Netanyahu says don’t get ‘hung up’ on peace with Palestinians first

[Hummin]

21 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

it is so strange, is there any other country whose very right to exist is debated?  So many anti-Israel types say, "well of course Israel has the right to exist, but...."  Wow, how magnanimous.  

The biggest mistakes post war was creating Israel and Pakistan in my opinion. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The biggest mistakes post war was creating Israel and Pakistan in my opinion. 

 

 

So it should have remained a British colony?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So it should have remained a British colony?

I don't believe it should have but undeniably that would have been a better outcome for the Palestinians than the current status quo.

[Hummin]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So it should have remained a British colony?

No, but there had been given promises when they joined the Allied during the ww2, and fought side by side with the Jews, even back then the Jews was the terrorists fighting their fight for independence in the area. As well before the Palestinians also fought against the ottoman empire also promised their own land. They where rewarded with being expelled from their land, and finely ended up in refugee (concentration) camps. 5 million Palestinians still living in refugee camps today. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No, but there had been given promises when they joined the Allied during the ww2, and fought side by side with the Jews, even back then the Jews was the terrorists fighting their fight for independence in the area. As well before the Palestinians also fought against the ottoman empire also promised their own land. They where rewarded with being expelled from their land, and finely ended up in refugee (concentration) camps. 5 million Palestinians still living in refugee camps today. 

 

 

The Arabs rejected the partition.

The Grand Mufti actively tried to get Hitler to extend the holocaust to the middle east.

Refugee camps?

Whu didn't the Arab world integrate them?

Compare to how the Jews expelled by the Jewish Nakba got over being refugees very fast and normally .

Your use of the word concentration  camps of Arabs sounds intentionally inflammatory in the historical context 

As I suspected you have no realistic alternative 

Just the same old demonize Israel garbage.

So what now?

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No, but there had been given promises when they joined the Allied during the ww2, and fought side by side with the Jews, even back then the Jews was the terrorists fighting their fight for independence in the area. As well before the Palestinians also fought against the ottoman empire also promised their own land. They where rewarded with being expelled from their land, and finely ended up in refugee (concentration) camps. 5 million Palestinians still living in refugee camps today. 

 

 

Haj Amin al Husseini was the Palestinian leader of Nationalism  and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and he collaborated with the Nazis .

  Here he is inspecting a concentration camp in WW2 .

Much of the Arab World  and Palestinians world sided with the Nazis in WW2

 

 

 

   Palestinian leadership inspecting a concertation camp in WW2

[Mac Mickmanus]

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No, but there had been given promises when they joined the Allied during the ww2, and fought side by side with the Jews, even back then the Jews was the terrorists fighting their fight for independence in the area. As well before the Palestinians also fought against the ottoman empire also promised their own land. 

 

 

They WERE given their own land .

The Palestinians were given a Country called Palestine with Palestinian people living in it and ruling the Country.

   The Palestinians rejected the offer of a Country .

The promise were fulfilled and they WERE given a Country .

They refused the offer

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The Arabs rejected the partition.

The Grand Mufti actively tried to get Hitler to extend the holocaust to the middle east.

Refugee camps?

Whu didn't the Arab world integrate them?

Compare to how the Jews expelled by the Jewish Nakba got over being refugees very fast and normally .

Your use of the word concentration  camps of Arabs sounds intentionally inflammatory in the historical context 

As I suspected you have no realistic alternative 

Just the same old demonize Israel garbage.

So what now?

Why didn't the Jews just stay where they had been for hundreds of years?

 

I'm not against a homeland for Jews but they have to understand that they did displace other populations to get it. I don't buy that their ancestors left a few old temples a thousand years ago so they now have the right to claim that land and ride roughshod over the modern inhabitants. Most claims to an independent state are premised on present majority occupation, like the breakup of Yugoslavia and the issue with Kurds and Tibetans. Ancient history isn't a valid excuse for perpetrating crimes against humanity.

 

People can point to tenuous reasons to justify the creation of Israel but none of that detracts from the fact that they are now committing war crimes on a massive scale. Modern Jews have little ethnic links to the Jews that lived there 1000 years ago in numbers. Most have mixed European blood due to living in Europe for many hundreds of years. They are ethnically as mixed and any other Europeans. Their religion gives then no special right to claim ownership of land. No religion does.

Edited February 4, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The Arabs rejected the partition.

