Top Thai virologist says if you’re healthy “you can ditch the face mask”

[edwardandtubs]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You managed to find a study by an avowed anti-COVID vaccine doctor -- Tracy Beth Høeg -- who's working with the anti-COVID vaccine and COVID skeptic state of Florida Health Department, which recently has been trashed for putting out bogus COVID vaccine research:

 

"Tracy Beth Høeg, M.D., Ph.D. is an epidemiologist currently doing COVID-19 vaccine research with the Florida Department of Health and a physician in private practice in California."

 

https://www.tabletmag.com/contributors/tracy-beth-hoeg

 

That's one bio description of her. But others make it clear that she's primarily a sports medicine doctor with an interest in something called "othobiologic medicine."

 

"She then completed her residency in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at UC Davis, where she was Chief Resident, followed by a fellowship in Interventional Sports, Spine and Regenerative Medicine in Napa, California.

 

Dr. Høeg is highly qualified to treat disorders and injuries of musculoskeletal system such as tendon, joint, cartilage and bone as well as disorders of the spine which can cause neck, back and sciatica pain. Additionally, she is highly qualified to diagnose conditions of the peripheral nervous system and musculoskeletal system using EMG/NCS and diagnostic ultrasound."

 

https://www.norcalorthoassociates.com/team/hoeg.php

 

Doctors sue to block California COVID disinformation law

"The plaintiff doctors have been vocal in the debate over pandemic health policy, pushing back publicly on school guidance and mandates. Duriseti and Dr. Tracy Beth Høeg are affiliated with the “Urgency of Normal” group that in June urged the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to dial back school guidance to minimize disruptions from quarantines and end vaccine mandates."

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/11/14/doctors-sue-to-block-california-covid-disinformation-law/

 

Experts slam Florida surgeon general’s warning on coronavirus vaccines

 

‘If you submitted that to a peer-reviewed journal ... it would get rejected,’ vaccine safety expert says about study on which it is based

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/10/11/florida-surgeon-general-ladapo-covid-vaccines/

 

 

There's quite an industry of fringe academics who write all kinds of junk related to COVID and COVID vaccines and/or produce low-quality research that's published in low-quality journals... including academics who opine on topics that have nothing to do with their field...

 

Such as Ambarish Chandra, the co-author with Hoeg on the study on masks, who's actually an economics professor:

 

"Ambarish Chandra, an economics professor at the University of Toronto Scarborough..."

 

https://www.chroniclejournal.com/news/national/social-media-tools-were-key-to-freedom-convoy-protest-expert-tells-inquiry/article_81175b13-6c73-549f-894f-fe0de1a177f8.html

 

Not exactly the kind of expertise you'd want to bring to bear on issues relating to public health and COVID.

 

 

 

Well that was a highly selective response. You totally ignored the first two studies. What's your response to them? And then you used non-scientific sources to "trash" the third source, without any reference to the actual evidence. Is that what you mean by following "the science"?

[248900_1469958220]

Everyone at my work got all the shots....wore masks religiously and they ALL got Covid at least once. They got a freaking sore throat, fever and some had a bit of a cough...This whole thing has been the biggest swindle in human history. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Everyone at my work got all the shots....wore masks religiously and they ALL got Covid at least once. They got a freaking sore throat, fever and some had a bit of a cough...This whole thing has been the biggest swindle in human history. 

 You might -- but probably won't -- stop to consider that perhaps the reason everyone at your work who got vaccinated and later ended up getting mild cases of COVID escaped relatived unscathed was exactly because they HAD been vaccinated...

 

In the current Omicron world, the current vaccines at far more effective at keeping COVID cases alive and out of the hospital than they are at preventing infections. Yes, the shots still help somewhat prevent infections, especially if the person has received the newer bivalent vaccines recently... But that protection against mere infection is not 100%, and does tend to wane substantially by several months after the latest shot.

 

However, the protection from the vaccines against COVID death and serious illness has been shown to be more substantial and durable, even with the newer Omicron variants.

 

So far from your "biggest swindle in human history," the vaccines during the course of the pandemic have kept many millions of people alive who otherwise would have died from COVID. And perhaps your co-workers are among them.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For example:

 

For the United States:

Report: COVID-19 vaccines saved US $1.15 trillion, 3 million lives

December 14, 2022

 

A Commonwealth Fund study estimates that, through November 2022, COVID-19 vaccines prevented more than 18.5 million US hospitalizations and 3.2 million deaths and saved the country $1.15 trillion.

 

The modeling study estimated hospitalizations and deaths averted through the end of November 2022, at a time when 80% of the US population had received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine.

...

