DeSantis’s request for COVID vaccine probe denounced by health experts

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

This is to appease @Bkk Brian>

". . . conspiracy theory . . . "

Is that all you've got, placeholder?  Call everyone who disagrees with you a conspiracy theorist?  In essence, any opinion, any at all, which counters yours is automatically a conspiracy theory?  I hope you understand that I see right through that tactic.

Why don't you counter, in an intellectual, rational fashion, the other article I posted?  Or perhaps counter what's in the video I presented?  Or is it easier to use bully-boy schoolyard tactics of name calling?

Sen. Ron Johnson's panel provides a great deal of expert data and findings, and I hope DeSantis works with him.  Is there anything presented there that you disagree with, and over which we can have a rational debate?  Or aren't those allowed in your world?

I did go to this page to see who the members of Johnson's expert panel were.

Not one virologist or epidemiologics or medical statistician among them.

https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/2021/10/media-advisory-sen-johnson-holds-expert-panel-on-federal-vaccine-mandates-and-vaccine-injuries

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I believe the CDC will be investigated by DeSantis.  Don't quote me on that because I can't find the source.  If/when I do I'll post it.  The CDC doesn't sport a halo above it's official insignia.  Of course any government official who supports the narrative of the left is beyond corruption.  That's a given assumption that's plain as fact.  Right?

quote "That's a given assumption that's plain as fact.  Right?"

 

Perhaps it is, at least in your mind.

 

Though probably not in most peoples minds.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"This actually establishes the contrary of what you believe."

 

Read your own writing.  They have no proof, as I don't have proof.  But to you their "possibilities" "establish" that the vax is NOT the cause.  You honestly know neither but attempt to argue for your narrative anyway.

BTW, I never stated my beliefs either way.  There is most definitely a great number of deaths and adverse events taking place and I'm all for getting to the bottom of the causes.  Which is what DeSantis aims to do.  In heaven's name, why would you be so adamantly opposed to discovering the real truth about why we are experiencing so many unexplained deaths and destroyed lives?  Do you care?

Not sure what Desantis hopes to uncover in Scotland when his remit is “wrongdoing committed against Floridians related to the COVID-19 vaccine.”

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"This actually establishes the contrary of what you believe."

 

Read your own writing.  They have no proof, as I don't have proof.  But to you their "possibilities" "establish" that the vax is NOT the cause.  You honestly know neither but attempt to argue for your narrative anyway.

BTW, I never stated my beliefs either way.  There is most definitely a great number of deaths and adverse events taking place and I'm all for getting to the bottom of the causes.  Which is what DeSantis aims to do.  In heaven's name, why would you be so adamantly opposed to discovering the real truth about why we are experiencing so many unexplained deaths and destroyed lives?  Do you care?

The babies aren't vaccinated.

[riclag]

 “He suggested it would be in part aimed to jog loose more information from pharmaceutical companies about the vaccines and potential side effects”.

 

https://apnews.com/article/ron-desantis-health-florida-covid-f90dbf672338461457f6c30633398e90

 

Many of these big pharmaceuticals have immunity from prosecution in regards to the covid vax  so it would be very advantageous to see what other information they have or haven’t provided.

 

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You claim that any media source that reports information you disagree with is extremely biased. You don't actually even address the facts.

I can't find the link to any article posted by you.

And as I've pointed out, Ron Johnson clearly doesnt even understand why it's invalid to use the VAERS the way he did. Link me to something he or his "experts" put in writing so I can debunk it.

I

"You claim that any media source that reports information you disagree with is extremely biased."

Your putting words in my mouth.  I never said any of what you wrote.  I only said that Axios is extreme far left and that is a fact.  Such strong bias can never arrive at any truth.

"I can't find the link to any article posted by you."

Not true.  You found the link to the BBC article without a hitch.

"And as I've pointed out, Ron Johnson clearly doesnt even understand why it's invalid to use the VAERS the way he did. Link me to something he or his "experts" put in writing so I can debunk it."

Educate yourself.  Or is that a problem?  You refuse to watch the video but claim it's all "conspiracy theory" (. . . "so I can debunk it . . . " - conspiracy theory implied with that statement) without ever knowing the facts they present?  Am I dealing with a serious person here?

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"This actually establishes the contrary of what you believe."

 

Read your own writing.  They have no proof, as I don't have proof.  But to you their "possibilities" "establish" that the vax is NOT the cause.  You honestly know neither but attempt to argue for your narrative anyway.