The Grand Mufti actively tried to get Hitler to extend the holocaust to the middle east.

Refugee camps?

Whu didn't the Arab world integrate them?

Compare to how the Jews expelled by the Jewish Nakba got over being refugees very fast and normally .

Your use of the word concentration  camps of Arabs sounds intentionally inflammatory in the historical context 

As I suspected you have no realistic alternative 

Just the same old demonize Israel garbage.

So what now?

Obviously you have picked a side, and have a coloured view on it. It is many neutral analysis about how the conflicts have been in the region before and after, and no, Im not coming with any anti demonizing Israel <deleted>. 

 

Israel as a state was a mistake and still is! Should never been because it was unwanted inn the region. 

 

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Obviously you have picked a side, and have a coloured view on it. It is many neutral analysis about how the conflicts have been in the region before and after, and no, Im not coming with any anti demonizing Israel <deleted>. 

 

Israel as a state was a mistake and still is! Should never been because it was unwanted inn the region. 

 

 

Nope, unlike you I have no dog in the fight. I believe my political and social viewpoints are based on an abjective analysis of history as I understand it. I don't engage in tribal politics or allegiances of any kind. I feel comfortable criticising my own country and acknowledging the crimes of its past. You should too.

Edited February 4, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Nope, unlike you I have no dog in the fight. I believe my political and social viewpoints are based on an abjective analysis of history as I understand it. I don't engage in tribal politics or allegiances of any kind. I feel comfortable criticising my own country and acknowledging the crimes of its past. You should too.

My reply was to Jingting? 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Obviously you have picked a side, and have a coloured view on it. It is many neutral analysis about how the conflicts have been in the region before and after, and no, Im not coming with any anti demonizing Israel <deleted>. 

 

Israel as a state was a mistake and still is! Should never been because it was unwanted inn the region. 

 

 

Never mind the history of the Jewish people during thousands of years in the diaspora. 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

My reply was to Jingting? 

sorry, I thought I was replying to him as well. I'm more interested in expressing ideas than about responses to specific posters.

Edited February 4, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Never mind the history of the Jewish people during thousands of years in the diaspora. 

What you refer to is emotional, not objective or even a historic right! 

 

 

[onthedarkside]

Troll post removed

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What you refer to is emotional, not objective or even a historic right! 

 

 

Historical fact about the persecution for thousands of years in the diaspora. That is as real as it gets even if you don’t get it.

That's what gave rise to political Zionism long before the holocaust.

It's OK if you're anti Zionist. 

But the Zionists won.

So now what?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Jingthing

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Historical fact about the persecution for thousands of years in the diaspora. That is as real as it gets even if you don’t get it.

That's what gave rise to political Zionism long before the holocaust.

It's OK if you're anti Zionist. 

But the Zionists won.

So now what?

Im surprised you feel like that when I know your strong feelings for the Invasion of Ukraine. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Hummin

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Im surprised you feel like that when I know your strong feelings for the Invasion of Ukraine. 

 

 

Not too different to the invasion of America by Europeans in the 1700's

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Im surprised you feel like that when I know your strong feelings for the Invasion of Ukraine. 

 

 

Don't even bother trying to conflate those situations  That is disingenuous and perverted.

You and others claim no side 

Bull!.

Its the side of anti Zionism, Israel demonization, and no regard for the right of Israel to exist 

It is truly nauseating.

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Don't even bother trying to conflate those situations  That is disingenuous and perverted.

You and others claim no side 

Bull!.

Its the side of anti Zionism, Israel demonization, and no regard for the right of Israel to exist 

It is truly nauseating.

You can blaim me for many things, I really do not care what you call me, especially when millions of people suffers, and have been suffering their whole life because of the state Israels right to exists. 

 

I stand by my words, creating Israel was wrong! 

 

I do not say Israel should stop exists, now it is to late. What is the future solution thats the question, not what have been in past! 

 

Just feeling the temperature in this tread, you know in real life for the people in the region, it will be Impossible if not complete surrender from Palestinians.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You can blaim me for many things, I really do not care what you call me, especially when millions of people suffers, and have been suffering their whole life because of the state Israels right to exists. 

 

I stand by my words, creating Israel was wrong! 

 

I do not say Israel should stop exists, now it is to late. What is the future solution thats the question, not what have been in past! 

