China Officially Allows Group Tours to Resume to Thailand

[John Drake]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The world should just wise up, and refuse any Chinese tourist until China can prove Covid has gone away.

The world, alas, is quite busy doing just the opposite.

[John Drake]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

How many UK businesses are here in Thailand versus the Chinese ones and then the illegal ones or zero dollar tours. Take a look at today's BP and give me your view.

The large number of illegal Chinese businesses is the key. That is what is most important and is the likeliest outcome increased Chinese tourism, especially individual, non-group tours. How many "tourists" will simply disappear into the woodwork, carrying bags of money to set up shop? It's a silent annexation. I see in the Bangkok Post that the new slogan for Thai-Chinese tourism is "Two Lands, One Heart." Sounds a lot like the description of Hong Kong the PRC used, "One Country, Two Systems." Great. Until the PRC dropped the hammer and abolished Hong Kong's system. 

[newnative]

51 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

How many UK businesses are here in Thailand versus the Chinese ones and then the illegal ones or zero dollar tours. Take a look at today's BP and give me your view.

     It's not my 'view'.  My view or opinion doesn't come into play.   It's just statistics.  Data.   It's 6.7 million independent Chinese travelers in 2019.  Not on so-called 'zero dollar tours'--which aren't zero dollar, by the way.  It's Chinese spending of 531 billion baht in Thailand in 2019, the most of any country.  (If 'zero dollars' are being spent, how do we get to 531 billion baht spent?)   

     Are there some Chinese in Thailand operating illegal businesses?  Likely.  Do some Chinese find their way to these businesses?  Likely.   Do 6.7 million independently-traveling Chinese?  Unlikely--but welcome your stats saying otherwise.  

     I'm mostly just stating facts, to counter incorrect conclusions, often based on casual observation.  Chinese are observed in 7-11s.   Incorrect conclusion--Chinese tourists provide little economic benefit to Thailand.   Chinese are observed on tour buses.  Incorrect conclusion--they all must be on 'zero dollar' tours, spending nothing, and, again, providing little economic benefit.  

     Of course, Chinese in 7-11s and on tour buses are easy to spot.  What's less easy is spotting all those 6.7 billion non-tour Chinese scattered all over Thailand in 2019.  In any case, combined, they dropped that 5.31 billion baht in 2019--which is hard to ignore or explain away.

[lavender19]

On 1/21/2023 at 7:10 AM, poyai111 said:

90 million people infected. Over 20% of airport arrivals infected (eg South Korea). Perhaps Thailand is leaving itself vulnerable to another outbreak 

I do hope so . They might ban them again.

[ikke1959]

Today I read that a lot of CHinese have a problem with their income and payments as the population is also affected by inflating and rising costs just as the rest of the world....Maybe TAT was too optimistic again and my partner has read on another website that a lot of Chinese choose other countries than Thailand and that the big wave maybe expected only around September.... just to say.... 

[Scott]

Numerous posts and replies reported and removed.  Keep it civil.

 

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, John Drake said:

The world, alas, is quite busy doing just the opposite.

It seems like insanity to me. Just when we are getting covid under control, invite back in the nation which has been least effective, due to draconian, and idiotic CCP policies. And let it spread once again. 

 

If anything, severely isolate the Chinese, until they get their act together. Make them pay the price for repressive government lunacy. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by spidermike007

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, newnative said:

     It's not my 'view'.  My view or opinion doesn't come into play.   It's just statistics.  Data.   It's 6.7 million independent Chinese travelers in 2019.  Not on so-called 'zero dollar tours'--which aren't zero dollar, by the way.  It's Chinese spending of 531 billion baht in Thailand in 2019, the most of any country.  (If 'zero dollars' are being spent, how do we get to 531 billion baht spent?)   

     Are there some Chinese in Thailand operating illegal businesses?  Likely.  Do some Chinese find their way to these businesses?  Likely.   Do 6.7 million independently-traveling Chinese?  Unlikely--but welcome your stats saying otherwise.  

