Bad air in December and now January….Too early…!!

[Tarteso]

Good day to cycling, run and  exercise ????

[Dcheech]

I did not find it bad this morning. However lots of places in Thailand to escape from CM.
 

Quote

"Bangkok administration urges working from home on Thursday due to bad air quality"

Oh no! Scratch one off that list. 

[KhunLA]

Woke up & AQI @ 20 ????, though some burning already, about 200 meters from house ????  I must be upwind.

 

Now AQI @ 24, my meter... hmm, and winds have picked up.  AQI site stating AQI now @ 93.  Don't know where their meter is, but obviously not near me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:42 AM, KhunLA said:

Woke up & AQI @ 20 ????, though some burning already, about 200 meters from house ????  I must be upwind.

 

Now AQI @ 24, my meter... hmm, and winds have picked up.  AQI site stating AQI now @ 93.  Don't know where their meter is, but obviously not near me.

Does your meter measure AQI or micrograms of PM2.5, which are entirely different scales and numbers?

 

Most home PM2.5 meters tend to measure PM2.5 levels in actual micrograms...

 

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Does your meter measure AQI or micrograms of PM2.5, which are entirely different scales and numbers?

 

Most home PM2.5 meters tend to measure PM2.5 levels in actual micrograms...

 

Both, along with the other two for air quality.  Temp & RH also.  

[KhunLA]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Does your meter measure AQI or micrograms of PM2.5, which are entirely different scales and numbers?

 

Most home PM2.5 meters tend to measure PM2.5 levels in actual micrograms...

 

[jak2002003]

58 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Was that inside your house next to an air purifier machine? 

[KhunLA]

34 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Was that inside your house next to an air purifier machine? 

In the bedroom, purifier is <4m away, although the bedroom door is open, and the other main room, also has a Xiaomi purifier in it, so the 2 are cleaning about 105m² of area.  Ceiling shy of 4m.

 

ACs have air purifiers in them, but they don't seem to do much.  

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by KhunLA

[Thailand]

AQI almost  200 in some areas this morning.

Could taste the <deleted> in the air yesterday morning out on the golf course.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, KhunLA said:

ACs have air purifiers in them, but they don't seem to do much. 

I got a large (high capacity) new Carrier AC system in our living room a couple months back that's supposed to have a PM2.5 filtration element (apart from a large Honeywell HEPA purifier I have and use in the room).

 

Thus far, if the new air con unit running makes any difference as far as PM2.5 levels are concerned, I can't detect it. I'd be up sh** creek if it wasn't for my HEPA units.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yikes!

 

Purple readings above 200 AQI are pretty rare even for Bangkok... Usually at its worse, the local levels during the bad times of the year tend to get up into the 170+ range at worst.

 

 

https://aqicn.org/station/thailand/bangkok/phloen-chit-road/

 

[K2938]

The climate is really only truly pleasant in Thailand during the cold season which is about four months from Nov to the end of February and now the pollution further reduces this by about a third.  Not great for a tourist destination...

[billyo]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:17 AM, at15 said:

the AQI is bad 12 months per year and has been for many years. you accept that or find another country.

Yes I do, Europe we have lovely clean air it's wonderful. One reason amongst many why I will never live here or my (Thai) wife even though we have condos , land, family and money here.

[Elkski]

21 hours ago, KhunLA said:

In the bedroom, purifier is <4m away, although the bedroom door is open, and the other main room, also has a Xiaomi purifier in it, so the 2 are cleaning about 105m² of area.  Ceiling shy of 4m.

 

ACs have air purifiers in them, but they don't seem to do much.  

 

Interesting layout.  With the master bath access from outside?  Is that for future pool?  Not a bad idea anyway.  What are those red letters. Like on the front steps? 

No outdoor kitchen?

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Interesting layout.  With the master bath access from outside?  Is that for future pool?  Not a bad idea anyway.  What are those red letters. Like on the front steps? 

No outdoor kitchen?

That's a window in master bath, and letter/#s haven't a clue, wife's handy work.  There's an outside cooking area now, outside the laundry area.

 

It's basically a giant eat in kitchen with 1 bedroom ????  We don't get guests, and I've never used a living room.  Veranda, sitting area, and storage/laundry to the side.

[KhunLA]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:17 AM, at15 said:

the AQI is bad 12 months per year and has been for many years. you accept that or find another country.

Mid May to Nov, the AQIs are usually fine, during rainy season.  To wet and green to burn anything.

[InlandSea]

Cost aside, is it safe to leave your apartment or condo in Chiang Mai vacant for a couple of months during burning season?

[jimgilly]

Just noticed many of the guys who used to post about the pollution problem in CM not being much of a concern are not posting anymore.  Some I know are dead, others likely moved away and others are probably just too embarrassed to admit they are still there. 

