Florida bill would give DeSantis more power over state universities and ban gender studies

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sounds good to me.

 

That's democracy in action. If people don't like it they can get a more amenable government elected next time.

If its democracy in action then listen to the actual students:

 

Florida students walk out to protest DeSantis race education policies

Hundreds of students across Florida walked out Thursday in protest against Gov. Ron DeSantis and his policies concerning higher education.

Students walked out of their classrooms at the University of South Florida, University of Florida, Florida State University, and more in opposition of his efforts. Some high school students also joined in on the statewide walkout.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-students-walkout-protest-desantis-race-education-policies/story?id=97417150

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL, LOL. Germany didn't have a constitution and a SCOTUS to prevent Hitler doing that. It's a false equivalence.

Weimar Germany did indeed have a supreme court (Reichsgericht) and a constitution (Verfassung des Deutschen Reichs) which came into effect in 1919. The latter was essentially gutted in 1933 under the Enabling Act ( Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich), basically a much more thorough way of subverting civil rights and justice than packing the court system with reactionaries the way the Former Guy did. But also in Germany in the 1930s, just like under the Former Guy, competence and qualifications were unimportant, but absolute loyalty was. Same strategy.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The purpose of universities is not simply to provide skills required by the Corporate World, which didn’t even exist for centuries after Universities were first founded.

 

Do you need a uni to teach you life might not be fair, or consenting adults, may disagree on what makes them happy.

 

If you don't realize that before getting out of HS / puberty, then uni isn't going to help.   I thought people went to uni to learn skills and get educated about things they didn't learn before going to.

[NotReallyHere]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

And even smaller minds and senses of shame.

Two quotes from the article:

 

"The bill makes good on DeSantis' pledge to ban colleges and universities from any expenditures on diversity, equity and inclusion, or DEI, programs."

AND

"The bill would put all hiring decisions in the hands of each universities’ board of trustees, a body selected entirely by the governor and his appointees, with input from the school’s president."

 

Using DEI in the hiring process is discriminatory and prejudicial because it awards a job (especially relevant for government jobs) to someone who is not necessarily the most meritorious based on qualifications required to perform the job.  This preferential treatment is "small minded and shameful".

 

This is so very clear, arguing against it might lead one to believe the people doing so have something to gain.  Could it be that people who consider it "small minded and shameful" would receive preferential treatment under DEI?  Self-serving behavior at the very least.

 

This trend toward using DEI over merit in hiring decisions goes far beyond Florida.  It's a national trend, even at the federal level.  Let me mention a relevant example of DEI hiring decisions on the federal level.   During the 2020 election, Biden promised to nominate a black woman as the next Supreme Court justice.  How did Biden know that the most qualified and meritorious individual would be a black woman?  Why did he automatically eliminate all other potential meritorious nominees for what is one of this nation's most important public positions?  They say that "justice is blind"  The nomination process was clearly biased and not gender or color blind.  The nominee did not speak out against the bias in the nomination process, so it is safe to assume she agrees with it.  How can we assume she will rule as if "justice is blind".  We can't. 

 

With his current actions against DEI in Florida, DeSantis is demonstrating he would not cave in to the self serving DEI voters if he were elected to federal office.  If he is so racist, why doesn't he come out and say, like Biden did, that he would nominate a particular gender and race (radical left readers would assume, in DeSantis' case, white and male) for the next open supreme court position before even seeing their qualifications?

 

Comparing DeSantis to Putin and Hitler is absolutely ridiculous.  Clearly an emotional, not rational, assessment, designed to put fear into weak minded individuals.  Unfortunately, an effective tactic.

 

If you're having difficulty understanding this post, please take a moment to read it again rather than reporting it as "off topic".  Reporting something as "off topic" that isn't, is weak.

 

 

 

[Isaan sailor]

9 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

He isn't a conservative. He's a populist demagogue.

 

The parallels with 1930s Germany are chilling. Remember, the little Austrian guy with the funny mustache also came into office via elections. Later he subverted the entire system, sort of like what the Former Guy tried to do.

 

I too, see the parallels with 1930’s Germany.  When Antifa and progressive mobs tear down statues (President Abraham Lincoln’s statue comes to mind), to try and erase history.  

[Bkk Brian]

45 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Do you need a uni to teach you life might not be fair, or consenting adults, may disagree on what makes them happy.

 

If you don't realize that before getting out of HS / puberty, then uni isn't going to help.   I thought people went to uni to learn skills and get educated about things they didn't learn before going to.

Perhaps the students want an opportunity to discuss issues like diversity and equity rather than be censored from doing so. Censoring discussions is not the way to produce a well informed educational experience.

