Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s (R) petition for a grand jury investigation into COVID-19 vaccines, in which he decries the ongoing vaccine campaign as “propaganda” by the Biden administration, is drawing fierce criticism from health experts.

 

Physicians and public health experts say his request betrays decades of established procedure designed to ensure the safety and efficacy of the vaccines, and only serves to stoke further immunization fears.

 

 

DeSantis’s petition for a grand jury investigation was approved by the Florida Supreme Court on Thursday, clearing the way for what his office described as a probe into “wrongdoing committed against Floridians related to the COVID-19 vaccine.”

 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3786927-desantiss-request-for-covid-vaccine-probe-denounced-by-health-experts/

 

In the article Desantis claimed that it wasn't likely that the consensus among the various experts wasn't arrived at independently. He posited some kind of undue influence or possibly a conspiracy. To his way of thinking it isn't possible that the facts led them there.

Just like for hundreds of year virtually scientist accepted Newton's theory of gravitation because of some kind of plot.

Morally speaking, those who, like Desantis, promote these lies are guilty of murder.

I guess Desantis missed the memo pointing out that the vaccines were developed while Trump was in office....

 

1 minute ago, Emdog said:

I guess Desantis missed the memo pointing out that the vaccines were developed while Trump was in office....

 

It looks like Trump missed the memo, too. After being loudly booed a few times at MAGA events after taking credit for the vaccines, Trump has since been silent on the issue.

I’m amazed and horrified to see people who would sacrifice lives for some bunko bs theory all in a quest for power I hope this bloated gas lighter gets his just desert’s and is flushed down into the cesspit of history 

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

In the article Desantis claimed that it wasn't likely that the consensus among the various experts wasn't arrived at independently. He posited some kind of undue influence or possibly a conspiracy. To his way of thinking it isn't possible that the facts led them there.

Just like for hundreds of year virtually scientist accepted Newton's theory of gravitation because of some kind of plot.

Morally speaking, those who, like Desantis, promote these lies are guilty of murder.

Oops! Double negative. Should have read: "In the article Desantis claimed that it wasn't likely that the consensus among the various experts was arrived at independently."

Lot of people needlessly lost their lives  because of charlatans like these guys in conservative states. 

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Axios is complete left wing bias.  Please.

Data from CDC..............????

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Axios is complete left wing bias.  Please.

Implications of Red State/Blue State Differences in COVID-19 Death Rates

"For the pre-vaccine period using COVID deaths up to 4/19/2021, the death rate in red states was 1,680/million and in blue states was 1,714/million for a ratio of red state death rates to blue state rates of just under 1.0...

For the period post-4/19/2021, COVID deaths decreased in blue states from 588/day pre-4/19/2021 to 373/day from 4/19-2/28/2022 while the number of deaths in red states increased from 769 per day to 840 per day over the same time periods. The change in deaths in blue states represents a 36.6% decrease and the change in red states represents a 9.4% increase, accounting for >222,000 excess deaths in red states (with larger total population) for the period from 3/1/2020 through 2/28/2022, or 305 excess deaths/day"

https://www.fortunejournals.com/articles/implications-of-red-stateblue-state-differences-in-covid19-death-rates.html

 

For the Pro-Vaxx crowd: 
Keep getting your mRNA boosters on a regular basis. 
Safe and Effective! 

33 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

That's all you've got.

Says an individual that never backs up any of his (?) mind-blowing conspiracy theories with anything even resembling facts!

1 minute ago, connda said:

For the Pro-Vaxx crowd: 
Keep getting your mRNA boosters on a regular basis. 
Safe and Effective! 

Nobody ever suggested that the vaccines were without risk, Every medical handout prior to receiving a vaccine clearly said do. The assessment, borne out by the results, was that the virus itself was far worse.

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is laughable. Did you actually read this article? This actually establishes the contrary of what you believe. It's not about vaccinations or big pharma. It's about the possible undetected role that covid-19 played in the deaths of infants.

Here's a selection from it:

"Dr Sarah Stock, an expert in maternal and fetal health at University of Edinburgh, said it was rare for newborn babies to become infected or seriously-ill with Covid but she said the virus could be having an impact in other ways.

