Florida teachers forced to remove books from their classrooms—or face felony charges

[BusyB]

9 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Trump lost? Surely you mean in 2020.  Because the 2016 results were clear.  

 

One might also call the parliamentary system archaic, since in Canada for the past two elections the winner of the popular vote did not become Prime Minister. 

Trump 'won' only because of the 'electoral college' in 2016. The vote was indeed clear then as in 2020.

 

Both the UK and the US are in no meaningful sense 'democracies' fit for purpose in 21st century. They are literally on a par with Belarus.

[Tug]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I think he's 100% right and would add 'promotion of any religion', and 'climate change alarmism' to his list.

Yup when in doubt preach ignorance the funny thing is the more you forbid a kid something the more likely they will peruse it that beeing said willful ignorance is a sin imo 

[heybruce]

We're starting on the 9th page on this topic and still nobody has given any examples of actual indoctrination or grooming going on in Florida schools.  No real-world examples in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

 

Florida ranks poorly in public education, has a home insurance market on the point of collapse, water quality problems caused by agricultural run-off and poor sewage systems all around the state (causing algae blooms making tourist beaches intolerable) and many other problems.

 

What doe DeSantis do?  He hypes non-issues such as a make-believe education emergency and passes laws that get blocked by the courts (at taxpayer expense), gets lots of publicity and Fox News appearances, and positions himself for a run for the Presidency.  Meanwhile the state he is supposed to be governing goes down the tubes.

[Bkk Brian]

Even in dem states the attack is on using hyper-aggressive legal action to effectively mandate the erasure of LGBTQ people

 

Inside the audacious new scheme to erase LGBTQ people from Michigan schools

A newly-formed conservative group is launching a brazen plan to remake Michigan public schools — using aggressive legal action to effectively mandate the erasure of LGBTQ people. 

The effort, organized by the Great Schools Initiative (GSI), seeks to exploit a Michigan statute that allows parents to opt their children out of sex education. Michigan law allows schools to offer courses in sex education. 

https://popular.info/p/inside-the-audacious-new-scheme-to

[Credo]

14 minutes ago, heybruce said:

We're starting on the 9th page on this topic and still nobody has given any examples of actual indoctrination or grooming going on in Florida schools.  No real-world examples in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

 

Florida ranks poorly in public education, has a home insurance market on the point of collapse, water quality problems caused by agricultural run-off and poor sewage systems all around the state (causing algae blooms making tourist beaches intolerable) and many other problems.

 

What doe DeSantis do?  He hypes non-issues such as a make-believe education emergency and passes laws that get blocked by the courts (at taxpayer expense), gets lots of publicity and Fox News appearances, and positions himself for a run for the Presidency.  Meanwhile the state he is supposed to be governing goes down the tubes.

You won't get any examples of grooming or indoctrination because it seldom happens and is as rare as hen's teeth among classroom and subject teachers.  Teachers handling a class full of students aren't interested in grooming or indoctrination.  They are interested in keeping their student's attention and maintaining some sense of order in the classroom.   

 

Grooming takes time.  It takes a lot of time.  It requires establishing a personal relationship with a particular child, and it requires isolating the child from peers.  If you want to look at places where children get groomed, then look at people like coaches, priests and ministers and those involved in activities involving camping likes scouts.  I have no intention of tarnishing any of those professions as the very vast majority of coaches, priests and scout leaders are genuinely helping children and are trustworthy.  

 

In the classroom, a teacher gets watched closely.  They get watched for any type of favoritism, and that makes the classroom a pretty poor environment for grooming.  

 

I don't know what type of indoctrination most of the right-wingers are talking about.  I suspect they think that students might end up 'woke' or not be anti-racist or anti-gay.  Or maybe they think they are going to convert them to Islam?  The only time I am aware of those issues coming up in a classroom when some student is being bullied and a discussion as to why we can't call Suzy, Slant Eyes or why calling little Joey a <deleted> isn't permitted.  

 

Much of what is being done is to make the classroom a rather inhospitable place for those who are not what the right wing considers as 'normal'.  

[LosLobo]

17 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Prospective GOP candidates for president are leaning heavily into education amid concerns over issues like parental rights and the politicization of school curriculums.