BTW, I never stated my beliefs either way.  There is most definitely a great number of deaths and adverse events taking place and I'm all for getting to the bottom of the causes.  Which is what DeSantis aims to do.  In heaven's name, why would you be so adamantly opposed to discovering the real truth about why we are experiencing so many unexplained deaths and destroyed lives?  Do you care?

You clearly don't have a clue as to how medical statistics work. Do you understand that "adverse events" have no significance at all without comparing them to actual rates of disease. That there are medical statisticans who job it is to comb the VAERS and look of actual correlations among the ill .   There are reams of sophisticated mortality analysies that has been done about excess deaths. But, of course, if you claim that there is a reasonable possibility that these experts are liars and that the conclusions they draw from data are lies, what point is there in having an exchange with someone so clearly irrational?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

"You claim that any media source that reports information you disagree with is extremely biased."

Your putting words in my mouth.  I never said any of what you wrote.  I only said that Axios is extreme far left and that is a fact.  Such strong bias can never arrive at any truth.

"I can't find the link to any article posted by you."

Not true.  You found the link to the BBC article without a hitch.

"And as I've pointed out, Ron Johnson clearly doesnt even understand why it's invalid to use the VAERS the way he did. Link me to something he or his "experts" put in writing so I can debunk it."

Educate yourself.  Or is that a problem?  You refuse to watch the video but claim it's all "conspiracy theory" (. . . "so I can debunk it . . . " - conspiracy theory implied with that statement) without ever knowing the facts they present?  Am I dealing with a serious person here?

Can you find any media evaluator that calls Axios extreme far left? I looked and I couldn't. But maybe you'll dig one up. Here are the first four that I found:

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/axios

 

https://adfontesmedia.com/axios-bias-and-reliability/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/axios/

https://www.biasly.com/sources/axios-bias-rating/

 

I thought you were referring to another article. One that might support what you are claiming. 

 

Anybody who expects someone to devote so much of their time to looking at a video, is asking for way too much. Get me a link in writing to what was claimed in it. As I've noted, his claim about the significance of VAERS reports is BS.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"You claim that any media source that reports information you disagree with is extremely biased."

Your putting words in my mouth.  I never said any of what you wrote.  I only said that Axios is extreme far left and that is a fact.  Such strong bias can never arrive at any truth.

"I can't find the link to any article posted by you."

Not true.  You found the link to the BBC article without a hitch.

"And as I've pointed out, Ron Johnson clearly doesnt even understand why it's invalid to use the VAERS the way he did. Link me to something he or his "experts" put in writing so I can debunk it."

Educate yourself.  Or is that a problem?  You refuse to watch the video but claim it's all "conspiracy theory" (. . . "so I can debunk it . . . " - conspiracy theory implied with that statement) without ever knowing the facts they present?  Am I dealing with a serious person here?

First page of google, take your pick. "more covid deaths in red states" 

 

Continues into second page results if thats not enough for you.

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

 “He suggested it would be in part aimed to jog loose more information from pharmaceutical companies about the vaccines and potential side effects”.

 

https://apnews.com/article/ron-desantis-health-florida-covid-f90dbf672338461457f6c30633398e90

 

Many of these big pharmaceuticals have immunity from prosecution in regards to the covid vax  so it would be very advantageous to see what other information they have or haven’t provided.

 

‘Paramount importance’: Judge orders FDA to hasten release of Pfizer vaccine docs

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importance-judge-orders-fda-hasten-release-pfizer-vaccine-docs-2022-01-07/

There's an army of mostly volunteer experts and lawyers going through those documents and are finding extremely damning information.  They've also begun filing lawsuits based on the information they've uncovered.

Unfortunately the MSM doesn't cover that type of news so for most posters here that information is denied to them as the only sources that do report on any of those findings are labeled "conspiratorial sites."  How convenient if you want to hide the truth, eh?  If the NYT, WaPo, et al don't report on it then it didn't really happen, right? 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

‘Paramount importance’: Judge orders FDA to hasten release of Pfizer vaccine docs

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importance-judge-orders-fda-hasten-release-pfizer-vaccine-docs-2022-01-07/

There's an army of mostly volunteer experts and lawyers going through those documents and are finding extremely damning information.  They've also begun filing lawsuits based on the information they've uncovered.

Unfortunately the MSM doesn't cover that type of news so for most posters here that information is denied to them as the only sources that do report on any of those findings are labeled "conspiratorial sites."  How convenient if you want to hide the truth, eh?  If the NYT, WaPo, et al don't report on it then it didn't really happen, right? 