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Do you need a uni to teach you life might not be fair, or consenting adults, may disagree on what makes them happy.

 

If you don't realize that before getting out of HS / puberty, then uni isn't going to help.   I thought people went to uni to learn skills and get educated about things they didn't learn before going to.

University, you should try it some time. 

[Chomper Higgot]

38 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Two quotes from the article:

 

"The bill makes good on DeSantis' pledge to ban colleges and universities from any expenditures on diversity, equity and inclusion, or DEI, programs."

AND

"The bill would put all hiring decisions in the hands of each universities’ board of trustees, a body selected entirely by the governor and his appointees, with input from the school’s president."

 

Using DEI in the hiring process is discriminatory and prejudicial because it awards a job (especially relevant for government jobs) to someone who is not necessarily the most meritorious based on qualifications required to perform the job.  This preferential treatment is "small minded and shameful".

 

This is so very clear, arguing against it might lead one to believe the people doing so have something to gain.  Could it be that people who consider it "small minded and shameful" would receive preferential treatment under DEI?  Self-serving behavior at the very least.

 

This trend toward using DEI over merit in hiring decisions goes far beyond Florida.  It's a national trend, even at the federal level.  Let me mention a relevant example of DEI hiring decisions on the federal level.   During the 2020 election, Biden promised to nominate a black woman as the next Supreme Court justice.  How did Biden know that the most qualified and meritorious individual would be a black woman?  Why did he automatically eliminate all other potential meritorious nominees for what is one of this nation's most important public positions?  They say that "justice is blind"  The nomination process was clearly biased and not gender or color blind.  The nominee did not speak out against the bias in the nomination process, so it is safe to assume she agrees with it.  How can we assume she will rule as if "justice is blind".  We can't. 

 

With his current actions against DEI in Florida, DeSantis is demonstrating he would not cave in to the self serving DEI voters if he were elected to federal office.  If he is so racist, why doesn't he come out and say, like Biden did, that he would nominate a particular gender and race (radical left readers would assume, in DeSantis' case, white and male) for the next open supreme court position before even seeing their qualifications?

 

Comparing DeSantis to Putin and Hitler is absolutely ridiculous.  Clearly an emotional, not rational, assessment, designed to put fear into weak minded individuals.  Unfortunately, an effective tactic.

 

If you're having difficulty understanding this post, please take a moment to read it again rather than reporting it as "off topic".  Reporting something as "off topic" that isn't, is weak.

 

 

 

The fallacy of your argument is the idea that there is a ‘best qualified’ candidate.

 

There almost never is, each candidate offering a range of skills, qualifications and life experience to the job.

 

[ozimoron]

The GOP in pursuit of ignorance.

[NotReallyHere]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The fallacy of your argument is the idea that there is a ‘best qualified’ candidate.

 

There almost never is, each candidate offering a range of skills, qualifications and life experience to the job.

 

Nonsense.

 

"Best qualified" is never based on sex, race, sexual preference, religion, etc.  Consequently, they shouldn't be used as selection criteria.

 

"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" criteria are not valid criteria for job selection of government jobs at the state or federal level.   I think the private sector should be able do what they want (as long as they do not accept federal or state funding).   They will live or die by their good/poor decisions in the free market.  I don't agree with everything DeSantis is doing, but he got this one right.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Nonsense.

 

"Best qualified" is never based on sex, race, sexual preference, religion, etc.  Consequently, they shouldn't be used as selection criteria.

I agree, selecting white makes as standard practice is clearly wrong.

[NotReallyHere]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I agree, selecting white makes as standard practice is clearly wrong.

Correct.  Nothing I have said contradicts that.

[Bkk Brian]

32 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Nonsense.

 

"Best qualified" is never based on sex, race, sexual preference, religion, etc.  Consequently, they shouldn't be used as selection criteria.

 

"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" criteria are not valid criteria for job selection of government jobs at the state or federal level.   I think the private sector should be able do what they want (as long as they do not accept federal or state funding).   They will live or die by their good/poor decisions in the free market.  I don't agree with everything DeSantis is doing, but he got this one right.

"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" criteria are not valid criteria for job selection of government jobs at the state or federal level.  

 

Disagree, its not just the private sector that benefit from diversity and inclusion experience based on job selection but also gov. It all depends on the role your taking up.

 

"By fostering a culture of diversity — or a capacity to appreciate and value individual differences — employers benefit from varied perspectives on how to confront business challenges and achieve success. The term refers to the infinite range of individuals' unique attributes and experiences such as ethnicity, gender, age, and disability. Since disability is a natural part of diversity, businesses can benefit by taking steps to ensure people with disabilities are represented in their workforce."

