter.

[sandyf]

56 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

Interestingly, the Immigration Dept is a rather odd choice title given that no foreigner can be an immigrant,

Nothing odd about it. The people who work there are immigration police who's job it is to maintain the Immigration Act.

Whatever anyone thinks it all means the act has specified that any Non-Thai entering the country is an "immigrant".

• "Alien" means any person who is not of Thai nationality under the nationality Act.
• "Immigrant" means any alien who enters the Kingdom.

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-definition-sections-1-5/

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

There are no preposterous requirements for citizenship, that's a bar stool myth. 

Not even a requirement to read/write/ speak Thai now, if married to a local. 

Easy if married to a Thai. I applied Dec 2017 and got it Dec 2020, with delays for Covid. 

I worked as an English teacher for 3 years, paying tax on 40,000 baht a month. 

Anyway, I call myself an expat, not an immigrant, but won't go into why. 

Unfortunately, even though I am married to a local and despite my grasp of the Thai language being minimal, it is still not possible for me to apply for Thai citizenship (much that I would like to) on the grounds that I have never worked nor paid any income tax in Thailand.

 

So the requirements are, indeed, not preposterous as you have stated, but rather completely insurmountable - for both me and also, I strongly suspect, many others on here (whether or not we like to call ourselves non-immigrants!).

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by OJAS

[In the jungle]

10 hours ago, novacova said:

Most “immigrants” that I know of in Thailand are Burmese migrants seeking asylum status as refugees, no visa needed, though they must reside in the province of registration and need permission to travel outside of the province. Immigrants from Cambodia here working.
Non-Immigrants typically non Asean = visa/permission to stay. 

Thailand is not a signatory to the 1951 refugee convention.  That convention imposes conditions upon signatory states.  To take one example under the 1951 convention refugees cannot be charged money for such status in a host nation.

 

Thailand makes its own rules on refugees which, I suspect, are imprecise and inconsistently applied like many of their other immigration laws.

[ThailandRyan]

53 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why would they cancel your visa? 

10 years is a long time, or is it a year to year thing? 

I guess naturalized citizens could be revoked at any time, but unlikely. 

Your given 5 years the first time your stamped into the country, and given 5 more years after a review of your provisios at tge end of tge first 5 years.  At the end of tge 10th year you re-apply again and will obtain the same visa as long as your provisios and bonafides allow you to meet the requirements.

 

If one does something stupid Visas can be canceled or can they not?, same with those who have residency? 

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Unfortunately, even though I am married to a local and despite my grasp of the Thai language being minimal, it is not possible for me to apply for Thai citizenship (much that I would like to) on the grounds that I have never worked nor paid any income tax in Thailand.

 

So the requirements are, indeed, not preposterous as you have stated, but rather completely insurmountable in my and many others' cases on here.

 

Having never truly worked in Thailand nor ever paid Taxes does indeed keep one from applying for Residency or even Citizenship. It is why those of us who have chosen to live out our lives here and have family gravitate towards certain types of Visas based upon our qualifications in meeting the requirements for that specific visa or extension thereof.....