Chiang Mai losing its appeal—how to manage? [long post/discussion]

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, araiwaja said:

Decided to spend 3 months up north this year to cool off. Headed to good old Chiang Mai and stayed at a hotel off center for a few nights. Plan was to use those days to find a home. However after experiencing the current levels of bumper to bumper traffic and hordes of tourists, I quickly decided against it. Giving Chiang Rai a try currently. I miss COVID time, everywhere was so much better then. 

If tourists are the problem try Lamphun. Close enough to C M, and plenty of restaurants, Bic C mall etc.

[Adumbration]

OP.  Why the novella?  Why didn't you just write:

 

Chiang Mai is now getting busy at high season.  Any tips for dealing with it?

[daveAustin]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

The good ol' "just leave if you don't like it," from someone who is unwell with criticism. ????

So you're complaining about people complaining?

Wouldn't that be complaining, but on top of that also being hypocritical?

Well they’re right; if you’re miserable  why hang around? CM has always been busy—you’re too used to covid days and likely also long in the tooth. I left around 10y ago, and yes one of the reasons being getting busy. But your rant on tourists causing accidents… F a doodle doo! You do realise Thailand has one of the worlds worst road traffic accident statistics? They do very well all by themselves, including where I live which has very few tourists. 

Others whining about smoke who don’t even live there… it’s one of the best places for temperatures / clear skies at this time of year. 
 

Seriously, op, rather than stress & whine about legitimate visitors living their lives and having fun, all the while raising your blood pressure, just move on because the tourist situation will only burgeon from now, esp with Beijing lowering its guard. 

[roo860]

7 hours ago, araiwaja said:

Decided to spend 3 months up north this year to cool off. Headed to good old Chiang Mai and stayed at a hotel off center for a few nights. Plan was to use those days to find a home. However after experiencing the current levels of bumper to bumper traffic and hordes of tourists, I quickly decided against it. Giving Chiang Rai a try currently. I miss COVID time, everywhere was so much better then. 

Was that to buy a home or rent one?

[freedomnow]

CM is dull without tourists. i see no issue...being there just as restrictions lifted = it was awful this year without them/us.

 

Go live in forest..done.

[Northstar1]

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

This year we had no toxic air, but 2 weeks of slightly smokey.

Just because you can see across the street doesn’t make it safe!

[GammaGlobulin]

Great Topic. 

 

The OP's intro to this topic is too short for my taste. 

 

But, in reply, and in short:

 

The only solution to the Accidental Tourist is the Next Pandemic. 

 

 

[BigStar]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:42 PM, ThLT said:

Thai people live and work here, university students go to school to study and earn a living. There is a large percentage of parents without the financial capacity to buy a car who take their children to and from school almost every single day on a motorbike.

'Course, without the tourist industry, those Thais might not have tuition, jobs, or motorbikes. They can move if they wish. They don't need to you to engage in phony hand wringing in their behalf.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 8:42 PM, ThLT said:

When a tourist dies on Thai roads, which also involves the death of a local, notice that almost never is it mentioned that a Thai person also died in the accident. The sole cause of the accident was not the tourist without a license/experience, no, it's always how dangerous Thai roads are.

Nonsense. Notice is definitely taken of the Thai. And accidents are reported in the Thai press you don't read on ANF. You reading the Thai news?

 

And the cause of the accident is usually "under investigation." A witness may be quoted. It's usually our ace ANF Driving Instructors, Accident Investigators, and general bashers who hop on the danger of Thai roads; or it may be thrown in as editorial marketing comment to suck in the usual reliable keyboard warriors, such as yourself, who absolutely love this sort of thing.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 8:42 PM, ThLT said:

It feels like Chiang Mai is an international tourist attraction to them. Smiling locals with tasty food and alcohol, having no significance past that, being part of that attraction. A jungle zoo, with cheap booze, coffee and now legal cannabis. Many tourists walk like they own the place, because they paid for a plane ticket and they have a few tourist dollars to hand out to locals.

It feels like what it is: an international tourist attraction. Maybe expats such as yourself should wear special EXPAT badges to alert tourists to act more humble in your Presence. 

 

On 12/29/2022 at 8:42 PM, ThLT said:

I've now come to the realization that Chiang Mai, for multiple months per year, is basically a semi-tourist city.

Rip Van Winkle, eh? How many years ago did you fall asleep?

