Ukraine war: Zelensky asks France and Germany for fighter jets

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I sincerely hope NATO and others become involved and blow Putin's army & his cronies out of the water.

That's the only way to end this conflict and stop the war.    imo

I think you have said as much before and I have replied that such action by NATO will probably result in WW3, which will likely kill a lot more people than in the entire Ukraine.

 

So far, I believe that the people that actually make such decisions have decided that Ukraine isn't worth the destruction of their own countries.

 

Your way isn't the only way to end the war as it could end next week if the allies told Zelensky to negotiate an end to it and threatened to stop sending munitions if he didn't.

 

[steven100]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you have said as much before and I have replied that such action by NATO will probably result in WW3, which will likely kill a lot more people than in the entire Ukraine.

 

So far, I believe that the people that actually make such decisions have decided that Ukraine isn't worth the destruction of their own countries.

 

Your way isn't the only way to end the war as it could end next week if the allies told Zelensky to negotiate an end to it and threatened to stop sending munitions if he didn't.

 

sorry disagree ....  wipe them off the face of the earth so they can't invade other countries again.

your solution doesn't ensure future peace and safety for others near Russia's borders, mine does.

 

[Tug]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you have said as much before and I have replied that such action by NATO will probably result in WW3, which will likely kill a lot more people than in the entire Ukraine.

 

So far, I believe that the people that actually make such decisions have decided that Ukraine isn't worth the destruction of their own countries.

 

Your way isn't the only way to end the war as it could end next week if the allies told Zelensky to negotiate an end to it and threatened to stop sending munitions if he didn't.

 

Putin won’t stop with Ukraine the world learned that lesson on the last go round it’s not going to be allowed to happen again and another thought a dictator ie Putin having to use criminals out of prison to fight his war is not in a position of strength that’s weak slava Ukraine ???????? 

[paddypower]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you have said as much before and I have replied that such action by NATO will probably result in WW3, which will likely kill a lot more people than in the entire Ukraine.

 

So far, I believe that the people that actually make such decisions have decided that Ukraine isn't worth the destruction of their own countries.

 

Your way isn't the only way to end the war as it could end next week if the allies told Zelensky to negotiate an end to it and threatened to stop sending munitions if he didn't.

 

I agree, somewhat. How do we learn from history? . The last time we had a decision that affected most of the civilized world, in 1939. Ironically the Soviet invasion of Poland was a ''military operation to save our blood brothers, the Ukranians'' without a formal declaration of war. Sept 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, 16 days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west.

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts and replies removed, the topic is about:

 

Zelensky asks France and Germany for fighter jets

[300sd]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:29 PM, vandeventer said:

We all know who started this invasion, and I agree with you, there must be a time to say no to Ukraine to prevent ww3.

Yes we all know who started the invasion. Some know who started the war!

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, 300sd said:

Yes we all know who started the invasion. Some know who started the war!

That's obvious; the same country started both.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, steven100 said:

sorry disagree ....  wipe them off the face of the earth so they can't invade other countries again.

your solution doesn't ensure future peace and safety for others near Russia's borders, mine does.

 

That isn't IMO a sensible option. You write as though it's a one sided action and Russia has no means to annihilate Europe in response.

 

your solution doesn't ensure future peace and safety for others near Russia's borders, mine does.

No country has ever been safe from war in the entire history of countries. Your solution is impractical for a variety of reasons, just one of which would be millions of refugees migrating to Europe, unless you are wanting a sort of "final solution" for the entire Russian population.

You speak as if Russia were the only country in the entire world that is a danger to the west, ignoring the huge problem emerging in the east.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, 300sd said:

Yes we all know who started the invasion. Some know who started the war!

and some know how it's going to end, despite the west spending billions on war material, that should be spent supporting their own populations.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, paddypower said:

I agree, somewhat. How do we learn from history? . The last time we had a decision that affected most of the civilized world, in 1939. Ironically the Soviet invasion of Poland was a ''military operation to save our blood brothers, the Ukranians'' without a formal declaration of war. Sept 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, 16 days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west.

Sadly, we don't learn from history. Every war starts with the gung ho off for glory and ends with a lot of tears from widows and orphans.

Escalating this proxy war in the Great Game by sending fighter planes is only going to result in many more tears, IMO. The Game then moves on to other conflicts.