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/diversity-inclusion

[NotReallyHere]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Disagree, its not just the private sector that benefit from diversity and inclusion experience based on job selection but also gov. It all depends on the role your taking up.

 

"By fostering a culture of diversity — or a capacity to appreciate and value individual differences — employers benefit from varied perspectives on how to confront business challenges and achieve success. The term refers to the infinite range of individuals' unique attributes and experiences such as ethnicity, gender, age, and disability. Since disability is a natural part of diversity, businesses can benefit by taking steps to ensure people with disabilities are represented in their workforce."

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/diversity-inclusion

This is the DEI nonsense DeSantis is fighting against.  Quoting a government website doesn't make a point other than the DEI nonsense has risen to the top, which was already very apparent.

 

If you need your car fixed, do you really care what the race, gender, sexual preference, etc of the mechanic is or do you want the most qualified mechanic?  Is a diverse pool of mechanics going to make the work of the garage better?  More nonsense.  The government does own fleets of cars.  They will have to consider BS like you've listed above when hiring mechanics.  The result will be diversity, but at the expense of the quality of the mechanics because job qualifications weren't the primary deciding factor.  Our tax dollars wasted because the government cars serviced by our diverse mechanic pool is less than optimal.  I couldn't care less if the mechanic pool was all black, all female, all catholic.  It doesn't matter.  What matters is the work performed.  This is just one example.  Meritocracy over diversity.

 

This is my last post on ASEAN NOW.  This <deleted> never ends.  I'm not wasting anymore time here.  I won't be back unless I have a visa question.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, NotReallyHere said:

This is the DEI nonsense DeSantis is fighting against.  Quoting a government website doesn't make a point other than the DEI nonsense has risen to the top, which was already very apparent.

 

If you need your car fixed, do you really care what the race, gender, sexual preference, etc of the mechanic is or do you want the most qualified mechanic?  Is a diverse pool of mechanics going to make the work of the garage better?  More nonsense.  The government does own fleets of cars.  They will have to consider BS like you've listed above when hiring mechanics.  The result will be diversity, but at the expense of the quality of the mechanics because job qualifications weren't the primary deciding factor.  Our tax dollars wasted because the government cars serviced by our diverse mechanic pool is less than optimal.  This is just one example.  Meritocracy over diversity.

Did you miss this in my post "It all depends on the role your taking up."

 

If I was recruiting foster carers (which I did in lower management) then having experience and training in Diversity, Equity and Inclusion was essential. When I went onto recruit Managers to head the departments of Foster care and other agencies their experience also needed to reflect that.

 

Had I been in another field that was more to do with repairing cars I doubt I would have needed it.

[bamnutsak]

DeSantis seems like a one-trick pony. It's Culture War all day, every day.

 

And at this rate he'll need to increase the Florida state Defense budget to battle his "war".

 

 

[Isaan sailor]

Diversity and equity only go so far.  I won’t fly United Airlines in the future, with their coming requirement of over 50% minority and female pilots.  I’d rather fly with the very best, most qualified pilots—regardless of their skin color, ethnic origin, sex, sexual proclivities and pronouns.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, NotReallyHere said:

Nonsense.

 

"Best qualified" is never based on sex, race, sexual preference, religion, etc.  Consequently, they shouldn't be used as selection criteria.

 

"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" criteria are not valid criteria for job selection of government jobs at the state or federal level.   I think the private sector should be able do what they want (as long as they do not accept federal or state funding).   They will live or die by their good/poor decisions in the free market.  I don't agree with everything DeSantis is doing, but he got this one right.

Yes they are, governments are the main employers of sociologists.

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

Diversity and equity only go so far.  I won’t fly United Airlines in the future, with their coming requirement of over 50% minority and female pilots.  I’d rather fly with the very best, most qualified pilots—regardless of their skin color, ethnic origin, sex, sexual proclivities and pronouns.

Ah, that old canard again. Those rules are designed to ensure that the best qualified are included in the selection process and that minorities are not excluded which has been the historical experience.

[Hanaguma]

35 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" criteria are not valid criteria for job selection of government jobs at the state or federal level.  

 

Disagree, its not just the private sector that benefit from diversity and inclusion experience based on job selection but also gov. It all depends on the role your taking up.