 

On 12/29/2022 at 8:42 PM, ThLT said:

I'm having a difficult time with the current numbers of tourists, but triple or even quadruple that, and I don't know how I'll be able to manage or still like living in Chiang Mai.

 

Oh, move to Pattaya and toughen up. Consider it a kind of boot camp. Go back ready to face those wimpy Chiang Mai tourists with a smile.

 

 

[digbeth]

And the Chinese hasn't even came back yet, This week, the Bangkok hoards invade, and in about 2 weeks time, the Chinese, watch OP's head explode then if he had got used to the tourist situation in 2020-21

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

 

 

I think of myself as a "Pattaya" , but if I am being honest with myself I am more like a "Chiang Mai"..........................then I see a reflection of myself in a shop window and I see  a "Hua Hin "  ????

[ThLT]

9 hours ago, BigStar said:

'Course, without the tourist industry, those Thais might not have tuition, jobs, or motorbikes. They can move if they wish. They don't need to you to engage in phony hand wringing in their behalf.

I'm not talking about tourists in general. lol I'm talking about tourists illegally renting a motorbike without a license. What does that account to Chiang Mai's tourist revenue, 0.00000000000000000000000000000001%? ????????

 

9 hours ago, BigStar said:

Nonsense. Notice is definitely taken of the Thai. And accidents are reported in the Thai press you don't read on ANF. You reading the Thai news?

I'm talking about how motorbike deaths are reported and discussed abroad. Cause of the accident is always "Thai roads are dangerous," not "he barely rode a motorcycle before going to Thailand and crashed and killed a Thai local."

[In Full Agreement]

19 hours ago, seedy said:

No problem with criticism.

Problem lies with the eternal P and M from people too, well ... "Challenged" to improve their lives in the face of such appalling air quality, traffic, and hordes of tourists.

Truth be told - most posting negatives - I hazard - do not even live here, have NEVER lived here, and posting from a foreign country.

Or - as said - just may well be 'Old Women' masquerading as residents.

 

You are too funny.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Northstar1 said:

Just because you can see across the street doesn’t make it safe!

Millions live in the area ( up north ). They ain't all sick or dying, are they?

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Great Topic. 

 

The OP's intro to this topic is too short for my taste. 

 

But, in reply, and in short:

 

The only solution to the Accidental Tourist is the Next Pandemic. 

 

 

Probably not too long to wait for it. The only question is whether any government is brave ( or stupid ) enough to impose lockdown again?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, freedomnow said:

CM is dull without tourists. i see no issue...being there just as restrictions lifted = it was awful this year without them/us.

 

Go live in forest..done.

I liked it dull. I avoided places with lots of tourists, eg the night  market near Tha Phae gate, like the plague.

[GammaGlobulin]

10 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Great Topic. 

 

The OP's intro to this topic is too short for my taste. 

 

But, in reply, and in short:

 

The only solution to the Accidental Tourist is the Next Pandemic. 

 

 

Sorry. 

 

Typo. 

 

I meant the Occidental Tourist. 

 

[BananaStrong]

I'm too old to stay out until 4 am!!!!     I love it quiet!!! dull.  not ONE word!!!!   not one baby, dog, cat, music, construction, karaoke, festival, motorbikes racing, cars, birds  nothing!!!!

 

when I get to my massage shop, not one more Falang!!!!

 

I wonder what age the negatively creeps in and gets worse and worse?  I'm guessing about 45.    

 

Listen depressed falangs................................it's a battle, a mental disease, you must actively fight it all day, embrace humans and forgive everyone and every soi dog and realize you are HERE....... 

 

Oh, I'm not in Thailand.  I'm in Hawaii in a 10 million dollar mansion, but I try to relate to the CM falangs who eventually realize the world has taken them for a ride and the bitterness is greater than Mt. Everest!!!   lol.     

[VillageIdiot]

33 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Sorry. 

 

Typo. 

 

I meant the Occidental Tourist. 

 

Let it go Gamma...

   No big difference.

[GammaGlobulin]

Does anybody still recall the good old days, April, 2020, when we were warned to either immediately return to our "home countries", or, prepare to "shelter-in-place"? 

 

I feel such nostalgia, already. 

 

During those days, anytime I rarely saw another farang on the streets, I almost felt halfway inclined to smile at one, or two. 

 

It was, like, I almost felt some sort of liking for them, like. 

 

And then, about six months ago, I saw my first backpacker in my neighborhood. 

 

And then, it was, like, this relative paradise, too fleeting as I had always realized it must be, was quickly coming to its sad end. 

