British woman, 20, left for dead in hit and run motorbike crash faces being thrown out of Thai hospital despite horrifying injuries after being hit with £40,000 medical bill

[superal]

17 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Yes you would expect so but one thing people don't realise is that all insurance policies have payout limits. However, whilst in the West the limits for medical treatment are so high they'll cover any eventuality, in Thailand they can be very low.

 

I was hit by a taxi that was insured 3rd class with a 3rd party maximum payout of 100,000. That came nowhere near my treatment costs, never mind the other losses I suffered.  I was amazed that a taxi was allowed to have such poor insurance.

My lady was hit by a motor bike taxi , in her car . Taxi had no insurance . People shpuld think twice about using taxis in Thailand as it seems there is no requirement to hold insurance that would cover innocent passengers 

[Rimmer]

A post in caps has been removed

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, superal said:

My lady was hit by a motor bike taxi , in her car . Taxi had no insurance . People shpuld think twice about using taxis in Thailand as it seems there is no requirement to hold insurance that would cover innocent passengers 

That's why we should have insurance ourselves, and as we know by living here, Thailand is in many ways a third world country, which is in many ways discrimination to say in these days, but it is the truth, and we know it!

 

Grab offer insurance included as well also offer an extended insurance for a small fee for each ride.

 

Automatically enrolled

All Grab passengers receive up to US$20,000 Personal Accident coverage by default.

 

You can also upsize your coverage by adding on Ride Cover for pick-up delay guarantee and additional Personal Accident benefits of up to S$100,000

 

https://www.grab.com/sg/transport/personal-accident/#:~:text=All Grab passengers receive up,of up to S%24100%2C000.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Hummin

[SiSePuede419]

Rule #1 NEVER NEVER NEVER DRIVE A MOTORBIKE ON THE ROADS OF THAILAND

 

Rule #2 Don't buy policy from <deleted> Insurance company.

 

Which you wouldn't even need if you obey Rule #1. ????

 

Life is a risk "casino", you take your chances and "win" or "lose".

 

If you can't afford to lose, don't take the risk. 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by SiSePuede419

[SiSePuede419]

43 minutes ago, Hummin said:

All Grab passengers receive up to US$20,000 Personal Accident coverage by default

Nope.  You didn't understand what was in the link you posted.

 

That's only for "death" or "permanent disability".

 

Grab offers "up to" US$2,000 reimbursement for Accidental Medical Expenses.

 

That's anywhere between B0 and B68,740.00 or only £1,660.

 

Hope they don't take you to private hospital when you're unconcious ????

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by SiSePuede419

[Ralf001]

8 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Rule #1 NEVER NEVER NEVER DRIVE A MOTORBIKE ON THE ROADS OF THAILAND

 

 

 

Utter nonsense.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Rule #1 NEVER NEVER NEVER DRIVE A MOTORBIKE ON THE ROADS OF THAILAND

 

Rule #2 Don't buy policy from <deleted> Insurance company.

 

Which you wouldn't even need if you obey Rule #1. ????

 

Life is a risk "casino", you take your chances and "win" or "lose".

 

If you can't afford to lose, don't take the risk. 

 

Dont do anything in life, unless you understand the risk versus the gain, and always prepare for the worst.

[proton]

5 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Utter nonsense.

It sounds like common sense when a bike rider is killed on average every 30 minutes year round!

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Nope.  You didn't understand what was in the link you posted.

 

That's only for "death" or "permanent disability".

 

Grab offers "up to" US$2,000 reimbursement for Accidental Medical Expenses.

 

That's anywhere between B0 and B68,740.00 or only £1,660.

 

Hope they don't take you to private hospital when you're unconcious ????

 

 

I have to look through it more closely, but I never worried, since I always have valid insurance.

[Hummin]

Just now, proton said:

It sounds like common sense when a bike rider is killed on average every 30 minutes year round!

Then you have to look more closely in to the reasons why most get killed. Most of the accidents could have been avoided with a proper motorbike school training, and licensing.  

 

 

[Ralf001]

3 minutes ago, proton said:

It sounds like common sense when a bike rider is killed on average every 30 minutes year round!

I thought it would be more than 17250 a year.