 

Underscoring how critical an issue it is for Republicans, former President Trump unveiled his education platform on Thursday, calling for cutting federal funds to any education program that involves “critical race theory, gender ideology, or other inappropriate racial, sexual, or political content onto our children.”

 

Their actions come as potential GOP candidates search for winning issues after a disappointing midterm election.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3833724-republicans-see-education-as-winning-issue-in-2024/

 

edit: note the right wing press' inability to spell curricula. 

"Note the right wing press' inability to spell curricula". 

 

Possibly the linked article author wants to comply with recent conservative racial bans, not to reference historic roots from other cultures.

We all know that the English language has a strong Roman Italian (Latin) influence on the English Language.

 

Perhaps in the future, the US English language will be devoid of all references to its roots in other historic cultures (i.e. Danish, Italian, French, German etc).

 

Eventually, if the clowns get their way, the US language may become unintelligible to other English speakers in the rest of the world.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by LosLobo

[vandeventer]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:05 PM, 2009 said:

Hang on. The left are the biggest fascists these days.

 

They hate virtually everyone

They are really not that bad, they just need to grow up and stop acting like a group of 5 year old's.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

"Note the right wing press' inability to spell curricula". 

 

Possibly the linked article author wants to comply with recent conservative racial bans, not to reference historic roots from other cultures.

We all know that the English language has a strong Roman Italian (Latin) influence on the English Language.

 

Perhaps in the future, the US English language will be devoid of all references to its roots in other historic cultures (i.e. Danish, Italian, French, German etc).

 

Eventually, if the clowns get their way, the US language may become unintelligible to other English speakers in the rest of the world.

 

That would be linguistically impossible. Most languages have common roots to other languages. The only exceptions I know of are the Australonesian languages. If the common roots of English were to be removed it would be unrecognisable. That was probably your point, I'm not sure. I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

They are really not that bad, they just need to grow up and stop acting like a group of 5 year old's.

The left are not the ones labelling anybody who isn't a rabid right winger "woke" and "communist".

[LosLobo]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That would be linguistically impossible. Most languages have common roots to other languages. The only exceptions I know of are the Australonesian languages. If the common roots of English were to be removed it would be unrecognisable. That was probably your point, I'm not sure. I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

 

 

 

 

I got the jump on you, I had my morning coffee 3 hours ago!

 

That was my point.
 

[wwest5829]

12 hours ago, Scott said:

After many years of teaching and being involved in curriculum development, I can assure you, it is what is in the curriculum that is important, not what books are in the library.  The vast majority of young learners and high school students don't do much book reading beyond what is required and the occasional exploring of material for a term paper. 

 

The curriculum is invariably designed by the relevant Education department and in most instances the recommended texts are mandated by them. 

 

The struggle for most teachers is to get students to read anything.  The only books I ever had to confiscate were the Japanese comic books that were immensely popular among students and being read in class.  I never kept the books, but would take them away during class and return them after.  The school policy was to take them away and keep them, but I always figured if I can get them to read comic books it's a shorter leap to actually reading any book.  

I applied your idea to encouraging watching movies based on historical events, often pointing out that students were to keep in mind that most movies are focused on entertainment and earning money not a dedication to historic accuracy. That said, I wanted them at least exposed to the history even if they did not read a book the movie was based upon.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

You won't get any examples of grooming or indoctrination because it seldom happens and is as rare as hen's teeth among classroom and subject teachers.  Teachers handling a class full of students aren't interested in grooming or indoctrination.  They are interested in keeping their student's attention and maintaining some sense of order in the classroom.   

 

Grooming takes time.  It takes a lot of time.  It requires establishing a personal relationship with a particular child, and it requires isolating the child from peers.  If you want to look at places where children get groomed, then look at people like coaches, priests and ministers and those involved in activities involving camping likes scouts.  I have no intention of tarnishing any of those professions as the very vast majority of coaches, priests and scout leaders are genuinely helping children and are trustworthy.  

 

In the classroom, a teacher gets watched closely.  They get watched for any type of favoritism, and that makes the classroom a pretty poor environment for grooming.  

 

I don't know what type of indoctrination most of the right-wingers are talking about.  I suspect they think that students might end up 'woke' or not be anti-racist or anti-gay.  Or maybe they think they are going to convert them to Islam?  The only time I am aware of those issues coming up in a classroom when some student is being bullied and a discussion as to why we can't call Suzy, Slant Eyes or why calling little Joey a <deleted> isn't permitted.  

