2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really?

"Oh dear. Another poster questioning my honesty.

Maybe you should start understanding stuff.

Really  ?

 

" You think it's all about you ? Get over yourself".................

 

 

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You think it's all about you, do you? Get over yourself.  When it comes to issues involving millions of people, there's no way of verifying anyone's personal experience who posts here.  We're all anonymous. If you want to tell us about your experiences, say, in tiling a bathroom, the do's and the do-not's, that's a different matter.

Nope. You are wrong again. It's not all about me, the same it is not about any individual on this forum. It's about discussion, giving ideas, opinions and thoughts. It's about discussing those thoughts and not calling people liars.

 

If you want some tiling advice, never start in the corner. Start from the middle and work your way out 

Just now, transam said:

Really  ?

 

" You think it's all about you ? Get over yourself".................

 

 

He took personally a general statement about the unverifiable nature of personal testimony and its evidentiary uselessness. When in fact, it applies to everyone in this forum.

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Nope. You are wrong again. It's not all about me, the same it is not about any individual on this forum. It's about discussion, giving ideas, opinions and thoughts. It's about discussing those thoughts and not calling people liars.

 I certainly didn't call you a liar. But that you see it that way just reinforces the accuracy of my observation.

Edited February 5, 20233 yr by placeholder

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

He took personally a general statement about the unverifiable nature of personal testimony and its evidentiary uselessness. When in fact, it applies to everyone in this forum.

Actually, you wrote this:

 

"And don't you suggest that your personal reports are verifiable or have any evidentiary value."

 

Notice the use of the word "personal"?

55 minutes ago, transam said:

Have you photos of the masses queuing in the UK for free food....2022/3..

I mean, a bloke here says millions are foodless...

Who needs photos we have official Government data on food poverty and I have already posted a link to the ONS Report.

 

And let’s not misquote each other:

 

 

“I mean, a bloke here says millions are foodless...”

 

I’m sure you mean it, but that is a misrepresentation of my posts on the matter.

 

Feel free to quote me directly, but do not misrepresent posts I have made.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Actually, you wrote this:

 

"And don't you suggest that your personal reports are verifiable or have any evidentiary value."

 

Notice the use of the word "personal"?

Are anyone's personal reports in this forum verifiable?

Do anyone's unverifiable reports in this forum have any evidentiary value?

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Who needs photos we have official Government data on food poverty and I have already posted a link to the ONS Report.

 

And let’s not misquote each other:

 

 

“I mean, a bloke here says millions are foodless...”

 

I’m sure you mean it, but that is a misrepresentation of my posts on the matter.

 

Feel free to quote me directly, but do not misrepresent posts I have made.

 

 

 

Would you like, "millions are in poverty" better......?

 

Now how about addressing 86% of the UK hold passports to venture afar, yet you create the impression of poverty for millions in the UK...

Your poverty is cannot afford the new iPhone, an Indian takeaway, a new car...

This is poverty.....

 

 

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Would you like, "millions are in poverty" better......?

 

Now how about addressing 86% of the UK hold passports to venture afar, yet you create the impression of poverty for millions in the UK...

Your poverty is cannot afford the new iPhone, an Indian takeaway, a new car...

This is poverty.....

 

 

I prefer you stick with the actual comments I’ve made in the context I made them.

I’ve responded to your post on passports.

 

Oh look, you’ve found evidence of poverty elsewhere in the world.

 

That’s relevant to poverty in the UK how?

Edited February 5, 20233 yr by Chomper Higgot

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are anyone's personal reports in this forum verifiable?

Do anyone's unverifiable reports in this forum have any evidentiary value?

Keep digging.......................

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are anyone's personal reports in this forum verifiable?

Do anyone's unverifiable reports in this forum have any evidentiary value?

I don't know. I tend to believe those that post. Why wouldn't I?

 

However, that is not what I was writing about. You said I took exception to a post about "general" posts when in fact you questioned my "personal" posts. I believe that to be a varifiable inaccuracy.

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

I prefer you stick with the actual comments I’ve made in the context I made them.

 

Oh look, you’ve found evidence of poverty elsewhere in the world.

 

That’s relevant to poverty in the UK how?

Is my photo of poverty the same as poverty that is happening in the UK...?

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Keep digging.......................

Once again, you've got nothing.

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Is my photo of poverty the same as poverty that is happening in the UK...?

Erm, no.

 

Those people in the photo you’ve ripped from some corner of the internet is not a photo of poverty in the UK.