 

Do you have any stats on how many millions ride a bike/scooter daily ?

 

lets say that 17250 come from a pool of 5 million (71 million peeps in Thailand.. my 5 million number is very conservative) annual bike/scoot riders.

 

Thats like 0.0035 %...............in the grand scheme of things, F-All.

[bradiston]

27 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Nope.  You didn't understand what was in the link you posted.

 

That's only for "death" or "permanent disability".

 

Grab offers "up to" US$2,000 reimbursement for Accidental Medical Expenses.

 

That's anywhere between B0 and B68,740.00 or only £1,660.

 

Hope they don't take you to private hospital when you're unconcious ????

 

 

For a long time I opted for PAI - Personal Accident Insurance - over medical insurance as it's a fraction of the price. Until a friend pointed out, as you do, that the medical expenses cover, usually up to 100k, would probably only last a day or two in ICU with operations. Even the most expensive policies only went as high as 300k medical expenses cover. The rest was death and dismemberment cover.

[bradiston]

6 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

I thought it would be more than 17250 a year.

 

Do you have any stats on how many millions ride a bike/scooter daily ?

 

lets say that 17250 come from a pool of 5 million (71 million peeps in Thailand.. my 5 million number is very conservative) annual bike/scoot riders.

 

Thats like 0.0035 %...............in the grand scheme of things, F-All.

Your figures look convincing, but when you get on your bike and you're approaching a left/right onto Sukhumvit from Nua, Klang, Tai or Thepprasit, your chances of survival decrease rapidly. Across the board, sure, your figures hold up. But short runs around Pattaya, or Bangkok... Well, I think the odds seriously shorten! You've no protection on a bike, your mirrors stick out, and you're liable to be rammed from behind. Double jeopardy!

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Your figures look convincing, but when you get on your bike and you're approaching a left/right onto Sukhumvit from Nua, Klang, Tai or Thepprasit, your chances of survival decrease rapidly. Across the board, sure, your figures hold up. But short runs around Pattaya, or Bangkok... Well, I think the odds seriously shorten! You've no protection on a bike, your mirrors stick out, and you're liable to be rammed from behind. Double jeopardy!

Be interesting to see the bike deaths per city stats for the whole of Thailand.

 

Doubt Bangkok or Pattaya make the top 5.

 

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, superal said:

I guess that not all hospitals are hitting foreigners but my local ones do . Also some private doctors , in their walk in surgeries , will have a foreigners rate . Last year I had a lengthy eye test

in the local gov; hospital . I was sat next to a Thai lady all the way through the tests that we both had . Went for our prescriptions ( we had same eye drops ) . My bill 2200bt , hers 300 bt. 

BTW , you were asked for 10,000 baht up front . This goes to prove my point at hitting the foreigner with as much as possible if they can , not only hospitals but many commercial outlets

The Thai lady may have been (probably was) enrolled by one of a variety of social security, workplace related or private healthcare schemes. Her B300 was very likely the co-payment for which she was liable. Your bill reflected the true cost.

 

As far as the B10,000 I was asked for upfront to treat my daughter, that demand was made by a civil servant rather than the hospital, and the hospital put a stop to it right away.

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, superal said:

First , thanks for the link which would be really benefcial to all travellers to Thailand if they could be made aware of , or given the link at the time of booking a flight or holiday to Thailand . You have missed the point that I made concerning the humanity issues , i.e. a badly injured person taken to a hospital which then refuses to administer possible life saving or life changing  medical aid , unless there is proof of adequate funds . Secondly the £40,000 bill is way over the top to treat a broken arm and lacerations . 

Its all about making money out of  foreigners . Even government hospital have a 3 tier billing scheme that is 1/ Thai patients 2/ non-Thai Asean patients 3/ non Asean foreigners . In my experience and also that of friends , if you are an in-patient you will probably be presented with a daily itemised bill which will even show the costs of minimal treatment e.g. nurse taking your temperature / blood pressure , all to drive up your bill .    

In summary it should be treatment first ( for accident & emergency treatment ) ,  reasonable costs for treatment to be agreed and maybe the patients passport held until payment in full has been made . 

Maybe mandatory holiday insurance could help , with drawing attention to activities which are not covered such as riding motor bikes etc . 