[liddelljohn]

If we dont help Ukraine then Kazakstan will be next on Putrids list then Poland , Finland ,etc  he must be  prevented   and  punished even if it means WW3  , does the lesson of Hitler and WW2 not register on some idiots tiny brains

 

The russian people are being sent for cannon fodder  by a lunatic power mad despot ,  I dont trust USA OR uk POLITICIANS much ,

 

You do not kowtow to Bullies ,,  do nothing and it only encourages more outrages and suffering

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

If we dont help Ukraine then Kazakstan will be next on Putrids list then Poland , Finland ,etc  he must be  prevented   and  punished even if it means WW3  , does the lesson of Hitler and WW2 not register on some idiots tiny brains

 

The russian people are being sent for cannon fodder  by a lunatic power mad despot ,  I dont trust USA OR uk POLITICIANS much ,

 

You do not kowtow to Bullies ,,  do nothing and it only encourages more outrages and suffering

 

 

Why do posters keep saying Poland is next? Poland is in NATO.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

If we dont help Ukraine then Kazakstan will be next on Putrids list then Poland , Finland ,etc  he must be  prevented   and  punished even if it means WW3  , does the lesson of Hitler and WW2 not register on some idiots tiny brains

 

The russian people are being sent for cannon fodder  by a lunatic power mad despot ,  I dont trust USA OR uk POLITICIANS much ,

 

You do not kowtow to Bullies ,,  do nothing and it only encourages more outrages and suffering

 

 

Yes there is no decent choice but to fight him. He will not stop. The appeasers have lost the plot. 

 

 

[Tug]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you have said as much before and I have replied that such action by NATO will probably result in WW3, which will likely kill a lot more people than in the entire Ukraine.

 

So far, I believe that the people that actually make such decisions have decided that Ukraine isn't worth the destruction of their own countries.

 

Your way isn't the only way to end the war as it could end next week if the allies told Zelensky to negotiate an end to it and threatened to stop sending munitions if he didn't.

 

I’m not so sure you are correct in the Korean War and in Vietnam Russia supplied fighters and attack aircraft to our foes it didn’t result in ww3 the main difference I see is putin covets Ukraine ???????? the Ukrainians ain’t having it if properly supported they will vanquish the orks and hopefully Putin himself slava Ukraine ???????? 

[liddelljohn]

Vietnam war was uneccessary war  The USA made a big error in getting involved , they thought they were saving Vietnam from the Communists . But that was not actually true.

 

Vietnam had been  under Chinese domination and Kymer domination for hundreds of years , then The French came then the japanese  and after WW2 the French again, Ho Chi Min  was patriot who wanted Vietnam free of Foreign Domination  he was a western educated socialist  but disliked and mistrusted the Russians as much as Chinese .   The South Vietnam government  after 1956  was controlled by the rentier  class of capitalist Francophile land lord class who exploited the peasants , 90 % of the souths population wanted  to be unified with the North under a free socialist government  Vietnam run by the Vietnamese..

 

The British who had only recently suppressed communists in Indonesia  and Malaysia before  giving those countries freedom from Empire advised the Americans in 1963  to let Ho Chi Min take control of all of Vietnam and then there would have been NO war NO destruction of Laos or Cambodia , and no massive loss of life or waste of Millions of $ . And USA would have a friendly   peaceful prosperous  socialist  one partygovernment but anti Russia and China interference . which is what we actually have Today

 

But the USA was paranoid  and  just saw Commies everywhere , and  so went oto the aid of the corrupt  venal South Vietnam government  which was  incompetent and had virtually no support from the peasants and workers ....  

 

Dont forget who got rid of Polpot in 1979 it was not the bleating West , nor the Chinese or Russians , but Vietnam  , and they were condemned by the world for freeing Cambodia of its horrors , and were also invaded by China , who they soundly beat in a short war .

 

Ukraine is an independent  Democratic European country that has been invaded   we must help them. Sane as we would help Taiwan,    Even Today Vietnams military is  prepared for war with China as its greatest and  only Threat .

 

 

The intervention in Iraq and Afganistan  were bad mistakes  and poorly handled  that could have been done better ,, 

 

Russia has its own version of Nato   called CSTO  which is disintegrating as now only 6 countries  are  in it and they no longer trust Putin either .

Edited February 11, 2023 by liddelljohn

[Tug]

38 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

Vietnam war was uneccessary war  The USA made a big error in getting involved , they thought they were saving Vietnam from the Communists . But that was not actually true.

 

Vietnam had been  under Chinese domination and Kymer domination for hundreds of years , then The French came then the japanese  and after WW2 the French again, Ho Chi Min  was patriot who wanted Vietnam free of Foreign Domination  he was a western educated socialist  but disliked and mistrusted the Russians as much as Chinese .   The South Vietnam government  after 1956  was controlled by the rentier  class of capitalist Francophile land lord class who exploited the peasants , 90 % of the souths population wanted  to be unified with the North under a free socialist government  Vietnam run by the Vietnamese..

 

The British who had only recently suppressed communists in Indonesia  and Malaysia before  giving those countries freedom from Empire advised the Americans in 1963  to let Ho Chi Min take control of all of Vietnam and then there would have been NO war NO destruction of Laos or Cambodia , and no massive loss of life or waste of Millions of $ . And USA would have a friendly   peaceful prosperous  socialist  one partygovernment but anti Russia and China interference . which is what we actually have Today

 

But the USA was paranoid  and  just saw Commies everywhere , and  so went oto the aid of the corrupt  venal South Vietnam government  which was  incompetent and had virtually no support from the peasants and workers ....  

 

Dont forget who got rid of Polpot in 1979 it was not the bleating West , nor the Chinese or Russians , but Vietnam  , and they were condemned by the world for freeing Cambodia of its horrors , and were also invaded by China , who they soundly beat in a short war .

