BOI Seeks Private Businesses to Promote LTR Visa Program

[4MyEgo]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Failed is a big word.

Their intended target I believe was 500,000 applicants in 5 years, however they only received 2,800 applicants in 5 months, YES, that is a failure, now that word is bigger than failed as you mentioned, but same same ????

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

They got 2800 people in 12 months and that's not a failure?

Correction, 5 months and YES a HUGE failure.

[wwest5829]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I bring over to Thailand via wise about 60,000 baht a month - or 720,000 a year. You would think that they would come up with some form of valid 10 years visa for family men that are using over seven million in 10 years in Thailand.

 

They are aiming too high and at the wrong people.

I wish them well attracting in the rich and famous but I am priced out of the U.S. market for a working middle class retirement and so … Thailand was attractive as a lower cost country. Like you, I have been here over a decade bringing in the required 65K baht + a month which is permanently sustainable for me (baring disaster). I would love to see a long term  Visa for those of us retired to LOS having demonstrated not being a cause of trouble and sustaining Thai families. Add up the 10 year extension fee, add on a year or two extra charge for including a Senior Nat’l Park Pass, and additional option of joining the national healthcare program at a Thai reasonable cost and you can match other countries to attract responsible long term sustainers for Thailand. (Yea, yea … well we can dream!).

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

They got 2800 people in 12 months and that's not a failure? They say it needs a rethink even.

 

Just did a quick Google and they say the average pension in the UK is  £15,080. Quick calculations say at 80k USD you're making 4x the average of the UK. So fair enough this targets wealthy people but guess what, only 2800 showed up.

 

That's my point, wealthy people don't want to live in Thailand and the facts prove it.

How do you know that wealthy people don't live in Thailand already? Your a little off the mark yourself.  

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

Correction, 5 months and YES a HUGE failure.

Ah so they could maybe get 6000 in a year? I bet this is like software sales where the people willing to purchase already did so and any more takers will trickle in (think inverse exponential chat). If they get 20,000 in 5 years I'd be surprised. 

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Correction, 5 months and YES a HUGE failure.

Not a failure at all, still needs a retouch to fine tune items.

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

Perhaps Thailand should look at  how Toyota makes more money than Mercedes Benz 

I agree … while reflecting on not wishing to attract the Walmart low end of mass marketing?

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I wish them well attracting in the rich and famous but I am priced out of the U.S. market for a working middle class retirement and so … Thailand was attractive as a lower cost country. Like you, I have been here over a decade bringing in the required 65K baht + a month which is permanently sustainable for me (baring disaster). I would love to see a long term  Visa for those of us retired to LOS having demonstrated not being a cause of trouble and sustaining Thai families. Add up the 10 year extension fee, add on a year or two extra charge for including a Senior Nat’l Park Pass, and additional option of joining the national healthcare program at a Thai reasonable cost and you can match other countries to attract responsible long term sustainers for Thailand. (Yea, yea … well we can dream!).

This as you put it would be a win win for all expats and families.

 

I was tired of the hoop jumping with the annual extension of stay for all the years I have been here so since I qualified for this Visa I jumped at it. Is it a niche visa, yes I think so, but not a failure by any means. It's only been in play Since September 1st of 2022.

[NorthernRyland]

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

How do you know that wealthy people don't live in Thailand already? Your a little off the mark yourself.  

yes we all know there are incredibly wealthy people in Thailand but we're talking about raw numbers and 2800 is peanuts. Maybe you're thinking it's incredible that even 2800 would bother which such an offer and so you consider it a success? I don't know what else your metric may be.

[itsari]

1 minute ago, wwest5829 said:

I agree … while reflecting on not wishing to attract the Walmart low end of mass marketing?

I understand your sentiment but your remark on  Walmart is not relevant in my opinion. 

Many decent law abiding citizens shop at Walmart I am sure .