 

Much of what is being done is to make the classroom a rather inhospitable place for those who are not what the right wing considers as 'normal'.  

Exactly. It's just right-wing B.S. with doesn't pass the reality test.

"Experts in psychology and child development said they are not aware of any evidence showing that increased exposure to LGBTQ people or topics makes children more likely to join the LGBTQ community. Instead, they said it is likely an environment of increased acceptance allows people to more openly consider whether they might be part of the LGBTQ community."

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/11/why-its-not-grooming-what-research-says-about-gend/

 

As  to sexual abuse and grooming, statistics also don't support the right-wing claims.

 

https://www.d2l.org/wpcontent/uploads/2017/01/all_statistics_20150619.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwim3t3c7_D8AhXiXqQEHRbwDgEQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1soXkA9WaCw1qgTLHoI9WA

 

https://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/media-room/national-statistics-on-child-abuse/

[Jingthing]

My feelimg as a person targeted by these republican fascists is that making an entire class of people INVISIBLE under penalty of massive fines, firings, and defunding of schools as Trump has recently proposed is the first step towards genocide. They have told us what they are. Learn from history. Believe them.

[Joe Mama]

Wow!  The state of Florida is eerily starting to resemble pre-World War II Germany!  Soon the book burning parties will ignite!  I'm sure as hell glad I went to high school in the USA over 50 years ago, when about the only thing that was banned from the high school libraries was hard core porn!  What's up next for Florida schools...a ban on free thinking???

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

They are really not that bad, they just need to grow up and stop acting like a group of 5 year old's.

Funny, the name that immediately sprang to mind is Trump.  Is he a leftist?

[johnnybangkok]

18 hours ago, blazes said:

"Biggly" :  the only other human being I ever heard converting "big" into an even greater adverb "biggly" was Donald J. Trump.....

The use of “biggly” was on purpose. 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

The use of “biggly” was on purpose. 

And there was his very recent use of Musk "does good at rockets". No politician in history has ever had such a poor command of their own native language.  Even  5 year olds speak better English.

 

It's not surprising these cretins want to remove books from schools and promote home schooling. They need to dumb down the population to get any votes. Educated people vote more for liberals. They know that.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/trump-elon-musk-spacex-tesla-rockets-launch-davos-interview-cnbc-a9296906.html

Edited January 31, 2023 by ozimoron

[Tug]

I see old Donnie as someone who believes that everything a person needs to know is learned at the elementary school level his tactics certainly reflect now his acolytes (DeSantis)try to run the same game says a lot about their voter base 

[Hanaguma]

8 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

Wow!  The state of Florida is eerily starting to resemble pre-World War II Germany!  Soon the book burning parties will ignite!  I'm sure as hell glad I went to high school in the USA over 50 years ago, when about the only thing that was banned from the high school libraries was hard core porn!  What's up next for Florida schools...a ban on free thinking???

Nice to see Godwin's Law enter the discussion. I am sure it is a valuable rabbit hole to dive down.  Of course the similarities between asking that elementary school aged children not be exposed to sexual/mature themes in books and burning titles written by a particular religion are obvious...

[Hanaguma]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

My feelimg as a person targeted by these republican fascists is that making an entire class of people INVISIBLE under penalty of massive fines, firings, and defunding of schools as Trump has recently proposed is the first step towards genocide. They have told us what they are. Learn from history. Believe them.

Could you be a bit more specific, I am not sure what you are referencing. What class of people are being made invisible? How? And please show the link to genocide.  

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll, baiting posts and replies removed.  Stay on topic, please. 

 

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Could you be a bit more specific, I am not sure what you are referencing. What class of people are being made invisible? How? And please show the link to genocide.  

Perhaps the class of people who want to read books not on a government approved list.

 

Any luck coming up with examples of grooming or indoctrination that justify this DeSantis nonsense?

[SunnyinBangrak]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

My feelimg as a person targeted by these republican fascists is that making an entire class of people INVISIBLE under penalty of massive fines, firings, and defunding of schools as Trump has recently proposed is the first step towards genocide. They have told us what they are. Learn from history. Believe them.