Good to know that Reuters isn't the MSM. 

What are they finding?

https://www.newswise.com/factcheck/the-newly-released-pfizer-documents-do-not-show-that-their-covid-19-vaccine-is-unsafe/?article_id=770451

And, as I recall, most of these documents actually have nothing at all to do with the research. Just a lot of invoices and typical corporate stuff. This was basically a nuisance suit. They could have just requested research and test result documents instead.

 

 

[JonnyF]

I don't see the harm in having a probe. If everything was fine with the vaccines, that is what the probe will show. It may even uncover information to help save lives in the event of a future pandemic. 

 

The fact that so many people are terrified of such an investigation is fascinating.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, Emdog said:

I guess Desantis missed the memo pointing out that the vaccines were developed while Trump was in office....

 

development has nothing to do with it.  It's the mandates to force people to get an experimental drug, to attend school or work that is the issue.

 

Vaccines effectiveness is very questionable ... IMHO

Seasonal flu vaccines average <40% effective over past 15ish years

(CDC stats)

Covid vaccine speaks for itself, obviously does NOT prevent infection.

... I don't accept new definition of vaccine ...

 

Chicken Pox, measles, mumps, and don't know many vaccinated that didn't at least have a case of chicken pox.  Polio vaccine seemed to actually work.  

 

Here's a report the ineffectiveness of influenza vaccines, and worse, more than a few years, the morbidity rate was higher among vaccinated ????

 

"However, among middle school students, morbidity was not lower in the vaccinated group than in the unvaccinated group in any of the 10 seasons. In fact, morbidity was significantly higher among the vaccinated middle school students than among the unvaccinated middle school students in 8 of the 10 years."

https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-022-07898-y#:~:text=According to the United States,–2015 season [2].

 

 

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

From touting that the vaccines are safe and effective to this vaccine probe. The conniving mini Trump saw the signals in early 2020 that a portion of the Republicans base was increasingly opposed to getting the shot. Trump was booed by some of the audience when he said he had received a covid-19 booster. To hell with people health and safety, it is purely political business and he is cashing in. 
 

But by the spring of 2021, the governor’s tone had changed. He stopped promoting the vaccine and started to elevate the narrative of vaccine skeptics. He sued CDC for imposing vaccine mandate. He followed with more policies against vaccines and masking. 

 

How is that the behavioral pattern of this man can fool some “intelligent”people that he is genuine in pushing this probe for the people for medical reasons. Baffle me. 

 

[candide]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I don't see the harm in having a probe. If everything was fine with the vaccines, that is what the probe will show. It may even uncover information to help save lives in the event of a future pandemic. 

 

The fact that so many people are terrified of such an investigation is fascinating.

Do you think this issue has not been investigated by scientists? That a politically motivated show will bring up any new reliable knowledge about it?

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

development has nothing to do with it.  It's the mandates to force people to get an experimental drug, to attend school or work that is the issue.

 

Vaccines effectiveness is very questionable ... IMHO

Seasonal flu vaccines average <40% effective over past 15ish years

(CDC stats)

Covid vaccine speaks for itself, obviously does NOT prevent infection.

... I don't accept new definition of vaccine ...

 

Chicken Pox, measles, mumps, and don't know many vaccinated that didn't at least have a case of chicken pox.  Polio vaccine seemed to actually work.  

 

Here's a report the ineffectiveness of influenza vaccines, and worse, more than a few years, the morbidity rate was higher among vaccinated ????

 

"However, among middle school students, morbidity was not lower in the vaccinated group than in the unvaccinated group in any of the 10 seasons. In fact, morbidity was significantly higher among the vaccinated middle school students than among the unvaccinated middle school students in 8 of the 10 years."

https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-022-07898-y#:~:text=According to the United States,–2015 season [2].

 

 

 

 

 

Seasonal flu vaccines average <40% effective over past 15ish years

(CDC stats)

Covid vaccine speaks for itself, obviously does NOT prevent infection.

... I don't accept new definition of vaccine ...

 

Flu vaccines also do not prevent infection, they do the same as covid vaccines, reduce symptoms, hospitalizations and deaths.

 

Influenza vaccine effectiveness in reducing severe outcomes over six influenza seasons

Vaccine Effectiveness: How Well Do Flu Vaccines Work?

[redwood1]

I support this guy 100%.......A major investigation of the vaxes should have happened long ago........Shine the light and watch the cockroaches scurry..