Only wanting Harrods customers has its own problems 

[wwest5829]

56 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nope, for my LTRWP visa i just had to show I had an annual pension of 80k USD or more, as well as a Health Insurance policy which met the requirements.  After they reviewed my documents I was approved and had the LTR-P, or wealthy pensioner Visa.  I was verified and approved and only then did I pay my 50K Thb for the visa when I was stamped into my passport.

So, good for you. I am retired on USA $1526.00 a month Social Security, matched with retirement investments for my sustainable total of $2400.00 USD a month. Sadly, in the financial sense, I chose to be an educator. Yes, there were non-financial rewards and serving justice, a happy retirement in Thailand.

[mudcat]

I considered my LTRWP visa as part of my estate planning and Thailand  annoyance reduction program.  There was only a minor up front cost to obtain a visa as I leveraged my current pensions and assets to free up my 800K hostage account and choose my medical insurance based on my needs.  My life got easier and my wife's headaches were less when I die or become disabled.

 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

So, good for you. I am retired on USA $1526.00 a month Social Security, matched with retirement investments for my sustainable total of $2400.00 USD a month. Sadly, in the financial sense, I chose to be an educator. Yes, there were non-financial rewards and serving justice, a happy retirement in Thailand.

Educator, teaching in the US? I know many teachers who currently make $6k to $7k a month teaching, well that's California and they also have a STRS pension with a Savings Plus IRA making 80k USD a year in retirement. I know some teachers don't make squat but my ex- wife, after 35 years retired as a PE teacher, she is collecting $6k usd a month in a retirement pension, plus she has her IRA account to draw from. If needed.

Edited February 28, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[wwest5829]

12 minutes ago, itsari said:

I understand your sentiment but your remark on  Walmart is not relevant in my opinion. 

Many decent law abiding citizens shop at Walmart I am sure .

Only wanting Harrods customers has its own problems 

I was aiming at the middle, neither high end nor the bottom market (perhaps Dollar Store could have been used). Yes, many decent law abiding citizens but with the sheer numbers …. well there you are

[jeanrem]

Quote

 

They should ask for 40k per people with a mandatory health insurance. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by jeanrem

[Mad mick]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So at 5k Thb a year for the 10 years, total of 50k Thb which includes a multiple re-entry permit, which is less than one would spend for an annual extension of stay with a re-entry permit for the same time frame, plus no driving to immigration every year and wasting your money by having it sitting idly in the bank, tell me how that's a waste of money for a pensioner that travels.  Plus instead of 90 days it's a once a year report, so again it's a win win for me.  I was spending 5700 baht a year on my OA extension of stay, so I am saving 7k Thb and moved my 800k money from my Thai bank back into an account in the US making 4% interest.

Lived Thailand long time back before all this buearacy red tape b_ in Vn at moment give it go for 6 months monthly visa runs have killed the experience stuck in HCMC coz easy do border runs moc bai , was in Philippines 7 months ! Going back May stay upto 3 years on tourist visas without leaving renew internally local immigration office they are everywhere so not difficult coz 7000+ Islands ! That's where l'll stay put 1 month free , next pay extension = $30 US per month , do 2 months after 2 months   move onto 6 monthly or 12 up to you  include ???? Alien ID card that's what Philippines call foreigners Aliens has ypur pic + micro chip + passport number your local address in Phili , no need carry passport its all on ID card " That's my pick of places to retire no need prove or put up any money in banks etc,. Australian Age pension rate to low meet Thai based US Social security = $ 1500 US mim  peRr month well above Aussie pension no intention putting my money  in Thai bank ! go where it hassle free same cost of living as Thai or Vn with exception foods no where as good as Thai or Vn Street foods let lone local produce veggies poor quality & infrastructure no where near Thai or Vn , WiFi up and down to be expected 7000 + Islands to cover , Best Advantage speak English easy meet local girls ( non bar workers ) can be bit shy at first but they are friendly + like foreign guys not all are gold diggers no differenceto Thai or Vn for that matter Aussie girls ! For me access to Visas so easy and your welcomed renew inside  Philippines ???????? no issues.. Good lay back retirement place no shortage of beaches etc,. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Mad mick

[happydreamer]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Said it was a waste of $'s from the outset, 2,800 applicants.....LOL, that said, do they know 20k baht a year gets you a one year extension with no trips to the IO, and those applying don't need 800k in the bank.....LOL

 

I'm not on the above extension, but Just saying.