 

I don't know whether or not you might have also felt the same pangs of what I would term, the end of innocence, when you first espied your first returning backpacker to Chiang Mai. 

 

In Florida, years ago, we used to have a name for them, the tourists. 

 

I used to live in Naples, Florida, many years ago. Naples was a jewel of a place, just like Chiang Mai. 

 

And then, the snowbirds began flying in. 

 

And then, the snowbirds came to roost. 

 

And then, the snowbirds invited their developer friends. 

 

And, before you knew it, Naples, Florida became, not a jewel, but a tourist trap for uncouth newly rich with strange habits. 

 

I could go on, but, thankfully, the OP has already gone on about the real impacts of rampant, unbridled growth of improperly vetted tourists. 

 

Please just check out Naples, FL, if you want. And everybody knows that Naples was the last safe haven for those seeking what all tourists are seeking. 

 

Fortunately, Chiang Mai is a big place. As the tourists continue to increase, farang who prefer a more traditional Lanna style of life will move elsewhere. 

 

What does Lanna mean, anyway? 

 

I tink Lan means million. Maybe Na means field. Million Fields? 

 

There may be plans to build a second airport here to dramatically increase tourism. 

 

So if you create a gateway for 25 million tourists per year, here, then there might be 25 tourists for each field. 

 

Maybe, someday, Chiang Mai will become like Vancouver. So many rich tourists and so many rich foreigners, that nobody will be able to live here, anymore. 

 

Chiang Mai is such an amazing place. Naples, Florida once was an amazing place. 

 

Nobody can predict the future. 

 

Impossible to live in the past, probably. 

 

No worries, because, there is always Luxembourg. 

 

 

 

 

[orang37]

21 hours ago, seedy said:

... just may well be 'Old Women' masquerading as residents.

AFAIK, everyone here is masquerading as somebody, or something, else.

 

I find it difficult to figure out who, or what, I am masquerading as at any given moment, as I read posts on this forum ... even more difficult to locate where, and when, I am, and how I got here from whatever there was.

 

I'm not complaining: I love living in (whatever) Chiang Mai; I think these fluctuations of identity/reality are one of the key features that make me feel so at home here.

 

There's a simple practice that helps me really enjoy each day here: stand in front of a mirror when you wake up, and repeat the mantra: "gajok gohok" (Thai words for mirror and liar) until the you that appears in the mirror is what feels right.

 

This practice helps develop the inner chameleon and the attitude suggested by Groucho Marx: 'Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others' 

 

cheers, ~o:37;

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, VillageIdiot said:

Let it go Gamma...

   No big difference.

Big difference to William Hurt. 

William Hurt gave me a Big Chill in his performance in Body Heat. 

 

Accidental Tourist garnered 4 Academy Award nominations. 

 

Just saying... 

 

 

[mania]

I recently posted something similar but we have already moved away in 2016

Visited 2018 & 2019 still seemed ok but upon returning this year found Chiang Mai to be really different

But yeah CM...they paved paradise & put up a parking lot

 

About the tourists on scooters only way that will change is when scooter renters start requiring scooter/motorcycle license from the tourists country. (so that will NEVER happen ???? )

Too many tourist have the silly notion the worlds most dangerous roads would be a good place to try scooter riding without any experience

 

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, ThLT said:

I'm not talking about tourists in general. lol

Oh, but you are. 

 

Chiang Mai, on the other hand, is somewhat inundated by tourists in specific parts of the city (in many cases leading to gentrification).

 

There is no going into these areas without seeing digital nomads in every coffee shop, drinking only one or two cups of coffee, and typing away at their laptop for almost the whole day. . . . 

 

Causing deaths!

 

There are also tourists jaywalking everywhere . . . .

 

And even more, some don't even wear a helmet.

 

Many tourists walk like they own the place, because they paid for a plane ticket and they have a few tourist dollars to hand out to locals. . . .

 

hordes of Chinese tourists . . . .

 

And so, not liking tourists in general, scapegoating the supposedly unlicensed tourists driving motorbikes as the raison d'etre.

 

Actually, you dunno how many are driving w/o licenses or, more importantly, are totally incompetent to drive. You been complaining about unlicensed Thais? Are there any of those?????

 

In general, I find farang poorer drivers of both cars and bikes than Thais in relation to their percentage of the population. I tend to move away from them in traffic if possible.