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I don't see the harm in having a probe. If everything was fine with the vaccines, that is what the probe will show. It may even uncover information to help save lives in the event of a future pandemic. 

 

The fact that so many people are terrified of such an investigation is fascinating.

Because they're opposed to invoking a grand jury to examine this issue, they're somehow terrified? Especially when the call for it is done by a governor who's obviously highly prejudiced?  What's really scary is  that there are apparently lots of people like you who think this is a rational statement re the healthcare community. "It's impossible to imagine that so many influential people came to this view on their own."

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, candide said:

Do you think this issue has not been investigated by scientists? That a politically motivated show will bring up any new reliable knowledge about it?

What are you so afraid of?

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because they're opposed to invoking a grand jury to examine this issue, they're somehow terrified? Especially when the call for it is done by a governor who's obviously highly prejudiced?  What's really scary is  that there are apparently lots of people like you who think this is a rational statement re the healthcare community. "It's impossible to imagine that so many influential people came to this view on their own."

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

 

Let them investigate fully.

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

 

Let them investigate fully.

You seem a person who put much thoughts in this subject. Like to hear your views as to why he change his position from strongly supporting vaccines to this abrupt change. 

[Eric Loh]

31 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

I support this guy 100%.......A major investigation of the vaxes should have happened long ago........Shine the light and watch the cockroaches scurry..

A long while ago, Trump initiated Operational Warp Speed to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing and distribution of covid-19 vaccines. You think that should be investigated? 

 

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You seem a person who put much thoughts in this subject. Like to hear your views as to why he change his position from strongly supporting vaccines to this abrupt change. 

I don't know and I don't care. I have no interest in DeSantis and I am not interested in the politics of it all, I'd like to know more about the vaccines that we were coerced into taking.

 

Any investigation is a positive thing as far as I am concerned. I have no time for people trying to deny a probe on political grounds. We need to know as much as possible about what happened and the health implications going forward.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

A long while ago, Trump initiated Operational Warp Speed to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing and distribution of covid-19 vaccines. You think that should be investigated? 

 

Oh OK I get it now. Like everything else, this is really about Trump as far as you are concerned.

 

Forget uncovering the truth, Orange Man Bad is far more important. 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I don't know and I don't care. I have no interest in DeSantis and I am not interested in the politics of it all, I'd like to know more about the vaccines that we were coerced into taking.

 

Any investigation is a positive thing as far as I am concerned. I have no time for people trying to deny a probe on political grounds. We need to know as much as possible about what happened and the health implications going forward.

An investigation is not possible without robust and in depth vaccine studies that take years and are already in process. A political witch hunt helps nobody.

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

An investigation is not possible without robust and in depth vaccine studies that take years and are already in process. A political witch hunt helps nobody.

Why put politics ahead of the health of the citizens? What are you so afraid of being discovered?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Why put politics ahead of the health of the citizens? What are you so afraid of being discovered?

Tell that to Desantis and the rest of the red states where there have been more covid deaths.

 

Who said I was afraid, that seems to be your favourite non response.........lol

[placeholder]

58 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

 

Let them investigate fully.

It's bad enough using a grand jury to make scientific judgements. But given the ridiculously biased comments of the governor, I think we have a pretty good idea of the quality of the case the State of Florida will make.

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I don't know and I don't care. I have no interest in DeSantis and I am not interested in the politics of it all, I'd like to know more about the vaccines that we were coerced into taking.

 

Any investigation is a positive thing as far as I am concerned. I have no time for people trying to deny a probe on political grounds. We need to know as much as possible about what happened and the health implications going forward.

But all time in the world for a probe taken on political grounds?

[candide]

34 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I don't know and I don't care. I have no interest in DeSantis and I am not interested in the politics of it all, I'd like to know more about the vaccines that we were coerced into taking.

 

Any investigation is a positive thing as far as I am concerned. I have no time for people trying to deny a probe on political grounds. We need to know as much as possible about what happened and the health implications going forward.

If you are so eager to know, then why don't you start by reading scientific publications about it? A large amount of data is already available, and has been investigated. Some links have been already provided in this thread.

 

Here's a meta-analysis of the different studies. It also references most of the scientific studies made so far.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/12/2/e050278

 

As mentioned by Bkk Brian, it takes long time to do a serious scientific investigation, such as the one I linked, and to have a Grand Jury making this assessment instead of scientists is a joke.