 

What visa extension is 20k per year?  

[happydreamer]

I think if they made the LTV accessible in smaller denominations  theyd have more success.   problem with that tho...they swing for home runs every time trying to get that big bag upfront instead of taking in smaller sustainable sums over time. 

 

Also I think in the eyes of the people who wrote this...and I may be giving way more credit than deserved...they see the larger upfront sum as a sign of stability which "may" align more with attracting a financially afluent population...

 

I still don't understand thai logic even after 10 years

[MaiChai]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

Anyone can buy anything they want in the UK, there's no limits and nobody cares.

 

You don't have to step foot in the country to do it either.

 

I read about a case involving an ex politician who bought/sold a property which was owned by a company in the Virgin Islands, the transaction was completed by selling the holding company so no stamp duty payment was required, caused quite the scandal a while back.

 

It's a free for all and always will be. Maybe they want to keep the Russians out but they definitely want their money.

 

Ah yes, I looked it up - it was Tony Blair and a 6.5 million pound office building owned by a Bahraini Minister  through a British Virgin Islands company, lol - they're all at it. Why would they ever stop it?

So much to socialism! Labour party members want to rich just like everyone else!

[4MyEgo]

55 minutes ago, happydreamer said:

What visa extension is 20k per year?  

Those without the required 800k baht in the bank go and see an agent, and for 20k baht they get them the year extension, usually a retirement extension, no 90 days required as the agent also completes those.

 

Just about every expat I know has an agent because they're broke so to speak, albeit they tell me that they don't want to tie up their money for the period required.....LOL

[happydreamer]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

Those without the required 800k baht in the bank go and see an agent, and for 20k baht they get them the year extension, usually a retirement extension, no 90 days required as the agent also completes those.

 

Just about every expat I know has an agent because they're broke so to speak, albeit they tell me that they don't want to tie up their money for the period required.....LOL

I wouldn't advise that practice.  First hand experience with the fallout from agent visas.  Your days with that are numbered and don't even think about leaving and trying to get back in with one of those

[4MyEgo]

10 minutes ago, happydreamer said:

I wouldn't advise that practice.  First hand experience with the fallout from agent visas.  Your days with that are numbered and don't even think about leaving and trying to get back in with one of those

Agree with you 110%, but whilst there is corruption here, IO's will accept what the agents produce.

 

When the sheet hits the fan, we will no doubt see less farangs here, that said, won't happen in my life time.

[mokwit]

30 minutes ago, happydreamer said:

I wouldn't advise that practice.  First hand experience with the fallout from agent visas.  Your days with that are numbered and don't even think about leaving and trying to get back in with one of those

Can you fill in the details?. Volunteer visa? If your visa is done within 'the system' historically that has been unlikely, unheard of even.. If it is done by a low level person freelancing on their own behalf, that is the risk. It will be interesting to see how the Region 4 and 5 visas issued by Immigration, that Big Chok is in the process of going after, pan out for the holders of them.

Edited February 28, 2023 by mokwit

[F Groenen]

I did get a LTR-WFT visa, but a critical parts are still missing, still preventing me to work from Thailand permanently.

No official document explains that work from Thailand with this visa is allowed without a Work Permit.

There is no documentation for safeguarding your employer of Permanent Establishment (PE) rules, which opens up the door for the Thai Tax office to penalize your employer with taxes and fines.

Until the BOI can close these gaps, many people cannot apply for LTR-WFT as their employers cannot allow it.

[spidermike007]

Rething this:

1. Fix the dozen things that needed to be addressed long before covid, which was a grand opportunity to improve the country, and not just sit on your lazy bums. 

 

2. Give rich tourists an incentive to come here and stay. Start with lowering luxury taxes, thereby making yourselves competitive. Then move on to the ridiculously high wine taxes.

