Confederate Robert E Lee to be removed from West Point Academy

[Social Media 4221]

The U.S. Military Academy at West Point is starting to remove Confederate statues and symbols from its campus, in compliance with a federal order formally set in motion by the Department of Defense this past October. 

Over the holiday break, which began on Dec. 18, the country's oldest service academy launched what its superintendent described as a "multi-phased process" to either take down or modify displays that memorialize the Confederacy, including an immediate plan to move a portrait of Robert E. Lee wearing a Confederate uniform into storage.

[stoner 10015]

history needs to be learned from not erased. 

[Gsxrnz 11307]

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." Orwell, 1984

 

Somehow I always knew we would end up at the dystopian crossroads of Orwell, Bradbury, and Huxley.

 

 

[proton 10052]

Ironically he was less of a racist than Lincoln, who did not believe blacks should inter marry, hold public office or have the vote. Lee was a patriot and great general. The CSA had just as much right to leave the Union as the 13 states had to leave the crown.

 

So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the south. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.
 

Robert E. Lee

Edited December 27, 2022 by proton

[Denim 22824]

I suppose General Lee from the Dukes of Hazard will either be sent to the crusher or painted in Henry Fords favorite color.

 

[amexpat 2358]

How about a statue of Admiral Yamamoto who led the attack on Pearl Harbor?  He also declared war on the USA same as Lee. 

[proton 10052]

13 minutes ago, amexpat said:

How about a statue of Admiral Yamamoto who led the attack on Pearl Harbor?  He also declared war on the USA same as Lee. 

Lee acted in defence of the south after Lincolns invasion by the Union to force them back into it.  

[ozimoron 22892]

7 minutes ago, proton said:

Lee acted in defence of the south after Lincolns invasion by the Union to force them back into it.  

Lee was a traitor.

 

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/173624

 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-robert-e-lee-traitor-20170524-story.html

Edited December 27, 2022 by ozimoron

[In the jungle 1674]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Lee was a traitor.

 

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/173624

 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-robert-e-lee-traitor-20170524-story.html

and a loser.

[ThailandRyan 59547]

2 hours ago, proton said:

Lee acted in defence of the south after Lincolns invasion by the Union to force them back into it.  

Say what?  Secession was not a separation of the US into two countries. It was an act of war and disobedience to the government of the USA.  

[proton 10052]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Lee was a traitor.

 

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/173624

 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-robert-e-lee-traitor-20170524-story.html

How was he? certainly not to Virgina, Lincoln was the real traitor as he declared war without congressional approval and ignored the constitution, arresting people, closing down newspapers and even deporting people who disagreed with him, a tyrant.

[Jingthing 94983]

Nobody is erasing him from history but he doesn't deserve honorifics in United States military institutions. 

What took them so long?

[proton 10052]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Say what?  Secession was not a separation of the US into two countries. It was an act of war and disobedience to the government of the USA.  

No it was a declaration of independence from the exploitative North, no different from 1776. Lincoln declared war and invaded the south, a few canon shots at fort Sumter, that should have been evacuated by the Union, was not an act of war.

[ThailandRyan 59547]

Just now, proton said:

No it was a declaration of independence from the exploitative North, no different from 1776. Lincoln declared war and invaded the south, a few canon shots at fort Sumter, that should have been evacuated by the Union, was not an act of war.

And so you are a anti civil war believer, you must love what Russia is trying to do to Ukraine then.

[proton 10052]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Nobody is erasing him from history but he doesn't deserve honorifics in United States military institutions. 

What took them so long?

As one of Americas greatest generals he certainly does. The war was an avoidable disaster instigated by one person, Lincoln. Certainly not about slavery as he admitted himself and all about preserving the Union.

[Jingthing 94983]

1 minute ago, proton said:

As one of Americas greatest generals he certainly does. The war was an avoidable disaster instigated by one person, Lincoln. Certainly not about slavery as he admitted himself and all about preserving the Union.

Lee was not fighting for America. 

End of.

[proton 10052]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

And so you are a anti civil war believer, you must love what Russia is trying to do to Ukraine then.

