Being taxed whilst waiting for work visa & permit. Fair?

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, SuperSilverHaze said:

I'd be more concerned about being overtaxed which I'm guessing you are. Usually the way this goes is they are deducting tax but it's going into someone's pocket. You'll have to pay again lol. Have a tax id? No? You're not paying taxes

He already said it's 3% so neither is he being overtaxed nor is there anything fishy about it, it's the withholding tax the payer has to deduct from the payment for professional services.

[brewsterbudgen]

2 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

He already said it's 3% so neither is he being overtaxed nor is there anything fishy about it, it's the withholding tax the payer has to deduct from the payment for professional services.

I'm not sure many people actually bother to read all the posts!

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:56 PM, Deserted said:

Hi there all. I have accepted a job in Thailand and been doing it for about 3 months but the school have asked me to get all my documents in order and sort the process out myself, which I have nearly done. I am working for them on a tourist visa,

LOL. If you are working on a tourist visa you can expect a visit from the plod to arrest you, for working illegally.

[SuperSilverHaze]

16 hours ago, eisfeld said:

He already said it's 3% so neither is he being overtaxed nor is there anything fishy about it, it's the withholding tax the payer has to deduct from the payment for professional services.

Ok, 3%. I don't see how that's reported without a tax id.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, SuperSilverHaze said:

Ok, 3%. I don't see how that's reported without a tax id.

It's not being reported, of that I am pretty sure. 

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, SuperSilverHaze said:

Ok, 3%. I don't see how that's reported without a tax id.

It's the payer who withholds the tax and pays it under their tax id. The other party (payee) does not need to have a tax id for that nor do they need to file reports.

 

Similar as with for example VAT. A shop has to add a 7% tax on a sale and they don't need to know your tax id for it.

[ChaiyaTH]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. If you are working on a tourist visa you can expect a visit from the plod to arrest you, for working illegally.

Guess they could arrest like 300-500 people just on a few islands down south here, if they wanted too....

Edited February 4, 2023 by ChaiyaTH

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Guess they could arrest like 300-500 people just on a few islands down south here, if they wanted too....

Since the glory days of the 90s, it's been getting harder to visit Thailand frequently on tourist visas or visa exempt, presumably because people are abusing the system.

Makes me wonder why I bothered ensuring all my visits were legal.

I don't have any sympathy for those that do break the law and get caught.

[BangkokReady]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:57 AM, JonnyF said:

I wouldn't kick up too much of a fuss if I was you.

And so it begins...

[BangkokReady]

On 2/3/2023 at 2:12 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. If you are working on a tourist visa you can expect a visit from the plod to arrest you, for working illegally.

Have you ever actually heard of this happening to a teacher waiting to get a non-B?

[digbeth]

in case of withheld tax, it'd have to be done and sent to the revenue department within 7 days after the month that you'd been paid, 

you'll be given a document stating the withheld tax

 

while the withholding tax is usually 3% and seem to require a tax or citizen ID no., as that's what resident and those with work permit pays, it's actually also possible for non resident( the revenue department classify this as foreigner staying within the Kingdom for less than 180days) but the withholding rate for non-resident is actually 15%

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

17 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Have you ever actually heard of this happening to a teacher waiting to get a non-B?

Never.  It's pretty much standard practice and has always been, but people seem to like to scare newbie teachers!

[VocalNeal]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:53 PM, DrJoy said:

A TIN is required to deposit tax online or at the RDs Local Office.

 

You are being scammed

As far as I can see he is being employed, not scammed.. If he doesn't want to pay tax he can stop earning????

Somewhere in an office is a person inputting info into a salary programme which makes all the calculations. No malice there.

[youreavinalaff]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

As far as I can see he is being employed, not scammed.. If he doesn't want to pay tax he can stop earning????

Somewhere in an office is a person inputting info into a salary programme which makes all the calculations. No malice there.

He is having tax deducted by his employers. Are they then forwarding those payments to revenue department?

 

Due to the fact he does not have a tax ID, they have not asked him his personal details re marriage, kids, etc in order to calculate tax breaks, I eould suggest they are not forwarding them.

 

Besides, there is no law to say one cannot go to the revenue department at end of tax year and pay outstanding tax oneself.

[eisfeld]

11 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

He is having tax deducted by his employers. Are they then forwarding those payments to revenue department?

That is what normally happens.

 

11 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Due to the fact he does not have a tax ID, they have not asked him his personal details re marriage, kids, etc in order to calculate tax breaks, I eould suggest they are not forwarding them.

Please read my previous posts in this thread. This is a withholding tax and has nothing to do with his tax ID, his personal circumstances re marriage etc as there are no tax breaks as you suggested in this case no matter what. It has nothing to do with income tax which most people only seem to consider.

 

He is not being taxed as an employee but as a contractor.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by eisfeld

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, eisfeld said:

That is what normally happens.

 

Please read my previous posts in this thread. This is a withholding tax and has nothing to do with his tax ID, his personal circumstances re marriage etc as there are no tax breaks as you suggested in this case no matter what. It has nothing to do with income tax which most people only seem to consider.

 

He is not being taxed as an employee but as a contractor.

 

Having been a teacher in Thailand and never having been taxed this 3% by law, I would have to disagree with you.

 

With regards to being a contractor, contracts attract duty and are taxed upon signing the contract. Not from salary. The rate is 1% of total annual renumeration.

[eisfeld]

12 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Having been a teacher in Thailand and never having been taxed this 3% by law, I would have to disagree with you.

 

With regards to being a contractor, contracts attract duty and are taxed upon signing the contract. Not from salary. The rate is 1% of total annual renumeration.

If you are employed then there is no witholding tax. You are being paid a salary and have to pay income tax on that. There are also social security payments.