 

Just feeling the temperature in this tread, you know in real life for the people in the region, it will be Impossible if not complete surrender from Palestinians.

 

 

 

As I've said the most logical eventual path forward is a binational state with the then minority Jews rights fully protected by its constitutional structure and perhaps UN or US security presence.  No two state solution. Thats over. No way for the Arabs to destroy the Jewish character including the right of return.  Details? I haven't a clue. Great leadership will be required on both sides. Nothing like that now. The carrots for the Arabs would be improved quality of life, prosperity, health care, education, LGBT rights, and peace dividends. Being partnered with Israel among the most advanced nations could be an incredible step forward for the Arabs in that region.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Jingthing

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You can blaim me for many things, I really do not care what you call me, especially when millions of people suffers, and have been suffering their whole life because of the state Israels right to exists. 

 

I stand by my words, creating Israel was wrong! 

 

I do not say Israel should stop exists, now it is to late. What is the future solution thats the question, not what have been in past! 

 

Just feeling the temperature in this tread, you know in real life for the people in the region, it will be Impossible if not complete surrender from Palestinians.

 

 

 

Palestinians are suffering because they rejected the offer of a Country , you cannot blame Israel or the Israelis for the Palestinians choices .

   Had the Palestinians and Arab World accepted the Israeli state , there would have been no suffering from the Palestinians 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Palestinians are suffering because they rejected the offer of a Country , you cannot blame Israel or the Israelis for the Palestinians choices .

   Had the Palestinians and Arab World accepted the Israeli state , there would have been no suffering from the Palestinians 

You just come up with a popular well established truth. Have you read any background history about the region going little bit further than just the creation of Isreal?

 

Just empty babble, sorry

[placnx]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, the west bank settlements are there to stay. Yet another reason that it's too late to take the two state solution seriously. 

In the end, can Israelis endure getting the South African treatment? Palestinian citizens of Israel are second class citizens, while Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are bordering on stateless, with hundreds of checkpoints and economic isolation. BDS is the progressive movement to end this:

https://bdsmovement.net/

 

Netanyahu & Co have over the years created an atmosphere of siege, that compromise is an existential threat to the state. Meanwhile the Greater Israel project proceeds. With this new government, the world will clearly see that Israel is not a true democracy, and it's moral contradictions will be plain to see.

 

 

[placnx]

16 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The  Israel situation is unique , cannot compare it to any other situation 

That's what hard core Zionists would have us think.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, placnx said:

That's what hard core Zionists would have us think.

All occurrences in the World are different and unique.

Can you name another situation that is identical to the Israeli/Palestinian situation dating back 4000 years and involves Judaism and Islam  ?

 

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, placnx said:

In the end, can Israelis endure getting the South African treatment? Palestinian citizens of Israel are second class citizens, while Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are bordering on stateless, with hundreds of checkpoints and economic isolation. BDS is the progressive movement to end this:

https://bdsmovement.net/

 

Netanyahu & Co have over the years created an atmosphere of siege, that compromise is an existential threat to the state. Meanwhile the Greater Israel project proceeds. With this new government, the world will clearly see that Israel is not a true democracy, and it's moral contradictions will be plain to see.

 

 

So you hope.

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, placnx said:

That's what hard core Zionists would have us think.

More like that's what rational people think.

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, placnx said:

That's what hard core Zionists would have us think.

Hard core Zionist.

As if Zionism is a bad thing.

No translation needed.

 

 

[placnx]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

A bit different. Crimea was part of a sovereign nation (Ukraine). Which sovereign nation did the Palestinian land belong to?  

 

The toothpaste is out of the tube. Israel exists (despite Hamas efforts).  Time for the Palestinians to deal with reality instead of their fevered and homicidal dreams of martyrdom. 

First of all, Crimea was part of Russia from 1783 until Khruschev incorporated it into Ukraine in 1954. The story is complicated.

 

Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire until the First World War. At that time the British promised the Sharif of Mecca that, in return for revolt against the Ottomans, the Arab lands would be independent, including geographical Palestine. There was some contradiction with the 1917 Balfour Declaration promising Lord Rothschild the creation of a Jewish homeland.

 

The reality for West Bank Palestinians is being harassed and killed by encroaching settlers. What would you do in their place? Israel's activity in the West Bank harks back to 19th Century colonialism with extraterritorial legal treatment for settlers.