"Without vaccination the U.S. would have experienced 1.5 times more infections, 3.8 times more hospitalizations, and 4.1 times more deaths," the authors wrote.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/report-covid-19-vaccines-saved-us-115-trillion-3-million-lives

 

For the world:

 

COVID-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in 1 year

June 24, 2022

 

COVID vaccines reduced the potential global death toll during the pandemic by almost two-thirds in their first year, saving an estimated 19.8 million lives, according to a mathematical modeling study yesterday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases.

 

An additional 600,000 lives could have been spared if a World Health Organization (WHO) goal of vaccinating 40% of the population of every country by the end of 2021 had been met, the authors of the study say.

...

...the model estimated that vaccination prevented 14.4 million deaths, or 79%. When they accounted for under-reporting, however, they found that COVID vaccination prevented an estimated 19.8 million deaths out of a total of 31.4 million potential deaths that would have occurred without vaccination—a reduction of 63%.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19-vaccines-saved-estimated-20-million-lives-1-year

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SiSePuede419]

Vaccines+ Boosters >> Herd immunity >> Masks

 

 

 

 

 

[kimamey]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:21 AM, Moonlover said:

Thanks Dr. Yong. It's high time someone spoke up with a bit of common sense on this issue.

Unfortunately I don't think he's the one as he doesn't seem to understand how masks work.

 

From all the evidence I've seen the masks generally used will reduce the chance of being infected but because any contamination will be on the front of the mask and possibly get transferred to the mouth and nose then the reduction is small. I don't think the masks are a complete barrier anyway. The main advantage of masks is they cut the chance of an infected person passing the virus. If you put your hand in front of your mouth and breath out or cough you'll be able to feel it. With a mask on you might feel a little when you cough but the flow of air is reduced thereby reducing the transmission of any virus.

 

I still wear one in closed places and in crowds but otherwise I tend not to as with enough space then it should be safe enough. To be honest I often forget I've got it on and end up walking down an empty street  with it

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

The vaccines did not stop the spread and neither did the masks.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-england-54d29ae3af5c700f15d704c14ee224b5

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/13/health/covid-19-vaccines-study/index.html

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/do-face-shields-protect-against-covid-19-a-mask-and-shield-explainer/2020/11

 

I will go with the scientific data rather than some no-name on the internet who appears to know little. 

[PCUSHING]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-england-54d29ae3af5c700f15d704c14ee224b5

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/13/health/covid-19-vaccines-study/index.html

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/do-face-shields-protect-against-covid-19-a-mask-and-shield-explainer/2020/11

 

I will go with the scientific data rather than some no-name on the internet who appears to know little. 

Just like yourself then.

I would think there would be differences of opinion even within the global scientific community.

I have been told Covid is firmly in the rear view mirror in the UK and Europe.

Even China has done a 360 degree turn and is telling the rest of the world to move on, nothing to see here.

Big brother adopting this attitude will be to the benefit of quickening global supply chains and restoring demand to the global economy.

Pity our little band of pensioner expats on this board couldn't move on, instead of being scared of their own shadows on a daily basis.

It's truly pathetic.

 

[Sheryl]

No matter what the Thai government announces there appears to be no convincing Thais to take the masks off, at least nto out where I am.

 

Even people walking alone down completely deserted roads. They all have a mask on, still.

 

It is only a minor annoyance now but I really really hope it stops before the hot season sets in.

[rumak]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:34 PM, peter zwart said:

Wow, someone is finally waking up
 

actually..... seems like a Lot of the posters here who tried to belittle those whose "sources" were previously deemed not reliable..... are waking up.    No apoligies , of course.

The "facts"  are still the same.   Just the "misinformation spreaders"  have been reversed 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, PCUSHING said:

 

Just like yourself then.

I would think there would be differences of opinion even within the global scientific community.

I have been told Covid is firmly in the rear view mirror in the UK and Europe.

Even China has done a 360 degree turn and is telling the rest of the world to move on, nothing to see here.

Big brother adopting this attitude will be to the benefit of quickening global supply chains and restoring demand to the global economy.

Pity our little band of pensioner expats on this board couldn't move on, instead of being scared of their own shadows on a daily basis.

It's truly pathetic.

A nothing response....... empty of facts when there are so many you could have brought to the table... like China's about turn that has cost them 60,000 lives. By the way, an about turn is 180 degrees not 360 degrees.... great demonstration of putting little thought in one's post!!

'Big brother'... I do not see what that reference is about... !

[Tippaporn]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-england-54d29ae3af5c700f15d704c14ee224b5

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/13/health/covid-19-vaccines-study/index.html

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/do-face-shields-protect-against-covid-19-a-mask-and-shield-explainer/2020/11

 

I will go with the scientific data rather than some no-name on the internet who appears to know little. 

Whose scientific data?  And how do you know the scientific data that you do go by is any good?  Is it only good because you've been told it's good.  Likely.  Still, how do you account for opposing scientific data other that to perhaps call it pseudo-science and dismiss it?  Would you, on your own, be able to tell the difference?  Not likely.