How can anyone be an anti civil war believer when at least 700k Americans were killed to force the CSA back into the Union? Slavery could have been solved by other means than launching a war on the CSA, Lincoln was not interested in slavery, only in preserving the Union, by killing and destruction.

[proton 10052]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Lee was not fighting for America. 

End of.

He was, for the confederate states of America

[ozimoron 22892]

Just now, proton said:

How can anyone be an anti civil war believer when at least 700k Americans were killed to force the CSA back into the Union? Slavery could have been solved by other means than launching a war on the CSA, Lincoln was not interested in slavery, only in preserving the Union, by killing and destruction.

Please put up links to a cogent argument that slavery could have been ended peacefully.

[proton 10052]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Please put up links to a cogent argument that slavery could have been ended peacefully.

This is not a court of inquiry. If you care to look into it the British did it in the 1830's by compensating slave owners in the colonies, ofter they stopped the slave trade in 1807. Enormously expensive, but a good deal less than the cost of the American civil war and hundreds of thousands of deaths. Did you know Lincoln proposed keeping slavery until 1900 if the CSA re joined the Union, and also planned to ship freed slaves back to Africa en mass, or do you need a link to that as well. The ignorance of many Americans about their history is depressing, they just repeat the brainwashing they had at school!

Edited December 27, 2022 by proton

[ozimoron 22892]

1 minute ago, proton said:

This is not a court of inquiry. If you care to look into it the British did it in the 1830's by compensating slave owners in the colonies, ofter they stopped the slave trade in 1808. Enormously expensive, but a good deal less than the cost of the American civil war and hundreds of thousands of deaths. Did you know Lincoln proposed keeping slavery until 1900 if the CSA re joined the Union, and also planned to ship freed slaves back to Africa en mass, or do you need a link to that as well. The ignorance of many Americans about their history is depressing, they just repeat the brainwashing they had at school!

The rules of the forum require you to substantiate any claim of fact.

[proton 10052]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The rules of the forum require you to substantiate any claim of fact.

 

The Slave Compensation Act 1837 (1 & 2 Vict. c. 3) was the world's first major act of compensated emancipation and an Act of Parliament in the United Kingdom, signed into law on 23 December 1837. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837

[Jingthing 94983]

21 minutes ago, proton said:

He was, for the confederate states of America

A separate nation. 

[Doctor Tom 3245]

4 hours ago, Gsxrnz said:

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." Orwell, 1984

Probably one of the more inane comments he made and he made many . You can't control the past of course  You can learn and try to understand it, but that is not what Orwell meant. As to the present, it is what it is, you don't make it, or 'control' it, you merely live in it. It then gets set as 'history', which is under constant review, reinterpretation  and revelation against present morals and social constructs, hence idiotic decisions to re write it in modern terms, as the  MA and many other institutions in the West appear to be doing. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Doctor Tom

[ThailandRyan 59547]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

 

The Slave Compensation Act 1837 (1 & 2 Vict. c. 3) was the world's first major act of compensated emancipation and an Act of Parliament in the United Kingdom, signed into law on 23 December 1837. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Compensation_Act_1837

So you think the US of A should have done like the UK, how laughable....different times and circumstances my friend.

[seedy 3877]

Since the beginning of time, these words have been true ...

 

“Isn’t that rebellion? Yes or no?”
“Yes. But there are mitigating circumstances. Serious miti—”
“There are no ‘mitigating circumstances’ when it comes to rebellion against a sovereign lord.”
“Unless you win.”

 

Shogun

[Jingthing 94983]

Some Americans are still fighting the civil war.

 

Ain't it the truth!

 

https://www.51voa.com/VOA_Special_English/why-americans-still-fighting-the-civil-war-76356.html

[Denim 22824]

3 hours ago, proton said:

Lincoln was not interested in slavery, only in preserving the Union, by killing and destruction.

Lincoln famously said :

 

".If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that ”

 

Yet before he was elected , it was known that a probable consequence of his victory would be the succession of South Carolina and other states .

 

https://www.ushistory.org/us/32e.asp

[Denim 22824]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Lee was a traitor.

By the same logic , so was George Washington.

[ozimoron 22892]

16 minutes ago, Denim said:

By the same logic , so was George Washington.

I  provided a link to my claim, where's yours?