"We know, for instance, that when pregnant women have Covid they can become seriously unwell, and in order to protect the mother and baby that can lead to pre-term deliveries," she said. "Pre-term delivery is the biggest driver of neonatal mortality."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-59347464

She also goes on to cite the possiblity that stress on the hospital system due to covid may be responsible.

 

I look forward to your response.

I did read the article.  Yes, it's from the BBC.  Do you expect the BBC to take an anti-vax position?  Now that would be laughable.  Of course they are going to address the facts and then come up with any doctor or other expert to provide other "possibilities" as explanations.  That's like, duh!

And so it doesn't "establish" anything.  Or did you read anything which absolutely confirms the cause?  You didn't because it's not there.  But you're likely to believe anything, even the most remotest possibility they offer, as long as it fits your narrative.  Let's not fool each other.

The point of my posting that article was to highlight the headline, which fact can't be completely ignored.  I believe the problem exists in the U.S. as well.  Which is why I'm applauding DeSantis' efforts.  What objection do you have for finding the real cause?

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Nobody ever suggested that the vaccines were without risk, Every medical handout prior to receiving a vaccine clearly said do. The assessment, borne out by the results, was that the virus itself was far worse.

There's no point. The anti-vaxxers we interact with here are impervious to facts and are so firmly and deeply lodged in the rabbit hole there's no way back for them. Take the clear and obvious correlation between vaccination rates and death rates. A moderately intelligent 5 year old would come to the obvious conclusion presented with the data from the CDC, but not these guys. Quite fascinating to watch them, really.

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Implications of Red State/Blue State Differences in COVID-19 Death Rates

"For the pre-vaccine period using COVID deaths up to 4/19/2021, the death rate in red states was 1,680/million and in blue states was 1,714/million for a ratio of red state death rates to blue state rates of just under 1.0...

For the period post-4/19/2021, COVID deaths decreased in blue states from 588/day pre-4/19/2021 to 373/day from 4/19-2/28/2022 while the number of deaths in red states increased from 769 per day to 840 per day over the same time periods. The change in deaths in blue states represents a 36.6% decrease and the change in red states represents a 9.4% increase, accounting for >222,000 excess deaths in red states (with larger total population) for the period from 3/1/2020 through 2/28/2022, or 305 excess deaths/day"

https://www.fortunejournals.com/articles/implications-of-red-stateblue-state-differences-in-covid19-death-rates.html

 

Sources pending review.  Now I've been told that if a source is not confirmed as reliable it can't be used.  Let's play by your rules.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fortunejournals.com

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

One of the most damning pieces of evidence against the political right is their reliance on videos. And the reason for that is quite clear. It's a lot harder to fact check a video than it is to fact check the written word. And it also takes a lot more time. Unless it's just that there's an epidemic of dyslexia raging among right wingers and they have no choice but to view videos.

 

I did read (Yes i confess to being at least somewhat literate) critques of Johnson's claims and it was noted that Johnson cited the VAERS as a basis for his claims about the dangers of vaccination. That alone disqualifies him from any serious consideration.

ANd a grand jury is the way to weigh scientific evidence?. Are they going to empanel a jury of 12 virologists and epidemiologists? You keep on coming up with nonsense. And more conspiracy theories about various media sources. 

Multiple misleading posts and replies have been removed along with unapproved questionable links to Rumble

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Sources pending review.  Now I've been told that if a source is not confirmed as reliable it can't be used.  Let's play by your rules.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fortunejournals.com

You think that scientific journals are to be treated the same way as popular journalism? 

5 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Sources pending review.  Now I've been told that if a source is not confirmed as reliable it can't be used.  Let's play by your rules.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fortunejournals.com

When you say "your rules" you mean AN's rules, right?

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-in-republican-counties-have-higher-death-rates-than-those-in-democratic-counties/

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/red-blue-america-glaring-divide-covid-19-death/story?id=83649085

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Data from CDC..............????

