BOI Seeks Private Businesses to Promote LTR Visa Program

[happydreamer]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Can you fill in the details?. Volunteer visa? If your visa is done within 'the system' historically that has been unlikely, unheard of even.. If it is done by a low level person freelancing on their own behalf, that is the risk. It will be interesting to see how the Region 4 and 5 visas issued by Immigration, that Big Chok is in the process of going after, pan out for the holders of them.

Volunteer org visas provided by agents were being cancelled upon arrival in Jan of 2022 with holders threatened of deportation on the spot...no tourist visa given just threat of deportation.  Conversations can be had and isunderstandings can be cleared up.  With enough grease a sticky situation becomes unstuck.  

 

 

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, happydreamer said:

Volunteer org visas provided by agents were being cancelled upon arrival in Jan of 2022 with holders threatened of deportation on the spot...no tourist visa given just threat of deportation.  Conversations can be had and isunderstandings can be cleared up.  With enough grease a sticky situation becomes unstuck.  

 

 

The minute heard the details of them I suspected they were outside 'the system'.

[happydreamer]

I had apprehensions about sticking 400k into a bank for the spouse visa but after seeing what the true cost of agency visas are...you're better off moving your money to a bank here.  More of a chance to keep it than mess about with anyone official, unofficial, artificial, or formerly official

[BritScot]

7 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

LOL.. You think they care about 60k monthly retirees ?? 

No! However, they should. That is a much needed foreign currency. Thailand (not the majority of the people) hate you and want to squeeze every drop of blood they can and the Thai  attitude of tough if you don't like it leave under the belief there are always more queuing up to come and live. At some point a while ago that changed and the realisation any sane person wod have people aren't blindly retiring in Thailand. People now research and also may expats come to a tipping point and decide to leave. We did that in 2019 "the whole family back to the uk" left our house etc and it was the best decision we have ever made. Life is good cold but good.

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, BritScot said:

come to a tipping point and decide to leave.

The constant tightening of visa/extension issuance screams that you should not retire here. They don't care if their latest requirement forces you out.

[digger70]

21 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I wonder what percentage of the pensioners converted from a Non-Imm O or O-A from within the country.  I know I did, as it made sense overall as far as the actual out of pocket costs, which included a ME re-entry permit for the 10 years as well as using the fast track service at the airport.  Only need to report once a year as well, and that also resets if you go and come......hopefully more will apply.  Two friends from the US are contemplating it right now. I applied when they first opened up the program and by Oct 6th I had the 10 year Visa, with the first 5 years stamped into my passport here in BKK at the BOI Immigration.  Many will say its a waste, but if you look at not having to do an annual extension of stay and traveling to the I/O, while also keeping 800K locked in the bank it is a win win, of course you have to be able to qualify.

It's a Lose Lose  situation the way I can see.

Now it cost me THB2000 per Yr. and after 10 Yrs I still have my THB 800000

The 10 Yr visa cost THB 100000 per Yr. 

So compare THB 1000000 to THB20000        I save THB 980000 in 10 Yrs 

For me that's a nice saving. I don't have money to trow away/waste.

[ThailandRyan]

26 minutes ago, digger70 said:

It's a Lose Lose  situation the way I can see.

Now it cost me THB2000 per Yr. and after 10 Yrs I still have my THB 800000

The 10 Yr visa cost THB 100000 per Yr. 

So compare THB 1000000 to THB20000        I save THB 980000 in 10 Yrs 

For me that's a nice saving. I don't have money to trow away/waste.

Say what? The 10 year visa only costs 50k Thb for all 10 years that's 5k Thb a year, how do you get 100,000 a year for the visa? Because that is wrong. Your thinking of the Elite Visa which this is not.

[humbug]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Their intended target I believe was 500,000 applicants in 5 years, however they only received 2,800 applicants in 5 months, YES, that is a failure, now that word is bigger than failed as you mentioned, but same same ????

It might seem their target was Elite, but reality it is more retirement and smart visas from BOI, and agree the number of applicants is nonsense, just blatant spin, even in the 100's of actual new visa holders they will do well, as the visa is 5 years, then you have to go through it all again to get the 2nd 5 year

 

The Elite buyers would be mostly a whole different market, not really comparable to any of this

 

this programme is copying too much the retirement and especially Smart visas BOI, I really don't know why they did it like this, maybe in the longer term to increase retirement visa income requirements? or maybe to softly introduce tax to long term visas with income requirements?

Edited February 28, 2023 by humbug

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, humbug said:

It might seem their target was Elite, but reality it is more retirement and smart visas from BOI, and agree the number if applicants is nonsense, just blatant spin, even in the 100's, they will do well, as the visa is 5 years, thrn you have to ho through it all again to get the 2nd 5 year

 

and that's if the programmes still exists in 5 years, the Elite buyers would be a whole diffetent market, this programme is copying too much the retirement and especially Smart visas BOI, I really don't know why they did it, maybe to softly introduce tax to long term visas with income requirements?

No tax for the LTR-P wealthy pensioner visa. You guys do crack me up. This is far better than the Elite Visa unless you play golf. This will be around for a long time. The second 5 year stamp is a mere formality to ensure you still qualify and if a pensioner nothing shoukd change as the pension income for mine will just keep increasing with annual Cost of Living adjustments. Now those on the 4 other types of LTR visas might have issues if there jobs change.

[Gknrd]

2800 applicants.   hahahaha

Just a few more to get the million.  

Come work in a polluted country with life treating air quality, sub par pay and only 10 year visa. 