2 groups of people are affected by these anti grooming laws, they are young children in the school system and perverts that are preying on young children. I find it most odd that among your usual false claims (on a factual news discussion forum?) you claim to be "targeted" by DeSantis's effort to protect kids. Constantly going on about nonsensical genocide, fascists and ridiculous claims about intent of laws that are solely created to protect vulnerable children seems out of place where others are forced to use credible sources to back up assertions made. Not you though?

[Credo]

20 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

2 groups of people are affected by these anti grooming laws, they are young children in the school system and perverts that are preying on young children. I find it most odd that among your usual false claims (on a factual news discussion forum?) you claim to be "targeted" by DeSantis's effort to protect kids. Constantly going on about nonsensical genocide, fascists and ridiculous claims about intent of laws that are solely created to protect vulnerable children seems out of place where others are forced to use credible sources to back up assertions made. Not you though?

They aren't anti-grooming laws, they are anti-LGBTQ laws.  Stop with the lying.  A previous poster gave a link to a list of common perpetrators.  Teachers aren't even on the list.   Drag Queens doing story hour at a library aren't either.  These laws are for the purpose of continued discrimination against any group the right-wingers don't like.

 

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

2 groups of people are affected by these anti grooming laws, they are young children in the school system and perverts that are preying on young children. I find it most odd that among your usual false claims (on a factual news discussion forum?) you claim to be "targeted" by DeSantis's effort to protect kids. Constantly going on about nonsensical genocide, fascists and ridiculous claims about intent of laws that are solely created to protect vulnerable children seems out of place where others are forced to use credible sources to back up assertions made. Not you though?

Betcha can't give one credible example of school children being groomed by teachers.  Extra points if it is an example of something that would have been prevented by removing books from classrooms, or any part of the just-for-show law passed by DeSantis.

[SunnyinBangrak]

20 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Betcha can't give one credible example of school children being groomed by teachers.  Extra points if it is an example of something that would have been prevented by removing books from classrooms, or any part of the just-for-show law passed by DeSantis.

"Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and assaulted students last school year, according to a report released this week."

https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-021144183.html

 

My favourite one single example would be Alden Bunag, it is a standout due to his tweets(absolutely echoing the left wing narrative here) blaming the right wing for making up the grooming issue while at the same time he was grooming children. Busted, big time.

 

it went from

"In posts on Twitter now viral, Bunag accuses conservatives of "defending fascists" and "projecting" in vitriolic exchanges about "groomers" and sex education."

 

to

"The criminal complaint alleged 33-year-old Alden Bunag shared videos of himself "having sexual intercourse with a boy identified by name," referred to in the complaint as 13-year-old "male victim 1."

https://www.kitv.com/news/local/oahu-high-school-teacher-considered-flight-risk-after-child-pornography-charges/article_3d82b38c-f2ce-11ec-9588-77c571843e9b.html

 

You're welcome now please stop falsely claiming grooming never happens

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

2 groups of people are affected by these anti grooming laws, they are young children in the school system and perverts that are preying on young children. I find it most odd that among your usual false claims (on a factual news discussion forum?) you claim to be "targeted" by DeSantis's effort to protect kids. Constantly going on about nonsensical genocide, fascists and ridiculous claims about intent of laws that are solely created to protect vulnerable children seems out of place where others are forced to use credible sources to back up assertions made. Not you though?

Lol! You are making things up again! They are not anti grooming laws. They are laws to ban books!

 

BTW, most schools have anti-grooming and anti- sexual abuse regulations and procedures.

[candide]

17 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and assaulted students last school year, according to a report released this week."

https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-021144183.html

 

My favourite one single example would be Alden Bunag, it is a standout due to his tweets(absolutely echoing the left wing narrative here) blaming the right wing for making up the grooming issue while at the same time he was grooming children. Busted, big time.

 

it went from

"In posts on Twitter now viral, Bunag accuses conservatives of "defending fascists" and "projecting" in vitriolic exchanges about "groomers" and sex education."

 

to

"The criminal complaint alleged 33-year-old Alden Bunag shared videos of himself "having sexual intercourse with a boy identified by name," referred to in the complaint as 13-year-old "male victim 1."

https://www.kitv.com/news/local/oahu-high-school-teacher-considered-flight-risk-after-child-pornography-charges/article_3d82b38c-f2ce-11ec-9588-77c571843e9b.html

 

You're welcome now please stop falsely claiming grooming never happens

 

So what? Did they use banned books to reach their goals? ????