I believe the CDC will be investigated by DeSantis.  Don't quote me on that because I can't find the source.  If/when I do I'll post it.  The CDC doesn't sport a halo above it's official insignia.  Of course any government official who supports the narrative of the left is beyond corruption.  That's a given assumption that's plain as fact.  Right?

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I did read the article.  Yes, it's from the BBC.  Do you expect the BBC to take an anti-vax position?  Now that would be laughable.  Of course they are going to address the facts and then come up with any doctor or other expert to provide other "possibilities" as explanations.  That's like, duh!

And so it doesn't "establish" anything.  Or did you read anything which absolutely confirms the cause?  You didn't because it's not there.  But you're likely to believe anything, even the most remotest possibility they offer, as long as it fits your narrative.  Let's not fool each other.

The point of my posting that article was to highlight the headline, which fact can't be completely ignored.  I believe the problem exists in the U.S. as well.  Which is why I'm applauding DeSantis' efforts.  What objection do you have for finding the real cause?

Do you have any proof from anywhere the the BBC misstated the facts cited here?

You're the one who apparently believed that an uptick in the deaths of infants could possibly suggest something suspect about the way covid is reported?

Do you understand that the infants weren't vaccinated? 

So what's your point?

The BBC articles pointed to 2 possiblities. One was covid infection. And the other was an overload at hospitals. What is your problem with that?

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Sources pending review.  Now I've been told that if a source is not confirmed as reliable it can't be used.  Let's play by your rules.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fortunejournals.com

How Many Republicans Died Because the GOP Turned Against Vaccines?

Party leaders are unquestionably complicit in the premature deaths of their own supporters.

Unfortunately, this trend shows no signs of breaking. The anti-science messaging that fuels such a divide is popular with Republican leaders because it plays so well with their constituents. Far-right crowds cheer for missed vaccine targets and jokes about executing scientific leaders. In an environment where partisanship trumps all—including trying to save people’s lives—such messaging is both politically effective and morally abhorrent.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/12/covid-deaths-anti-vaccine-republican-voters/672575/

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you have any proof from anywhere the the BBC misstated the facts cited here?

You're the one who apparently believed that an uptick in the deaths of infants could possibly suggest something suspect about the way covid is reported?

Do you understand that the infants weren't vaccinated? 

So what's your point?

The BBC articles pointed to 2 possiblities. One was covid infection. And the other was an overload at hospitals. What is your problem with that?

I'll make an educated guess; it doesn't fit his narrative.

23 minutes ago, connda said:

For the Pro-Vaxx crowd: 
Keep getting your mRNA boosters on a regular basis. 
Safe and Effective! 

To the anti-vaccine crowd: Because you ignored the science, there was a higher rate of death among your cohort, than among those who got vaccinated. Is it really worth dying for your mistaken beliefs?

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I believe the CDC will be investigated by DeSantis.  Don't quote me on that because I can't find the source.  If/when I do I'll post it.  The CDC doesn't sport a halo above it's official insignia.  Of course any government official who supports the narrative of the left is beyond corruption.  That's a given assumption that's plain as fact.  Right?

You also believe that MRNA vaccines are gene therapy, fortunately that false post has now been removed so forgive in not sharing your sentiment on the data provided by CDC.

 

It happens to be a factual account of the historical data

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

How Many Republicans Died Because the GOP Turned Against Vaccines?

Party leaders are unquestionably complicit in the premature deaths of their own supporters.

Unfortunately, this trend shows no signs of breaking. The anti-science messaging that fuels such a divide is popular with Republican leaders because it plays so well with their constituents. Far-right crowds cheer for missed vaccine targets and jokes about executing scientific leaders. In an environment where partisanship trumps all—including trying to save people’s lives—such messaging is both politically effective and morally abhorrent.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/12/covid-deaths-anti-vaccine-republican-voters/672575/

So true. The only silver lining of this pitch back cloud are Darwin's principles of survival of the fittest. 

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

ANd a grand jury is the way to weigh scientific evidence?. Are they going to empanel a jury of 12 virologists and epidemiologists? You keep on coming up with nonsense. And more conspiracy theories about various media sources. 