     I'm mostly just stating facts, to counter incorrect conclusions, often based on casual observation.  Chinese are observed in 7-11s.   Incorrect conclusion--Chinese tourists provide little economic benefit to Thailand.   Chinese are observed on tour buses.  Incorrect conclusion--they all must be on 'zero dollar' tours, spending nothing, and, again, providing little economic benefit.  

     Of course, Chinese in 7-11s and on tour buses are easy to spot.  What's less easy is spotting all those 6.7 billion non-tour Chinese scattered all over Thailand in 2019.  In any case, combined, they dropped that 5.31 billion baht in 2019--which is hard to ignore or explain away.

Those are government stats. Can anything these guys publish be trusted? I don't rely on those numbers. I don't think anyone should. 

[newnative]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Those are government stats. Can anything these guys publish be trusted? I don't rely on those numbers. I don't think anyone should. 

      I would rather rely on government stats than on observations from forum members.  No matter what statistics are quoted, some will persist in the narrative they have embraced:  Chinese are all on 'zero dollar tours'.  Chinese only spend at 7-11 and Family Mart.  Chinese only stay and eat at Chinese-owned businesses.  All the Chinese tourist money goes back to China.  Etc., etc.  When I have posted, I have tried to correct misinformation.   For example, 61% of Chinese visitors were traveling independently in 2019, not in tour groups.  Nevertheless, there will be some who will always believe that they are all here on 'zero dollar tours', contributing nothing.

     Some of the stats I quoted were from the Office of Statistics, which gathers data from a number of sources.  Sometimes data will vary between sources.  For example, Chinese spending in Thailand in 2019 has been listed as 543 billion baht by Statista and 531 billion baht by the Office of Statistics.  They are both in the ballpark of each other--one wasn't saying 100 billion and the other 600 billion.  I went with the smaller figure.   

     What I find interesting is some forum members seem to readily accept, without question, any data that they agree with--while, like you, not trusting anything else.  For example, I can't remember anybody questioning the statistics on individual tourist spending, when they have been posted. 

    Those stats for 2019 show European tourists spending on average around 68,000 baht, those from 'Americas' at around 71,000 baht, and Chinese tourists spending on average around 48,000 baht.  There have been unquestioning posts pointing out how much more valuable western tourists are.   One poster remarked that 48,000 baht didn't seem like much to him--while conveniently ignoring that it adds up to 531 billion, more than all of Europe's spending at 459 billion. 

    This is not to say that western tourists aren't important.  Of course they are.  When you add European and Americas spending in 2019 you get 575 billion--more than China's 531 billion.  That should be a statistic posters will embrace.   (But it's less than Asia not including China, which is the biggest at over 600 billion baht.)  

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

      I would rather rely on government stats than on observations from forum members.  No matter what statistics are quoted, some will persist in the narrative they have embraced:  Chinese are all on 'zero dollar tours'.  Chinese only spend at 7-11 and Family Mart.  Chinese only stay and eat at Chinese-owned businesses.  All the Chinese tourist money goes back to China.  Etc., etc.  When I have posted, I have tried to correct misinformation.   For example, 61% of Chinese visitors were traveling independently in 2019, not in tour groups.  Nevertheless, there will be some who will always believe that they are all here on 'zero dollar tours', contributing nothing.

     Some of the stats I quoted were from the Office of Statistics, which gathers data from a number of sources.  Sometimes data will vary between sources.  For example, Chinese spending in Thailand in 2019 has been listed as 543 billion baht by Statista and 531 billion baht by the Office of Statistics.  They are both in the ballpark of each other--one wasn't saying 100 billion and the other 600 billion.  I went with the smaller figure.   

     What I find interesting is some forum members seem to readily accept, without question, any data that they agree with--while, like you, not trusting anything else.  For example, I can't remember anybody questioning the statistics on individual tourist spending, when they have been posted. 

    Those stats for 2019 show European tourists spending on average around 68,000 baht, those from 'Americas' at around 71,000 baht, and Chinese tourists spending on average around 48,000 baht.  There have been unquestioning posts pointing out how much more valuable western tourists are.   One poster remarked that 48,000 baht didn't seem like much to him--while conveniently ignoring that it adds up to 531 billion, more than all of Europe's spending at 459 billion. 