 

3. Then offer tax incentives and property ownership. 

 

You goons talk about high end expats and tourists. But you do nothing to attract them. Have you ever heard of the concept of making sacrifices to achieve a goal? Or does your wealth and hubris prevent that? 

[newnative]

       The extremely low numbers of people getting the LTR should be a big tip-off that the program needs to be changed drastically to attract more applicants.  I've looked into the retiree LTR, which I would be interested in if it was made easier and with more flexibility with the requirements.  I must say the people I've emailed with questions have been very patient, polite, and prompt in responding; unfortunately, their hands are tied with the strict requirements and limitations. 

     

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, happydreamer said:

I still don't understand thai logic even after 10 years

It's about face I'm pretty sure. They want to believe Thailand is something it isn't and if they can get all these wealthy people to come live here it proves that for them and they have bragging rights.

 

I just got back from lunch where I stepped in a puddle of black putrid mud on the side of the street and soiled my feet as I wasn't wearing proper shoes. Typical example of the kind of grit and grime you experience here so they need to fix these things before people with big money are willing to come here from their cushy life back home.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Quick calculations say at 80k USD you're making 4x the average of the UK

Hmmm. I'm retired US Air Force. My 20 year pension, plus Social Security, got me to $3000 short of $80k, which was then made up with IRA sales, already dictated by the US law for Required Minimum Distribution. This was last year. This year, due to the 8.7% cost of living raise to my Air Force pension and Social Security -- I wouldn't even need my IRA to meet requirements.

 

And since LTR now allows me to use my Air Force Tricare health care policy to satisfy the LTR health care requirement -- this will save me big time, since I can cancel the Thai Insurance requirement to extend my OA visa. So, off to Bangkok and BoI -- a jog I didn't want to make, since I hate to travel to Bangkok. But, now it's worth it.

 

But, yeah, the target market for the LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa wasn't exactly well thought out. Most wealthy pensioners who want to live in Thailand -- already live here! Hey, it's not hard to get a retirement visa, so those wealthy pensioners who desired Thailand - are already here. And many don't mind spending 10 minutes online every 90 days to do a report. Maybe once per year to Imm for an extension is more onerous, especially if you live in the sticks, but maybe for most, no. Thus, a drip and drab of already here "wealthy" pensioners (I would maintain "not too wealthy" is more definitive) are applying for the LTR. And now, with this Tricare allowance, plus so many Vietnam era retired US military here -- we may see a slight bump up of applications. But, hey, nothing to make this program shine.

 

You could shine up the program by allowing property ownership by foreigners -- and I'm sure that would knock the door down. But, we've already seen how counter productive this was with other countries that allowed foreigners to own property -- and outbid the locals. No thanks. And I hope the decision makers in Thailand understand this, and that it would be better to allow LTR to fail, than to harvest foreign land speculators.

 

Anyway, some of us here will benefit from the Wealthy Pensioner LTR. And others, who don't qualify, will continue to whine.

[NorthernRyland]

41 minutes ago, F Groenen said:

Until the BOI can close these gaps, many people cannot apply for LTR-WFT as their employers cannot allow it.

Now here's an actual practical suggestion.

 

Most importantly before they impose steep salary requirements and minimum company sizes they need to ask which employers are actually going to be willing to let their employees be on such a huge time zone difference. 80k/year is real money so why would these companies allow this? The answer is their not and thus people are not applying for the visa and no amount of advertising is going to change this.

 

If Thailand wants digital workers they need the people are probably self employed and not earning that kind of money and certainly won't be working for a company which grosses 1 million USD per year or whatever amount they stated.

[FritsSikkink]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Said it was a waste of $'s from the outset, 2,800 applicants.....LOL, that said, do they know 20k baht a year gets you a one year extension with no trips to the IO, and those applying don't need 800k in the bank.....LOL

 

I'm not on the above extension, but Just saying.

 

Don't think they want to bribe immigration officers to get a visa but do it legally.