 

"By fostering a culture of diversity — or a capacity to appreciate and value individual differences — employers benefit from varied perspectives on how to confront business challenges and achieve success. The term refers to the infinite range of individuals' unique attributes and experiences such as ethnicity, gender, age, and disability. Since disability is a natural part of diversity, businesses can benefit by taking steps to ensure people with disabilities are represented in their workforce."

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/diversity-inclusion

This is the usual word salad that is used to "explain" why these faux diversity measures are necessary. In actuality, most just seem to be a jobs creating program for various "consultants" and "experts" to sneak their snouts into the collective trough. 

 

Innate characteristics like race and gender have nothing to do with actual diversity. They do the exact opposite of what is claimed in the government quote, to "value individual differences". They in fact ERASE individual differences and instead seek to pigeonhole people into easily digestible categories.  

 

Plus, if it actually WAS a benefit to companies, they would do it without being hectored by some factotum who works for the government.  

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This is the usual word salad that is used to "explain" why these faux diversity measures are necessary. In actuality, most just seem to be a jobs creating program for various "consultants" and "experts" to sneak their snouts into the collective trough. 

 

Innate characteristics like race and gender have nothing to do with actual diversity. They do the exact opposite of what is claimed in the government quote, to "value individual differences". They in fact ERASE individual differences and instead seek to pigeonhole people into easily digestible categories.  

 

Plus, if it actually WAS a benefit to companies, they would do it without being hectored by some factotum who works for the government.  

Rubbish, racism is alive and well in among job selectors in government and the private sector. Diversity rules are designed to remove that prejudice.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

This is the usual word salad that is used to "explain" why these faux diversity measures are necessary. In actuality, most just seem to be a jobs creating program for various "consultants" and "experts" to sneak their snouts into the collective trough. 

 

Innate characteristics like race and gender have nothing to do with actual diversity. They do the exact opposite of what is claimed in the government quote, to "value individual differences". They in fact ERASE individual differences and instead seek to pigeonhole people into easily digestible categories.  

 

Plus, if it actually WAS a benefit to companies, they would do it without being hectored by some factotum who works for the government.  

This is the usual word salad that is used to "explain" why these faux diversity measures are necessary.

 

From someone who has what experience in this field?

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Rubbish, racism is alive and well in among job selectors in government and the private sector. Diversity rules are designed to remove that prejudice.

Prove it.

[Hanaguma]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Rubbish, racism is alive and well in among job selectors in government and the private sector. Diversity rules are designed to remove that prejudice.

According to these reports, blacks are OVER represented in the public sector.

 

https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/pdf/2011/blacks_public_sector11.pdf

 

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-us-news-ap-top-news-mi-state-wire-detroit-55792de5cc4946b1844c028469389c9f

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Prove it.

The statistics of the imbalance of employment in proportion to populations is proof. The widespread existence of diversity programs demonstrates acceptance of the problem and is more proof.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

According to these reports, blacks are OVER represented in the public sector.

 

https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/pdf/2011/blacks_public_sector11.pdf

 

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-us-news-ap-top-news-mi-state-wire-detroit-55792de5cc4946b1844c028469389c9f

The first link does not demonstrate a preponderance of blacks employed vs whites in the public sector as a proportion of their respective population numbers. You didn't read that link closely at all.

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The first link does not demonstrate a preponderance of blacks employed vs whites in the public sector as a proportion of their respective population numbers. You didn't read that link closely at all.

Actually, it does. Blacks are 13-14% of the population, yet they have 18% of jobs at the federal level. The first link is a few years old, but it said that 21% of black workers were public workers, as opposed to 16% of non black.  

 

Evidence of racism? I think not.

[John Drake]

University boards of trustees have always been able to exercise considerable power. It is within their decision making duties to decide whether to eliminate entire programs and/or majors and whether to close them or consolidate them into nearby universities' programs. The DEI legislation is the only thing that sounds new to me about this. 

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2021/06/04/universities-fire-tenured-faculty-without-due-process-are-setting-dangerous

[KhunLA]

Curious after the first class, 5 minutes of, and the professor pointed out the obvious...

... that's a penis

... that's a vagina

 

What would the rest of the classes and semester talk about.  Maybe 9 months of deciphering and debating the alphabet.

[candide]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

University boards of trustees have always been able to exercise considerable power. It is within their decision making duties to decide whether to eliminate entire programs and/or majors and whether to close them or consolidate them into nearby universities' programs. The DEI legislation is the only thing that sounds new to me about this. 

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2021/06/04/universities-fire-tenured-faculty-without-due-process-are-setting-dangerous

Well, if it is specified that the bill would put all hiring decisions in the hands of each universities’ board of trustees, I guess that it was not (fully) the case before.