 

Perhaps you should visit the UK for an update, you might then not confuse what’s happening outside of the UK with what is happening in the UK.

 

 

Edited February 5, 20233 yr by Chomper Higgot

Just now, placeholder said:

Once again, you've got nothing.

Oh yes, I have, but you can't see it.....

1 minute ago, transam said:

Oh yes, I have, but you can't see it.....

Being invisible, nothing can't be seen.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Erm, no.

 

Those people in the photo you’ve ripped from some corner of the internet is not a photo of poverty in the UK.

 

Perhaps you should visit the UK for an update, you might then not confuse what’s happening outside of the UK with what is happening in the UK.

 

 

Dodge the question, yet again, is the poverty in the UK the same as my photo from another country which has real poverty....

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Erm, no.

 

Those people in the photo you’ve ripped from some corner of the internet is not a photo of poverty in the UK.

 

Perhaps you should visit the UK for an update, you might then not confuse what’s happening outside of the UK with what is happening in the UK.

 

 

We're @transamto visit UK for an update, he would see things for himself, would he not?

 

You suggest that by doing so will educate him as to the situation in UK. If he were then to post his observations on this forum, they would not be believed and be debunked as anecdotal.

 

I'm confused. Come to the UK and see for yourself but don't post what you see as it will be deemed fictitious.

 

???? ???? ???? ???? 

 

 

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

We're @transamto visit UK for an update, he would see things for himself, would he not?

 

You suggest that by doing so will educate him as to the situation in UK. If he were then to post his observations on this forum, they would not be believed and be debunked as anecdotal.

 

I'm confused. Come to the UK and see for yourself but don't post what you see as it will be deemed fictitious.

 

???? ???? ???? ???? 

 

 

He actually thinks I/we have no links to the UK, which is hilarious. We never see photos of his soup kitchen to back things up.

He never looks at our videos posted to back up stories, just lives in his soup kitchen world...

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

We're @transamto visit UK for an update, he would see things for himself, would he not?

 

You suggest that by doing so will educate him as to the situation in UK. If he were then to post his observations on this forum, they would not be believed and be debunked as anecdotal.

 

I'm confused. Come to the UK and see for yourself but don't post what you see as it will be deemed fictitious.

 

???? ???? ???? ???? 

 

 

Still don't get it? It will not be deemed fictitious. It will be deemed unconfirmable. What's more, even if his personal experience could be confirmed, so what? You think one person's report, even if this person were completely unbiased (is there such a person?) would have any  value as data? I have yet to see any studies with titles along the lines of "What Transam Saw Of The Poor Last Time He Was In Blighty"

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Personal experiences often differ. 

 

You said "there is a growing realisation among the electorate that it was sold a pup by the 'Vote Leave' campaign."

 

Not sure where you get your ideas from but I would guess it was the result of a poll. Of course, data gained by polls can differ. This is the issue. I could run a poll amongst leave voters that I know. I believe the result would be close to 100% " No. I wasn't sold a pup".

 

This leads me to those posters who constantly refuse to accept personal experiences because they are so called "unsubstantiated".

 

Where does the so called verifiable data come from? When we see things like  "%%% of leave voters regret their decision" or "%%% of patients wait more than 5 weeks to see the Doctor" or " <>in 5 families say they regularly miss meals" ? POLLS. Simple. Polls from people's personal experiences. Usually citing average figures from asking a few thousand people. Not particularly verifiable.

 

I could walk out of my home right now to make a poll. Using the question " are you struggling financially?" I would first head West. Having walked half a mile I would start my poll. I would get a resounding "NO". Heading East for half a mile the "Yes" responses would start to creep in. As polls are usually carried out for political effect, those carrying out the polls will often use demographics that they know will give them the results they desire. Varifiable data? Not exactly. As can be seen on this forum. Posters talking about packed out supermarkets and high streets. Pubs full if prople having fun, queues of holidaymakers at airports, priority booking Beyonce tickets selling out in the first few hours (at prices that could feed a family of 4 for a week). These sort of personal experiences don't sell newspapers or get clicks on websites and, therefore, are generally not published or polled.

 

I don't understand what point(s) you are trying to make. That data collected by surveys is inferior to individual personal experience? If so, I disagree.

 

As I repeat so often that it is turning into a mantra: If Brexiters refute the validity of the various surveys concluding that Brexit has adversely affected the UK economy, the onus is on them to highlight the flaws in these surveys' findings and/or their methodology(s). To date, nothing has appeared.