    This is not to say that western tourists aren't important.  Of course they are.  When you add European and Americas spending in 2019 you get 575 billion--more than China's 531 billion.  That should be a statistic posters will embrace.   (But it's less than Asia not including China, which is the biggest at over 600 billion baht.)  

And how much spend retirees and expats during the year in Thailand??? Why are they not treated better than instead if they are criminals with 90 days reporting, adress confirmations, etc?? Or are only tourists important??

[Will B Good]

China Officially Allows Group Tours to Resume to Thailand............

 

Somedays it just feels like all your Christmases have come at once.........

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

      I would rather rely on government stats than on observations from forum members.  No matter what statistics are quoted, some will persist in the narrative they have embraced:  Chinese are all on 'zero dollar tours'.  Chinese only spend at 7-11 and Family Mart.  Chinese only stay and eat at Chinese-owned businesses.  All the Chinese tourist money goes back to China.  Etc., etc.  When I have posted, I have tried to correct misinformation.   For example, 61% of Chinese visitors were traveling independently in 2019, not in tour groups.  Nevertheless, there will be some who will always believe that they are all here on 'zero dollar tours', contributing nothing.

     Some of the stats I quoted were from the Office of Statistics, which gathers data from a number of sources.  Sometimes data will vary between sources.  For example, Chinese spending in Thailand in 2019 has been listed as 543 billion baht by Statista and 531 billion baht by the Office of Statistics.  They are both in the ballpark of each other--one wasn't saying 100 billion and the other 600 billion.  I went with the smaller figure.   

     What I find interesting is some forum members seem to readily accept, without question, any data that they agree with--while, like you, not trusting anything else.  For example, I can't remember anybody questioning the statistics on individual tourist spending, when they have been posted. 

    Those stats for 2019 show European tourists spending on average around 68,000 baht, those from 'Americas' at around 71,000 baht, and Chinese tourists spending on average around 48,000 baht.  There have been unquestioning posts pointing out how much more valuable western tourists are.   One poster remarked that 48,000 baht didn't seem like much to him--while conveniently ignoring that it adds up to 531 billion, more than all of Europe's spending at 459 billion. 

    This is not to say that western tourists aren't important.  Of course they are.  When you add European and Americas spending in 2019 you get 575 billion--more than China's 531 billion.  That should be a statistic posters will embrace.   (But it's less than Asia not including China, which is the biggest at over 600 billion baht.)  

I know a few business owners in Samui and they are looking forward to the Chinese tourists to return. The best customers, almost never complain, and spend well. They don't come here for the beaches, they are here to eat and shop.

I've personally met quite a few of them before the covid times, glass wearing,  polite, educated, many working in the high tech industries. Never seen any of them drunk,  intoxicated, deliberately trying to cause trouble. No comparison with the tattoed shirtless helmetless scumbags.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

And how much spend retirees and expats during the year in Thailand??? Why are they not treated better than instead if they are criminals with 90 days reporting, adress confirmations, etc?? Or are only tourists important??

        Although a separate issue from tourism, I totally agree.  I know my partner and I have spent plenty in the 12 years we have been here.  We have renovated over 20 properties in those 12 years.  The renovations employed plumbers, electricians, carpenters, painters, wallpaper people, furniture makers, drywallers, tilers, etc.  The two houses also employed landscapers, pool makers, and concrete workers--some days there were a dozen or more workers on site.

       Many other expats have also employed workers to do renovation work on their condos and houses; plus, employing local Thais for other work as needed.  We contribute to the local economy by buying or renting property, buying motor vehicles, furniture and appliances, housewares,  electronics, and so on.  We help to keep many restaurants and businesses of all kinds open with our patronage.   It would be nice if our contributions were given more recognition, starting with the elimination of 90 day reporting after the first year.

[billyo]

The Chinese spend at all levels from the zero baht to the richest. If Thailand has the will to open casinos as well they will hit the jackpot of numbers in the future. I was reading that their target is 80 million tourists by 2027 which is insane. Even if they only get half that amount in the main tourist areas they will ruin it for everybody else. The baht will go to the moon as well.