The topic is about banning books.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and assaulted students last school year, according to a report released this week."

https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-021144183.html

 

My favourite one single example would be Alden Bunag, it is a standout due to his tweets(absolutely echoing the left wing narrative here) blaming the right wing for making up the grooming issue while at the same time he was grooming children. Busted, big time.

 

it went from

"In posts on Twitter now viral, Bunag accuses conservatives of "defending fascists" and "projecting" in vitriolic exchanges about "groomers" and sex education."

 

to

"The criminal complaint alleged 33-year-old Alden Bunag shared videos of himself "having sexual intercourse with a boy identified by name," referred to in the complaint as 13-year-old "male victim 1."

https://www.kitv.com/news/local/oahu-high-school-teacher-considered-flight-risk-after-child-pornography-charges/article_3d82b38c-f2ce-11ec-9588-77c571843e9b.html

 

You're welcome now please stop falsely claiming grooming never happens

 

Should I have specified homosexual grooming?  Should I have specified in Florida, which is the state this topic is about?

 

From your first link:

 

"Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and assaulted students last school year, according to a report released this week."

"The Chicago Public Schools Office of the Inspector General released its annual report Sunday, saying it substantiated more than 300 misconduct allegations out of more than 600 complaints for the 2021-22 school year."

 

The news story does not specify what kind of "sexually grooming and assaulted" it is referring to.  From the few examples given it appears to be male teachers or teachers of an unspecified sex (most likely male) having sex or inappropriate relations with 16 and 17 year old female students.  That's horrible, illegal, and should be aggressively prosecuted, but that's not what this topic is about.

 

Your second source is about a part-time teacher sharing child pornography of him having sex with a 13 year old boy.  Again, horrible, illegal and should be aggressively prosecuted, but no mention of the child being a student of the pedophile or the of acts involving any school.

 

The fact that you can't come up with pertinent, on-topic examples shows how rare it is.  Heterosexuals having sex with students happens, and should be prosecuted, but that is not what the DeSantis law is about.

Edited February 1, 2023 by heybruce

[Credo]

33 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and assaulted students last school year, according to a report released this week."

https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-021144183.html

 

My favourite one single example would be Alden Bunag, it is a standout due to his tweets(absolutely echoing the left wing narrative here) blaming the right wing for making up the grooming issue while at the same time he was grooming children. Busted, big time.

 

it went from

"In posts on Twitter now viral, Bunag accuses conservatives of "defending fascists" and "projecting" in vitriolic exchanges about "groomers" and sex education."

 

to

"The criminal complaint alleged 33-year-old Alden Bunag shared videos of himself "having sexual intercourse with a boy identified by name," referred to in the complaint as 13-year-old "male victim 1."

https://www.kitv.com/news/local/oahu-high-school-teacher-considered-flight-risk-after-child-pornography-charges/article_3d82b38c-f2ce-11ec-9588-77c571843e9b.html

 

You're welcome now please stop falsely claiming grooming never happens

 

So, let's take a closer look at this.  Your link says 300 substantiated cases, but doesn't say how many staff members that included, since many perpetrators are responsible for more than one case.   It most certainly doesn't spell out what it considers as grooming, and there is nothing to indicate how many involved any type of grooming.  But that's to be expected as your story originates from Fox News.  

You also chose a period of time with unusually high case numbers.  Here's from the actual report:

April 28, 2021
Presentation to the Board of Education Investigations of Sexual Allegations, 

The OIG opened 142 cases
from July 1, 2020, through
March 31, 2021, compared
with 388 cases during the
same period in 2019-20.

 

It would appear that they have been able to reduce the number without banning any books.  

 

The reports you cite includes all staff and vendors for both public and private schools The Chicago public school system has 39,323 staff positions and has 340,658 students.  If you search sexual assaults, Illinois doesn't rate in the top 10.

 

Your other link is for one person.  It is hardly representative of much of anything.   

 

The sexual abuse of children is horrible, but it is clear that banning books has zero influence on it.  

 

https://cpsoig.org/uploads/3/5/5/6/35562484/quarterly_board_presentation_april_4-23-21.pdf

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Public_Schools