 

The UK is a G7 economy. Why should it be a surprise that a large number of its' population can still afford expensive concert tickets or nights out in a pub? The decline is relative. The data - that word again - suggests that a growing number of the population aren't so fortunate. That's the point. The fact that others are more fortunate doesn't negate it.

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Still don't get it? It will not be deemed fictitious. It will be deemed unconfirmable. What's more, even if his personal experience could be confirmed, so what? You think one person's report, even if this person were completely unbiased (is there such a person?) would have any  value as data? I have yet to see any studies with titles along the lines of "What Transam Saw Of The Poor Last Time He Was In Blighty"

"Value as data". 

 

Data comes from the people. Polls, surveys and the like. Who's to know if what Transam saw is not part of a survey?

 

See what I'm saying? The views you deem unconfirmable  are part of the data you deem confirmable.

 

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

I don't understand what point(s) you are trying to make. That data collected by surveys is inferior to individual personal experience? If so, I disagree

No. I didn't say that. I guess you didn't read all of my post.

 

The point I am making is that surveys consist of personal experiences. A surveyer asks a question and members of the public answer using personal experiences.

 

 

7 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

"Value as data". 

 

Data comes from the people. Polls, surveys and the like. Who's to know if what Transam saw is not part of a survey?

 

See what I'm saying? The views you deem unconfirmable  are part of the data you deem confirmable.

 

Yes, I see you're showing you know nothing about surveys and validity.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Yes, I see you're showing you know nothing about surveys and validity.

OK. Please do educate me.

 

As far as I know, people are surveyed. Their responses then become data. Done.

48 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

We're @transamto visit UK for an update, he would see things for himself, would he not?

 

You suggest that by doing so will educate him as to the situation in UK. If he were then to post his observations on this forum, they would not be believed and be debunked as anecdotal.

 

I'm confused. Come to the UK and see for yourself but don't post what you see as it will be deemed fictitious.

 

???? ???? ???? ???? 

 

 

Not quite.

He might, if he were to visit the UK, educate himself on the difference between poverty in the UK and some photo he’s ripped off the internet.

 

His observations would be informative but would not hold more weight than verifiable data, they certainly would hold more weight and be more relevant to the topic under discussion than an image ripped off the internet of poverty in some other part of the world

Let’s remind ourselves of what is the topic of discussion is:

 

“UK economy only G7 nation to shrink in 2023 - IMF”

Here’s an overview of the G7 for those who don’t understand why photos ripped off the internet of poverty elsewhere in the world are an irrelevance to to topic under discussion:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7

14 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. I didn't say that. I guess you didn't read all of my post.

 

The point I am making is that surveys consist of personal experiences. A surveyer asks a question and members of the public answer using personal experiences.

 

So then you will agree that the personal experience of a majority of the UK population is that Brexit has negatively affected the UK economy?

Edited February 5, 20233 yr by RayC
Clarity

42 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

"Value as data". 

 

Data comes from the people. Polls, surveys and the like. Who's to know if what Transam saw is not part of a survey?

 

See what I'm saying? The views you deem unconfirmable  are part of the data you deem confirmable.

 

Some data comes from people, polls, surveys and the like.

 

Other data comes from records, example registers of children receiving free meals, supermarket database transactions, bank records, bankruptcy court records, welfare records etc.

 

All verifiable.

There is more than 1 way of asking a question and how that question is framed will depend on how the question is answered which can then put a totally different concept on the subject.

 

As the useless UK politicians of all colours couldn't organise the proverbial p-up in a brewery (rather like the world over) I would rather suspect that that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that those politicians would rather we didn't know about.

 

Re food banks,there's an old saying 'cut your cloth according to your purse', banks have encouraged us to spend spend spend because it's in their best interests,low interest rates have lulled people into a false sense of security and who wins at the end of the day-the bankers and the politicians.There is also the other way of looking at things and the operative word is greed,if there is something going free there are always people who will take advantage,when people turn up at food banks in new vehicles that is greed,the amount of money the stupid Tories are throwing around(and Labour would be no better and probably even worse if that was possible)is ridiculous because at the end of the day that money has to be paid back by the tax payer.

35 minutes ago, RayC said:

So then you will agree that the personal experience of a majority of the UK population is that Brexit has negatively affected the UK economy?

If the majority were surveyed. I doubt they were