 

Ukraine is an independent  Democratic European country that has been invaded   we must help them. Sane as we would help Taiwan,    Even Today Vietnams military is  prepared for war with China as its greatest and  only Threat .

 

 

The intervention in Iraq and Afganistan  were bad mistakes  and poorly handled  that could have been done better ,, 

 

Russia has its own version of Nato   called CSTO  which is disintegrating as now only 6 countries  are  in it and they no longer trust Putin either .

I’m in agreement with you in hindsight it was a horrible blunder at the time our government thought it was necessary but my point remains giving the Ukrainians aircraft won’t necessarily start ww3 I believe we should help them in anyway possible short of boots on the ground or our military pilots in the air,now volunteer pilots…….also on a further note relations between Vietnam and the United States has greatly improved over the years that’s a good thing in my book

[morrobay]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why do posters keep saying Poland is next? Poland is in NATO.

Because they are hung up on the so called domino effect. Just give Putin 20% of East Ukraine that is Russian anyway and that will put an end to this. 

[Saanim]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:26 AM, Bkk Brian said:

No need for psychics, take a listen Putin's Peter the Great speech. This is Putin's Imperial war of conquest.

You surely have a plausible link to his speech in full. But please, spare us of the links where his speech was reinterpreted.  

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

You surely have a plausible link to his speech in full. But please, spare us of the links where his speech was reinterpreted.  

Yes I have, if you want to start a topic on it start one and I'll share it. However see the post I replied to and why.  Then look at the topic of this OP.

[Saanim]

23 hours ago, steven100 said:

sorry disagree ....  wipe them off the face of the earth so they can't invade other countries again.

your solution doesn't ensure future peace and safety for others near Russia's borders, mine does.

 

"Wipe them off the face of the earth so they can't invade other countries again"? 

Then, how many armies will be left on the earth?

[Saanim]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes I have, if you want to start a topic on it start one and I'll share it. However see the post I replied to and why.  Then look at the topic of this OP.

I cannot find in OP anything what you posted.

Anyway, anything can be twisted. Some off-topics are not harmful for the debate (I call them off-topic Positive) some are not wishful (I call them off-topic Negative), we better do not want to see them.   

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Saanim said:

I cannot find in OP anything what you posted.

Anyway, anything can be twisted. Some off-topics are not harmful for the debate (I call them off-topic Positive) some are not wishful (I call them off-topic Negative), we better do not want to see them.   

[Saanim]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:29 AM, rabas said:

'War is a perfect timing for military and criminals to engage on armaments black market.'

 

Viktor! 

 

I wonder how Viktor Bout is doing. Last I read, he pledged undying love for Mr. Putin, who now owns him, and rushed off to Ukraine saying he truly believed in what Putin was doing there. He didn't specifically mention utter human brutality and destruction. I assume he is on a special mission.

 

But therein lies your difference. Putin employing the most corrupt people imaginable for his illegal war. Zelensky ridding his country of corruption.

 

 

I took it that you write it with tongue-in-cheek. 

Or did you mean Viktor Bout could contribute something of his skill? What would be his portion in the $120B already spent?

[Saanim]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:30 AM, placeholder said:

You're also unaware but Putin has said he wants to restore the Russian empire back to what it was. Apparently, you're confusing being psychic with being well informed.

I am also unaware that he said something what you are insinuating. But you should be aware that lies - even if very powerful - do not have a long life. Similarly as sanctions.

[morrobay]

27 minutes ago, Saanim said:

I took it that you write it with tongue-in-cheek. 

Or did you mean Viktor Bout could contribute something of his skill? What would be his portion in the $120B already spent?

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/us/a-closer-look-at-cheney-and-halliburton.html

Edited February 12, 2023 by morrobay

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, Saanim said:

I am also unaware that he said something what you are insinuating. But you should be aware that lies - even if very powerful - do not have a long life. Similarly as sanctions.

Actually, I've brought this up before in response to your objections. Here is a link to a speech Putin recently made. He compares Peter the Great's campaigns of returning and restoring territory that was once part of Russia to his current  campaign of returning and restoring territory taht was once part of Russia. He even specifically mentions Narva, which is part of present day Estonia. Here's a link:

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606

And here's a map which shows Russia's expansion under Peter the Great

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwk3NljXEo

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by placeholder

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, morrobay said:

Because they are hung up on the so called domino effect. Just give Putin 20% of East Ukraine that is Russian anyway and that will put an end to this. 

No it won't!

Also of course Ukraine lands occupied by Russia are not Russia.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Jingthing

[placeholder]

 

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

You surely have a plausible link to his speech in full. But please, spare us of the links where his speech was reinterpreted.  

Just to make sure you've seen it, here's the link to the speech again:

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606

[Saanim]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Just to make sure you've seen it, here's the link to the speech again:

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68606

cannot be reached.

[steven100]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

cannot be reached.

kill every Russian in Ukraine ....  war solved !