 

Then you've got someone with multiple medical issues but because he doesn't believe he has any respiratory problems, he's good to go.  Really?

 

Do a little research and you will find how dangerous air pollution is and how it can have serious affects throughout the body with even limited exposure.  To be subjected year in and year out to the pollution levels in CM is nothing short of lunacy and anyone who thinks it isn't having a serious negative impact on their health is delusional.  There are enough things in this world trying to kill you, just don't add to it.

 

 

 

 

[cardinalblue]

Enjoying the air? It’s hitting 300 ppm today….challenging for worst in the world and you live there…

 

at least you don’t die of old age…COD will be clear or should say smokey…

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Great..... ????

 

 

 

https://aqicn.org/station/thailand/chiang-mai/outdoor-/ชุมชนหมื่นสาร-จุดที่-5a-อาสา-dustboy/#/z/11

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Glad to see the local government's annual anti-burning campaign and (toothless) threats of jail for offenders are proving so successful!   ????

 

[mania]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:37 PM, InlandSea said:

Cost aside, is it safe to leave your apartment or condo in Chiang Mai vacant for a couple of months during burning season?

We use to leave our condo for a year or more at a time in Chiang Mai

Never a problem except once we came back & the folks in condo above had a leak which caused problems on our ceiling

 

I was initially sad to sell in 2016 these days I think differently ????

We did visit in November which was nice

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by mania

[Marcous]

Don't worry, the authorities have everything under control.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/chiang-mai-tackles-pm2-5-pollution-with-giant-vacuum-cleaner

[TheAppletons]

Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

 

[cardinalblue]

The only solution to CM’s air pollution is rain…after the rare of 2 consecutive nights, the AP has returned with vengeance after 4 days of under 100…

 

my advice to CM tourists is ONLY come between June and December…even Dec is starting to become AP

 

the other 5 months are an embarrassment 

[SoilSpoil]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:56 PM, ChaiyaTH said:

Almost forgot about this as I have left town since quite a while, I was actually jealous looking at the sunny days and temperatures but when I now see the air pollution website again there are zero regrets for having left.

Same here, we left in 2018, leaving behind a beatiful house, nice job and schools for the kids. We moved to Phuket, took a big risk financially, but never regretted our decision. The pain I felt to see my children getting sick because agro companies  and corrupt governments value profit over the health of the population, was too much to bear. I visit CM once a year, only during the rainy season. 

[SoilSpoil]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:49 AM, lordblackader said:

Nothing usual this year - either with smog or people's ability to whine. 

Tell  the thousands of children and their parents who are suffering big time from the pollution, that they are whining,, you keyboard warrior. How low can you go?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A quick response to the more outlandish (or otherwise interesting) posts: 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 3:20 PM, cardinalblue said:

my advice to CM tourists is ONLY come between June and December…even Dec is starting to become AP

the other 5 months are an embarrassment 

This seems to imply that Chiang Mai has a problem and other places don't.  If it's December or January, and you leave Chiang Mai to go to Pattaya or Hua Hin, you will have WORSE air than Chiang Mai.  The reality is that in December, January, most of February and May, the air in Chiang Mai is no worse (and often better) than most other places in Thailand.   

 

On 2/15/2023 at 6:40 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Glad to see the local government's annual anti-burning campaign and (toothless) threats of jail for offenders are proving so successful!   ????

You can ban residential and agricultural burning, AND police it successfully.   Because these are areas that are reasonably accessible, and you can see a fire miles away.  In these areas a ban is effective.  However you are not ever going to catch a guy hiking into a forest at night as setting a fire with a timed fuse, so he's long gone by the time the fire gets going.  Also, setting fires in forest areas is illegal all of the time, it is not in any way influenced by having a ban or not; they're committing arson and they know it.  Could you catch these people... maybe with a draconian effort and a military budget. 

 

On 2/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, cardinalblue said:

Enjoying the air? It’s hitting 300 ppm today….challenging for worst in the world and you live there…

Particulate matter is not measured in ppm.  And not only is Chiang Mai not ever worst in the world, it's not worst in Thailand.   That list by IQAir/ AirVisual that you're looking at is an interesting infographic, but you do need to understand what it is.  People who misunderstand it can actually end up harming themselves making wrong decisions.  They'd think hey, Pai is not in the Top 10, let's go there.  Which would be a mistake, to put it mildly. 

 

On 2/15/2023 at 8:15 AM, jimgilly said:

Just noticed many of the guys who used to post about the pollution problem in CM not being much of a concern are not posting anymore. 