 

However, if you have a big influx of tourists or drivers into an area, more accidents or near accidents will of course happen. In Pattaya, same thing during holiday weekends when hordes of Thais flood in.

 

And the major cause isn't lack of a driver's license. You're attaching way too much importance to that paper. It's excessive speed and drinking. All our ace ANF Driving Instructors and Traffic Accident Investigators know this and always carefully point it out while sneering at any finger pointing. They love to look for a lack of a helmet, just as you do.

 

Still, most accidents are Thai-on-Thai. You don't complain at all about those not being reported, specifically, with names. And anyone who does a cursory google will see that Thailand's traffic accident rate is the highest in the world.

 

4 hours ago, ThLT said:

What does that account to Chiang Mai's tourist revenue,

All those tourists you don't like, that is, the non-servile, do indeed account for most of the revenue. Your Approved Tourists™

 

 

have mostly run out of pesos and aren't coming in large numbers.

 

4 hours ago, ThLT said:

I'm talking about how motorbike deaths are reported and discussed abroad. Cause of the accident is always "Thai roads are dangerous," not "he barely rode a motorcycle before going to Thailand and crashed and killed a Thai local."

Oh, were you? But ANF has a lot of readers abroad.

 

The details of a tourist's driving skill in his own country would only be known to his friends and relatives back home, and only of interest, if at all, to a very local community. If discussing it in an article begging for money, they of course will blame Thais and Thailand to portray their beloved as a victim.

 

And on this forum, even when the farang is clearly at fault, the members will still attempt to blame the Thai and Thailand, esp. if he's one of our Brit "lads."

 

And we also have sufficient cases reported of expats and skilled motorbike riders (one not too long ago) causing accidents or simply crashing. You don't mention any of those; why's that? ????

 

Pattaya's waitin' for you. Now what you'd surely find gratifying is to sit at a bar near the police checkpoint at Beach Rd. & Soi 9 and watch the BIB stopping tourists and checking their papers--and sending them into the station to pay fines.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

Respectfully:

 

I just wish all us malcontents could find a place to live together, preferably in peace and harmony, someplace not too far north of the city, and close to the mountains, a place where like-minded could live in fairly close proximity, yet not cheek by jowl. 

 

For example, I have nada against living with other farang, or anyone, who share my values. 

 

If only there was a PLACE, a small community in CM, north of the city, populated by people who are diverse in knowledge, rich in wisdom, respectful of erudition, yet totally coherant concerning their beliefs about what is crucial for maintaining a happy, healthy, and fairly stress-free community life, but not a commune, and not a utopia, per se. 

 

What I am talking about is just the type of community that we learned about when we read the adventures of Mana Manee. 

 

I am a big fan of Mana Manee. And, it's often the case that I just want to jump into Mani's world when I come across the beautiful illustrations. 

 

So sorrowful to know, however, her world was the Thailand of 1978. 

 

It's not as if I was not in Thailand even before Mani was born. 

 

And, so, anyway, if you might know of a community of people, fairly like-minded to me, not too far north, then please let me know. 

 

My interests include anthropology, experimental psychology, philology, Chinese language, Classical Chinese, Thai language, the Natural Sciences, including polymerization of polimers and DNA, Thai food, Chinese food, authentic Italian food, and John Coltrane. 

 

I don't take to tourists, easily; they are here today, gone tomorrow, which I think is the REAL meaning of the Topic. 

 

Digital Nomads are maddening, sometimes, in the same way,here today, maybe in Crete, tomorrow. 

 

Sorry. Just one more thing... I forgot to mention General Intelligence. I would like to find a living arrangement in which the community has an average IQ of 130, not too bright, and not too dim. So-called emotional IQ is equally important, and so no Edvard Munches, preferably. 

 

Regarding house cats, I love them. Dogs, are acceptable, but no huskies. 

 

Farm animals of any description are strictly taboo, except for llamas. 

 

Chiang Mai, just like Naples used to be, is a wonderful place. As everybody knows, there is simply no place in Asia better than Chiang Mai. Hopefully, this truism will remain valid for, at least, the next decade. After that, I will no longer be of this world. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Wishing everyone in Chiang Mai, and everyone in Thailand, a magnificent, blessed and fruitful New Year. 

 

And, to my Chinese friends, Happy Lunar New Year on the 28th, I think. 

 

Best, 

Gamma 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThLT]

10 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Oh, but you are. 

 

Chiang Mai, on the other hand, is somewhat inundated by tourists in specific parts of the city (in many cases leading to gentrification).