The above questions are for all of those here who think they know what's what because they "go with the science."  In truth, they go with what they go with only because they trust they're not being lied to.  In other words, they go on faith.  That's about it.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Tippaporn

[rumak]

24 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The above questions are for all of those here who think they know what's what because they "go with the science."  In truth, they go with what they go with only because they trust they're not being lied to.  In other words, they go on faith.  That's about it.

I used to, like most people, trust what the governments and media said .   But when I felt something was not true , and history showed how many lies governments and big companies have told ....then i started to read different opinions .    When one side tries to silence other opinions....... that is a big red flag .  The greatest trick someone in the wrong tries to pull is putting the blame on someone else. 

Ahh,  and then the "misinformation"  and name calling.   

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, rumak said:

I used to, like most people, trust what the governments and media said .   But when I felt something was not true , and history showed how many lies governments and big companies have told ....then i started to read different opinions .    When one side tries to silence other opinions....... that is a big red flag .  The greatest trick someone in the wrong tries to pull is putting the blame on someone else. 

Ahh,  and then the "misinformation"  and name calling.   

When you find out that governments and media are not the truth tellers you thought they were then the game changes.

[rattlesnake]

I'm with Fauci on this one:

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci wrote in February 2020 that store-bought face masks would not be very effective at protecting against the COVID-19 pandemic and advised a traveler not to wear one.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703

[transam]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

I'm with Fauci on this one:

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci wrote in February 2020 that store-bought face masks would not be very effective at protecting against the COVID-19 pandemic and advised a traveler not to wear one.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703

Do they stop cough spit from circulating....?

[Red Phoenix]

46 minutes ago, transam said:

Do they stop cough spit from circulating....?

No, the mask keeps the cough spit nice and cozy near your mouth and nose - making masks the ideal breeding ground for bacteria...

Edited January 18, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

No, the mask keeps the cough spit nice and cozy near your mouth and nose - making masks the ideal breeding ground for bacteria...

For the individual, not Joe Bloggs sitting next to you on a bus...

[pomchop]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:50 PM, Mickeymaus said:

The headline is misleading. He also said 

 

"The virologist adds that adults with respiratory diseases should continue to wear face masks outside the home. In addition, everyone should wear a face mask on public transport and in crowded spaces. However, Yong says healthy people don’t need to wear them in outdoor areas such as parks, beaches, and on the street."

..so if you are one of the 90% of farangs riding BTS with no mask while 98% of the thai people do wear masks you stick out like a sore thumb....how about have a tiny bit of respect for the Thai people.  When you are in another country does it not occur to many that it can be good idea to show respect for the cultural norms of your host country?  Would you go into a home in Japan and not remove your shoes?  Would you wear a speedo into a Thai wat? 

 

While the thai people are too polite to call out all the farangs on the BTS you can be pretty sure that most are likely thinking what a jerk.  It's not going to kill you to wear the damn mask for a few minutes regardless of what your opinion may be regarding mask.  It's about respect.  Have a little class and show some respect to the Thai people. 

[pomchop]

On 1/15/2023 at 10:02 PM, jaywalker2 said:

What I find amusing is that when the mask mandates were in place, if I lowered my mask even for a second, somebody was sure to tell me to put it back on. I remember I was in Foodland once and one of the employees literally became hysterical because I had lowered my mask in an area where there was no other people. "Put your mask on! Put your mask on!"

 

Now, I go everywhere without a mask on and despite the fact that 99% of the Thais around me are still wearing masks, nobody cares at all.

You assume they don't care.  Big assumption as many of them may well be looking at you thinking what a damn jerk.

[jak2002003]

2 minutes ago, pomchop said:

..so if you are one of the 90% of farangs riding BTS with no mask while 98% of the thai people do wear masks you stick out like a sore thumb....how about have a tiny bit of respect for the Thai people.  When you are in another country does it not occur to many that it can be good idea to show respect for the cultural norms of your host country?  Would you go into a home in Japan and not remove your shoes?  Would you wear a speedo into a Thai wat? 

 

While the thai people are too polite to call out all the farangs on the BTS you can be pretty sure that most are likely thinking what a jerk.  It's not going to kill you to wear the damn mask for a few minutes regardless of what your opinion may be regarding mask.  It's about respect.  Have a little class and show some respect to the Thai people. 

That is a paethic reason to wear a mask....so you don't stand out! 

 

As for respecting Thai culture...masks are a new thing and not part of their culture. 

 

Just going along with what everyone else is doing so people don't think bad of you is dumb.  Just being a farang and having different colour skin makes you stand out.. And many Thai people have racist views about farangs with or without a mask.