It's a little tedious to go through the same nonsense every year.  On the plus side, there is so much more data now that the really silly nonsense fell by the wayside.  (For example that Chiang Mai or the North is the only area with a pollution problem, or that the government is covering things up, and even weirder conspiracies.  Hello, the government is the reason we even have data going back more than a quarter century. )

 

On 1/25/2023 at 8:43 AM, marin said:

I feel for both you and your partner, but at the same time this is why I have never lived in Chaing Mai. It is a fact and has been a fact for 25 years that Chaing Mai has a horrible problem with pollution when they burn the mountainsides. Some are willing to take the bad with the good. I chose not to. 

This makes sense, and yes it's 25 years that we can say for sure, but likely going back a lot further. There is anecdotal evidence from decades prior about thick haze in the North.  This is important to understand because when people were falsely claiming that 'it' started in <some arbitrary year>, that gave people the impression that it was a recent problem that can therefore be solved pretty quickly... yeah.. no.   Very slowly improvements can be made and are being made but it's going far too slowly.    I think the Wikipedia page on Chiang Mai to this day claims that air pollution started in 2007. ???? (Which was  bad year admittedly, but hardly the start of anything). 

 

On 1/22/2023 at 9:17 AM, at15 said:

the AQI is bad 12 months per year and has been for many years. you accept that or find another country.

Well define bad, and compared to where exactly?   Over a 12 month period the air in Chiang Mai is very similar to Pattaya for example.  Last year you had 4 entire months in the green zone on the US AQI scale, with Chiang Mai ranking among the best in the world on that same IQAir ranking that people like.   So.. apparently even green is 'bad'.   You are hard to please.   Some islands in the pacific have green level air year round.  Very few places on Earth do. 

[JimmyJ]

WinnieTheKhwai - 

"That list by IQAir/ AirVisual that you're looking at is an interesting infographic, but you do need to understand what it is.  People who misunderstand it can actually end up harming themselves making wrong decisions.  They'd think hey, Pai is not in the Top 10, let's go there.  Which would be a mistake, to put it mildly."

 

Can you explain?

[SoilSpoil]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:13 AM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

A quick response to the more outlandish (or otherwise interesting) posts: 

 

This seems to imply that Chiang Mai has a problem and other places don't.  If it's December or January, and you leave Chiang Mai to go to Pattaya or Hua Hin, you will have WORSE air than Chiang Mai.  The reality is that in December, January, most of February and May, the air in Chiang Mai is no worse (and often better) than most other places in Thailand.   

 

You can ban residential and agricultural burning, AND police it successfully.   Because these are areas that are reasonably accessible, and you can see a fire miles away.  In these areas a ban is effective.  However you are not ever going to catch a guy hiking into a forest at night as setting a fire with a timed fuse, so he's long gone by the time the fire gets going.  Also, setting fires in forest areas is illegal all of the time, it is not in any way influenced by having a ban or not; they're committing arson and they know it.  Could you catch these people... maybe with a draconian effort and a military budget. 

 

Particulate matter is not measured in ppm.  And not only is Chiang Mai not ever worst in the world, it's not worst in Thailand.   That list by IQAir/ AirVisual that you're looking at is an interesting infographic, but you do need to understand what it is.  People who misunderstand it can actually end up harming themselves making wrong decisions.  They'd think hey, Pai is not in the Top 10, let's go there.  Which would be a mistake, to put it mildly. 

 

It's a little tedious to go through the same nonsense every year.  On the plus side, there is so much more data now that the really silly nonsense fell by the wayside.  (For example that Chiang Mai or the North is the only area with a pollution problem, or that the government is covering things up, and even weirder conspiracies.  Hello, the government is the reason we even have data going back more than a quarter century. )

 

This makes sense, and yes it's 25 years that we can say for sure, but likely going back a lot further. There is anecdotal evidence from decades prior about thick haze in the North.  This is important to understand because when people were falsely claiming that 'it' started in <some arbitrary year>, that gave people the impression that it was a recent problem that can therefore be solved pretty quickly... yeah.. no.   Very slowly improvements can be made and are being made but it's going far too slowly.    I think the Wikipedia page on Chiang Mai to this day claims that air pollution started in 2007. ???? (Which was  bad year admittedly, but hardly the start of anything). 

 

Well define bad, and compared to where exactly?   Over a 12 month period the air in Chiang Mai is very similar to Pattaya for example.  Last year you had 4 entire months in the green zone on the US AQI scale, with Chiang Mai ranking among the best in the world on that same IQAir ranking that people like.   So.. apparently even green is 'bad'.   You are hard to please.   Some islands in the pacific have green level air year round.  Very few places on Earth do. 

In other words:  the air in CM is horrible and best to be avoided, if you can, between December and May.