 

A contractor does not get paid a salary. There is a 0.1% (not 1%) stamp duty for hire for work contracts but IIRC only if 1M Baht is exceeded which for a teacher is highly unlikely.

 

Let's not add more confusion.

[brewsterbudgen]

15 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

If you are employed then there is no witholding tax. You are being paid a salary and have to pay income tax on that. There are also social security payments.

 

A contractor does not get paid a salary. There is a 0.1% (not 1%) stamp duty for hire for work contracts but IIRC only if 1M Baht is exceeded which for a teacher is highly unlikely.

 

Let's not add more confusion.

@eisfeld You have the patience of a saint! ????

[FritsSikkink]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:57 AM, JonnyF said:

Sounds like the school is aware that you are not paying tax (since you are working on a tourist visa), so they are reducing the salary they pay you by the amount you should be paying and keeping the difference themselves. 

 

 

Where did you get that wisdom from? The school would pay the tax as they are required by law to do so. Not having a work permit is a completely different issue.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

If you are employed then there is no witholding tax. You are being paid a salary and have to pay income tax on that. There are also social security payments.

 

A contractor does not get paid a salary. There is a 0.1% (not 1%) stamp duty for hire for work contracts but IIRC only if 1M Baht is exceeded which for a teacher is highly unlikely.

 

Let's not add more confusion.

Teachers are contractors. They sign contracts each year.

 

The last time I was at immigration to get an extension of stay I was sent to the revenue department to get stamps on my contract.

 

I paid 1% of my total annual salary, as per the rules. Rules, I have to say, I was previously aware of. I read Thai and asked to see the rule in writing. The staff at revenue department duly obliged.

[eisfeld]

22 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Teachers are contractors. They sign contracts each year.

 

The last time I was at immigration to get an extension of stay I was sent to the revenue department to get stamps on my contract.

 

I paid 1% of my total annual salary, as per the rules. Rules, I have to say, I was previously aware of. I read Thai and asked to see the rule in writing. The staff at revenue department duly obliged.

You can't just generally claim that teachers are contractors. Some are, some are not. Signing an employment contract for example does not make you a contractor, it makes you an employee. But some teachers are just signing limited contracts.

 

What exact rules are you referring to? What duty or tax exactly are you referring to? Please either specify the name or the relevant paragraph in the revenue code so I can read up on it. Thanks.

[youreavinalaff]

38 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

You can't just generally claim that teachers are contractors. Some are, some are not. Signing an employment contract for example does not make you a contractor, it makes you an employee. But some teachers are just signing limited contracts.

 

What exact rules are you referring to? What duty or tax exactly are you referring to? Please either specify the name or the relevant paragraph in the revenue code so I can read up on it. Thanks.

I have explained twice. Surely that is enough.

[FritsSikkink]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I have explained twice. Surely that is enough.

You have explained the withholding tax, there are also people who don't pay withholding tax as they are regular employees who have a tax number, they need to pay income tax which is being withheld on a monthly basis. After the tax year ends the employee needs to fill in form where they state their income, tax and social security paid and any deductions they think they have. Then the tax office will do an audit and declares what the definite tax for last years is. People then either get money back or have to pay additional tax.   

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

I have explained twice. Surely that is enough.

Evidently not and it also doesn't match what OP stated (3% deducted).

 

Here a link to the official Stamp Duty Schedule on the website of the Revenue Department of Thailand: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37773.html

 

Under "Hire of Work" it states 1 baht for every 1000 Baht of renumeration. That's 0.1%.

 

Maybe some other duty was applied? I don't know and that's why I asked you for the name or paragraph so I can look it up. But seems like you can't or are unwilling to supply that information.

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You have explained the withholding tax, there are also people who don't pay withholding tax as they are regular employees who have a tax number, they need to pay income tax which is being withheld on a monthly basis. After the tax year ends the employee needs to fill in form where they state their income, tax and social security paid and any deductions they think they have. Then the tax office will do an audit and declares what the definite tax for last years is. People then either get money back or have to pay additional tax.   

I did not explain about witholding tax. That was someone else.

 

I always paid my own tax at the end of the year. I go to Sam pa gorn between 1st January and 31st March. The only deduction from my salary was social security at 750 baht per month.

[FriendlyFarang]

3% sounds like withholding tax for professional services.

This would of course imply that you work as freelancer, which is not possible as a foreigner in Thailand. So they basically treat you as if you are working on your own and are just contracted by them, not that you are their employee.

If it's withholding tax that they are deducting, they have to issue you a withholding tax certificate every time they deduct it: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/frm_WTC.pdf

[Pouatchee]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:03 AM, Doctor Tom said:

They are.  Your sentence above answers your question. You work, you pay tax. You are in effect being 'emergency taxed', as is done in the UK and US, before your documentation is in order. It should be rectified once that happens, but this is Thailand, so good luck with that. 

Not true. Teachers DONT NEED TO PAY ANY TAX in their first year here. After a year of work, you then must pay taxes no matter whether you change job or not. Also, any new job you take you don't need to pay taxes until you have work permit.

[Doctor Tom]

31 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

Not true. Teachers DONT NEED TO PAY ANY TAX in their first year here. After a year of work, you then must pay taxes no matter whether you change job or not. Also, any new job you take you don't need to pay taxes until you have work permit.

good luck with that idea. 

[Pouatchee]

2 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

good luck with that idea. 

Not an idea, a fact.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

Not true. Teachers DONT NEED TO PAY ANY TAX in their first year here. After a year of work, you then must pay taxes no matter whether you change job or not. Also, any new job you take you don't need to pay taxes until you have work permit.

Incorrect.

 

You need a tax return to renew work permit too, so there's no avoiding it.