 

 

 

 

[jak2002003]

5 minutes ago, pomchop said:

You assume they don't care.  Big assumption as many of them may well be looking at you thinking what a damn jerk.

Most Thai people would not waste their time to give a dam what you were doing as they have little interest in you or others. 

 

Look at them next time you are on the train...they will be on social media, eyes glued tot heir smart phones, not busy judging you or others around them.

 

They are good like that. It's a Buddhist thing...and part of their culture. 

 

Need for approval from total strangers, or on easing about how others are judging you

.. Well... that seems a bit of an insecurity to me. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The science and credible studies in support of face mask wear as helping reduce (not absolutely prevent) the risk of contracting and spreading COVID are overwhelmingly clear.  The WHO supports that, the U.S. CDC supports that, the American Medical Association and countless other public health agencies support that.

 

Even the Thai doctor in the OP article advised that people should still wear face masks when in crowded indoor places:

 

"The virologist adds that adults with respiratory diseases should continue to wear face masks outside the home. In addition, everyone should wear a face mask on public transport and in crowded spaces."

 

The arguments against face mask wear mostly come from right-wing political idealogues and fringe scientists and doctors (whose backgrounds often are in fields unrelated to COVID and infectious diseases) who often publish their opinions in dubious journals, and/or eventually have their writings later pulled or ripped apart by actual experts in the field.

 

There is an expert consensus on face mask wear as one of several key measures to combat COVID, along with vaccination, social distancing and hygiene practices. But as with anything, there are always going to be a few fringe groups and voices shouting into the wind.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jaywalker2]

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

You assume they don't care.  Big assumption as many of them may well be looking at you thinking what a damn jerk.

Give me a break. If that were the case, they'd be avoiding you, turning away when you talk to them, and you'd have the nutcases glaring at you. Once the mandates were dropped, they stopped caring. Not once has anyone even given me a second look for not wearing a mask. You really don't know how Thailand works, do you?

Edited January 18, 2023 by jaywalker2
misspellings

[jak2002003]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:26 AM, 248900_1469958220 said:

Everyone at my work got all the shots....wore masks religiously and they ALL got Covid at least once. They got a freaking sore throat, fever and some had a bit of a cough...This whole thing has been the biggest swindle in human history. 

I have had no covid shots, only wear mask on public transport or places that insist on it, such as immigration etc. 

 

During lock downs I went out with my Thai friends and neighbours drinking behind our local village shops. 

 

I have never had covid, nor has my partner.  

 

 

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

I have had no covid shots, only wear mask on public transport or places that insist on it, such as immigration etc. 

 

During lock downs I went out with my Thai friends and neighbours drinking behind our local village shops. 

 

I have never had covid, nor has my partner.  

 

 

Same here. All this operation was a load of utter BS and everybody is realizing it now, apart from a minority of pathetic fanatics.

[metisdead]

A post with a link to an unapproved YouTube source has been removed:

 

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[huangnon]

19 hours ago, jacko45k said:

A nothing response....... empty of facts when there are so many you could have brought to the table... like China's about turn that has cost them 60,000 lives. By the way, an about turn is 180 degrees not 360 degrees.... great demonstration of putting little thought in one's post!!

'Big brother'... I do not see what that reference is about... !

Do you actually believe any "news" coming out of China? Supposedly, their "zero-Covid" absolute lock-down measures resulted in zero fatalities, but opening the country again, produced queues of corpses at the crematoriums, etc..

Thus: "Lockdowns work, and we'll use them again. And again". Communist propaganda,.

 

Remember at the start of the pandemic: People in China dropping dead in the street.? Where else in the world did that happen? Does anyone have real life experience of anything similar? *crickets*

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, huangnon said:

Do you actually believe any "news" coming out of China

Well I was cynical when it was reporting extremely low numbers, but that is not the case now, we are getting numbers that are negative for the image of Chins, that is unusual. The link you dispute was actually from CNN, and reportedly from a National Health Commission official. I suspect you did not read it... as it does not fit your agenda. 

 

9 minutes ago, huangnon said:

Remember at the start of the pandemic: People in China dropping dead in the street.? Where else in the world did that happen? Does anyone have real life experience of anything similar? *crickets*

Yes I do, very very well, people were dying in large numbers in Italy, Peru, Mexico, Brazil was having mass burials using diggers. Corpses in refrigerated trucks in the USA  as morgues overflowed. It was well reported by reputable Western media outlets....again you have a selective memory befitting some agenda. 

 

Not learning from history is a definition of insanity... and we had an event that has over 6 million deaths attributed to it. It is pretty much over, thank heavens, and we need to move on..... but I am not accepting denial from the Luddites. 

[Tippaporn]

15 hours ago, transam said:

Do they stop cough spit from circulating....?

No.  The cough spit circulates inside your mask.