This is to appease @Bkk Brian>

". . . conspiracy theory . . . "

Is that all you've got, placeholder?  Call everyone who disagrees with you a conspiracy theorist?  In essence, any opinion, any at all, which counters yours is automatically a conspiracy theory?  I hope you understand that I see right through that tactic.

Why don't you counter, in an intellectual, rational fashion, the other article I posted?  Or perhaps counter what's in the video I presented?  Or is it easier to use bully-boy schoolyard tactics of name calling?

Sen. Ron Johnson's panel provides a great deal of expert data and findings, and I hope DeSantis works with him.  Is there anything presented there that you disagree with, and over which we can have a rational debate?  Or aren't those allowed in your world?

Just now, Tippaporn said:

This is to appease @Bkk Brian>

". . . conspiracy theory . . . "

Is that all you've got, placeholder?  Call everyone who disagrees with you a conspiracy theorist?  In essence, any opinion, any at all, which counters yours is automatically a conspiracy theory?  I hope you understand that I see right through that tactic.

Why don't you counter, in an intellectual, rational fashion, the other article I posted?  Or perhaps counter what's in the video I presented?  Or is it easier to use bully-boy schoolyard tactics of name calling?

Sen. Ron Johnson's panel provides a great deal of expert data and findings, and I hope DeSantis works with him.  Is there anything presented there that you disagree with, and over which we can have a rational debate?  Or aren't those allowed in your world?

Whats that got to do with my post that you edited, deleted and took out of context, stop the trolling and baiting, its pathetic

Just now, Tippaporn said:

This is to appease @Bkk Brian>

". . . conspiracy theory . . . "

Is that all you've got, placeholder?  Call everyone who disagrees with you a conspiracy theorist?  In essence, any opinion, any at all, which counters yours is automatically a conspiracy theory?  I hope you understand that I see right through that tactic.

Why don't you counter, in an intellectual, rational fashion, the other article I posted?  Or perhaps counter what's in the video I presented?  Or is it easier to use bully-boy schoolyard tactics of name calling?

Sen. Ron Johnson's panel provides a great deal of expert data and findings, and I hope DeSantis works with him.  Is there anything presented there that you disagree with, and over which we can have a rational debate?  Or aren't those allowed in your world?

You claim that any media source that reports information you disagree with is extremely biased. You don't actually even address the facts.

I can't find the link to any article posted by you.

And as I've pointed out, Ron Johnson clearly doesnt even understand why it's invalid to use the VAERS the way he did. Link me to something he or his "experts" put in writing so I can debunk it.

I

41 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is laughable. Did you actually read this article? This actually establishes the contrary of what you believe. It's not about vaccinations or big pharma. It's about the possible undetected role that covid-19 played in the deaths of infants.

Here's a selection from it:

"Dr Sarah Stock, an expert in maternal and fetal health at University of Edinburgh, said it was rare for newborn babies to become infected or seriously-ill with Covid but she said the virus could be having an impact in other ways.

"We know, for instance, that when pregnant women have Covid they can become seriously unwell, and in order to protect the mother and baby that can lead to pre-term deliveries," she said. "Pre-term delivery is the biggest driver of neonatal mortality."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-59347464

She also goes on to cite the possiblity that stress on the hospital system due to covid may be responsible.

 

I look forward to your response.

"This actually establishes the contrary of what you believe."

 

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you have any proof from anywhere the the BBC misstated the facts cited here?

You're the one who apparently believed that an uptick in the deaths of infants could possibly suggest something suspect about the way covid is reported?

Do you understand that the infants weren't vaccinated? 

So what's your point?

The BBC articles pointed to 2 possiblities. One was covid infection. And the other was an overload at hospitals. What is your problem with that?

Read your own writing.  They have no proof, as I don't have proof.  But to you their "possibilities" "establish" that the vax is NOT the cause.  You honestly know neither but attempt to argue for your narrative anyway.

BTW, I never stated my beliefs either way.  There is most definitely a great number of deaths and adverse events taking place and I'm all for getting to the bottom of the causes.  Which is what DeSantis aims to do.  In heaven's name, why would you be so adamantly opposed to discovering the real truth about why we are experiencing so many unexplained deaths and destroyed lives?  Do you care?