 

There is no going into these areas without seeing digital nomads in every coffee shop, drinking only one or two cups of coffee, and typing away at their laptop for almost the whole day. . . . 

 

Causing deaths!

 

There are also tourists jaywalking everywhere . . . .

 

And even more, some don't even wear a helmet.

 

Many tourists walk like they own the place, because they paid for a plane ticket and they have a few tourist dollars to hand out to locals. . . .

 

hordes of Chinese tourists . . . .

 

And so, not liking tourists in general, scapegoating the supposedly unlicensed tourists driving motorbikes as the raison d'etre.

 

Actually, you dunno how many are driving w/o licenses or, more importantly, are totally incompetent to drive. You been complaining about unlicensed Thais? Are there any of those?????

 

In general, I find farang poorer drivers of both cars and bikes than Thais in relation to their percentage of the population. I tend to move away from them in traffic if possible.

 

However, if you have a big influx of tourists or drivers into an area, more accidents or near accidents will of course happen. In Pattaya, same thing during holiday weekends when hordes of Thais flood in.

 

And the major cause isn't lack of a driver's license. You're attaching way too much importance to that paper. It's excessive speed and drinking. All our ace ANF Driving Instructors and Traffic Accident Investigators know this and always carefully point it out while sneering at any finger pointing. They love to look for a lack of a helmet, just as you do.

 

Still, most accidents are Thai-on-Thai. You don't complain at all about those not being reported, specifically, with names. And anyone who does a cursory google will see that Thailand's traffic accident rate is the highest in the world.

 

All those tourists you don't like, that is, the non-servile, do indeed account for most of the revenue. Your Approved Tourists™

 

 

have mostly run out of pesos and aren't coming in large numbers.

 

Oh, were you? But ANF has a lot of readers abroad.

 

The details of a tourist's driving skill in his own country would only be known to his friends and relatives back home, and only of interest, if at all, to a very local community. If discussing it in an article begging for money, they of course will blame Thais and Thailand to portray their beloved as a victim.

 

And on this forum, even when the farang is clearly at fault, the members will still attempt to blame the Thai and Thailand, esp. if he's one of our Brit "lads."

 

And we also have sufficient cases reported of expats and skilled motorbike riders (one not too long ago) causing accidents or simply crashing. You don't mention any of those; why's that? ????

 

Pattaya's waitin' for you. Now what you'd surely find gratifying is to sit at a bar near the police checkpoint at Beach Rd. & Soi 9 and watch the BIB stopping tourists and checking their papers--and sending them into the station to pay fines.

 

 

 

Wow, you really have time to waste. You wrote a reply to my comment as long as my OP. With a picture on top of that.

Didn't read past the first paragraph.

[sqwakvfr]

Well this is my perspective.  Have been in CNX fulltime for 7 years.  Everything ThLt said is true.  I have stayed in CNX for one main reason:  The Cost of living and medical/dental is very low.  With that i have to accept some negative things.  There is no "paradise" or perfect place to live.  For me and for now CNX is the place.  I leave LOS at least once and now with border restrictions being lifted twice a year.  I need this change of scenery to maintain my sanity. 

 

Last week I spent a few days in Singapore.  A place where just about everyone obeys laws.  Drivers obey traffic laws, motorcycle riders wear helmets and where safety is a priority.  Heck my hotel room even had a smoke detector and overhead sprinklers for fire protection.  Has anyone ever seen this two things in LOS. But one pays a lot for the comfort of staying in a safe place.  Three days in SIngapore was equivalent to a 10 day stay in CNX.  

 

Maybe a change of scenery in a different country could help out.  Everytime I land back in BKK or CNX it feels like a new experience.  I am usually fine for at least 6 months and then I have "get out of town".

 

These are just my thoughts and my perspective on CNX. 

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, BananaStrong said:

I wonder what age the negatively creeps in and gets worse and worse?  I'm guessing about 45. 

I'm guessing after your first divorce!

[Yorkshire Tea]

Much prefer western tourists to the hordes from Bangkok that turn up for New Year & all the 3 day weekends ????

[freedomnow]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I liked it dull. I avoided places with lots of tourists, eg the night  market near Tha Phae gate, like the plague.

Me too, i just meant generally when it's like a tumbleweed town inside the moat with almost no foreigners it was awful...one extreme to another.

[whereyougo]

Time for the nursing home dude. Lots of warm milk and Scrabble and safety!