I get what you're saying, but this is an argument about medical ethics v business ethics. I don't know what the governing laws are in Thailand, if hospitals or doctors are obliged, simply by virtue of their profession, to administer medical care on request or as deemed fit. How are they to recover costs, which you have to agree, is a major consideration if they are to stay "in business"? For minor procedures, administration of pain killers for instance, this would seem trivial. I'm not sure we're in possession of all the facts in this case. If the family wants to bring a case against the hospital, that's up to them.

 

Somebody posted a link to the UK NHS's policy on unpaid medical bills and the connect from that to the Home Office, and reentry into the UK. I added the link in one of my posts. You won't be allowed back in until the debt is cleared, except in very rare circumstances, and even then, as all things immigration, it's discretionary.

 

Ok, doctors in some parts of the world sign the Hippocratic oath. But I don't know, having read through it, it states that care must be given at all times, no argument. It's interesting to compare legal representation, which is always available, usually free of charge, in an emergency. Perhaps this 300 THB scheme could provide for the most basic medical treatment on the same basis. At least patched up, pain relieved, and transferred to an affordable hospital.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

[bradiston]

45 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Be interesting to see the bike deaths per city stats for the whole of Thailand.

 

Doubt Bangkok or Pattaya make the top 5.

 

Best I could come up with. There's a map of Thailand showing rates, but very broadly drawn. But the data is hugely contradictory. In one article, which just divided Thailand up into its regions of N, S, E, NE, C the E came out 2nd best. Bangkok always shows worst I think.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-24811-4#Tab3

[DavCurtis]

???? ???? 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:33 AM, hotchilli said:

On 2/17/2023 at 4:26 AM, geisha said:

That’s the second girl in two weeks! Both on motorbikes and refused insurance. 

Maybe it's a caveat in the small print?

There you go again with that "small print" myth.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:55 AM, AussieinThaiJim said:

Redoculous £40,000 for a few broken bones !

"Reduculous" indeed.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:11 AM, wombat said:

You would need to read the fine print on the policy....

You must mean the normal-sized print that is referred to as "policy conditions" or "cover".

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

You've no protection on a bike, your mirrors stick out, and you're liable to be rammed from behind. Double jeopardy!

And you are especially liable to be rammed from behind on a motorbike if your motorbike HAS no mirrors.

[bradiston]

9 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And you are especially liable to be rammed from behind on a motorbike if your motorbike HAS no mirrors.

Or you don't use them!

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:41 AM, BritManToo said:

Trouble being the insurance companies pretend you are insured, until it comes time to pay out.

If they all had a warning 'We will not pay for m/c accidents' in big letters on the front of all brochures/adverts/policies it would be a lot more honest, and less of the fraudulent product it currently is.

They do not put it on the front of their policies but they do state it very clearly and honestly in the normal policy conditions, there is nothing fraudulent about listing policy exemptions with the details of cover. 

That some people choose not to read what cover they have or deliberately decide to ignore it and take a chance is the problem of those people, not the insurers who are bound by industry guidelines as to how their policies and their conditions are laid out.

[pedro01]

2 hours ago, proton said:

It sounds like common sense when a bike rider is killed on average every 30 minutes year round!

He should stop then

 

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Or you don't use them!

Or use them only for cosmetic purposes.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:41 AM, Xonax said:

In another article in a UK paper it was written, that the insurance had an exclusion written in fine print.

"...an exclusion written in fine print".

That was a lie, UK insurers' policy conditions cannot be shown in "fine print" by law.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:45 AM, Xonax said:

In Thailand ambulances does not handle dead bodies!!

Yes, they do, deceased persons have to be certified as such by a doctor, and they're found at hospitals.   You really think that when ambulances turn up at fatals they leave the bodies in the road?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:47 AM, Tubulat said:

I mean, they always find a way to avoid paying out.

Yet another poster who knows nothing at all about the successful claims' records of UK insurers.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:53 AM, Yme said:

Especially seeing she will need to have the work reviewed as soon as possible by a competent surgeon to make sure it has been done correctly. 

 

Why?  What do you know about the surgeon or the hospital that attended her?   Nothing, is my guess.