 

What a joke.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Gknrd

[jacob29]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

If they want to attract high enders, they have to come up with better ideas than that, example, land ownership would be a major incentive, who knows, I would probably end up buying some land in a tourist area, 

 

Why would Thailand want to encourage foreign rent seekers into their cash cows? Sitting on prime real estate is a non productive investment, and wealthy Thai people are right to protest foreign competition for such plum investments.

 

Yes building on the property can be productive. You don't need to own the underlying property for that to happen though.

[ThailandRyan]

22 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

2800 applicants.   hahahaha

Just a few more to get the million.  

Come work in a polluted country with life treating air quality, sub par pay and only 10 year visa. 

 

What a joke.

Yet with a LTR-P for a retired person on a pension I don't have to work, I pay no taxes and for 5k thb per year, basically, I can travel in and out without any issues. Win Win, something you folks just can't see. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, humbug said:

the visa is 5 years, then you have to go through it all again to get the 2nd 5 year

They expect to dictate inequitable terms and everyone to jump at them.

[JimGant]

35 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet with a LTR-P for a retired person on a pension I don't have to work, I pay no taxes and for 5k thb per year, basically, I can travel in and out without any issues. Win Win, something you folks just can't see. 

Ryan, these "folks" are those who don't qualify. For those who travel a lot, like you, the eternal reentry permit is golden. But even for those, like me, who don't travel at all, the LTR is advantageous. My only problem is that I've been informed that I can't show up in shorts for the final processing. Thus, off to the tailor for some khaki pants with the added circumference for my new gut. Sigh.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

22 hours ago, itsari said:

More spending by people with less creates more wealth . That is the  reason why the US became the largest consumer in the world 

Totally agree, yet the US has been shooting itself in the foot lately by saying they want more consumers, then turning around and outsourcing, laying off, and more recently, turning to automation.

 

20 years ago, former HP CEO Carly Fiorina said something like "There's no job that Americans have a right to anymore", in defense of her outsourcing. Well gee, fine. Looks like you've got fewer people left to buy your computers. Similarly, now it looks like ChatGPT is after all the customer service, research, copywriting, and journalism jobs. Such companies are salivating at the thought of "Wow, we can increase our profits by getting all these guys off our payroll, and replacing them with AI". Uhh, no, your profits will be zero once you've left everyone with no jobs, and no money to buy your products. Maybe the AI bots will be their new customer base.

 

It's gonna turn around tho. Already retailers are rethinking all the self-checkout machines, and going back to humans, as rampant theft with customers tricking the machines is negating any cost savings, heh.

 

Sorry if that was a bit off topic. Bringing it back, be it a company or a country, the strategy should be making the product more accessible to all to increase revenue, rather than hoping to squeeze more revenue out of a few. Anything that makes the product less accessible is the road to ruin. 

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, jacob29 said:

Sitting on prime real estate is a non productive investment, and wealthy Thai people are right to protest foreign competition for such plum investments.

Sitting on prime real estate can be productive as it pushes up prices when there is a shortage in particular areas. Less competition means less value, hence the reason land is so cheap in Thailand IMO, but foriegners can't own it, can they, get my point.

 

Ask yourself this, how many Thai's own land overseas, would it be beneficial for other countries to not allow Thai's to own land overseas ?

 

Allowing foreigners to own condo's, villa's, townhouses, i.e. within the confines of a strata development i.e. without being able to purchase land, is quite condescending IMO, and one reason I wouldn't purchase one of the above, especially while it keeps prices down, e.g. capital gains takes far too long vs abroad. 

 

12 hours ago, jacob29 said:

Yes building on the property can be productive. You don't need to own the underlying property for that to happen though.

Why would you build on land if you don't own the property ?

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Totally agree, yet the US has been shooting itself in the foot lately by saying they want more consumers, then turning around and outsourcing, laying off, and more recently, turning to automation.

 

20 years ago, former HP CEO Carly Fiorina said something like "There's no job that Americans have a right to anymore", in defense of her outsourcing. Well gee, fine. Looks like you've got fewer people left to buy your computers. Similarly, now it looks like ChatGPT is after all the customer service, research, copywriting, and journalism jobs. Such companies are salivating at the thought of "Wow, we can increase our profits by getting all these guys off our payroll, and replacing them with AI". Uhh, no, your profits will be zero once you've left everyone with no jobs, and no money to buy your products. Maybe the AI bots will be their new customer base.

 

It's gonna turn around tho. Already retailers are rethinking all the self-checkout machines, and going back to humans, as rampant theft with customers tricking the machines is negating any cost savings, heh.

 

Sorry if that was a bit off topic. Bringing it back, be it a company or a country, the strategy should be making the product more accessible to all to increase revenue, rather than hoping to squeeze more revenue out of a few. Anything that makes the product less accessible is the road to ruin. 

I agree with your opinion 100 percent.

As far as being off topic I disagree as the product in this case is the availability to live in Thailand without all the obstacles that the Thai Government creates. 

[LivinLOS]

23 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

But they're never going to get that. If wealthy people actually wanted to come here they would meet those requirements and have come already. Problem is they would rather be in some developed country with clean air and safe streets.

People post this and are then also stunned by 120k a month little condos on Phuket and 2000b lunch plates with many red plate high end marc in the car park.. 

Its cant be both. 

[LivinLOS]

18 hours ago, F Groenen said:

I did get a LTR-WFT visa, but a critical parts are still missing, still preventing me to work from Thailand permanently.

No official document explains that work from Thailand with this visa is allowed without a Work Permit.

There is no documentation for safeguarding your employer of Permanent Establishment (PE) rules, which opens up the door for the Thai Tax office to penalize your employer with taxes and fines.

Until the BOI can close these gaps, many people cannot apply for LTR-WFT as their employers cannot allow it.

Good info.. I have been saying these are very shoddily legally documented.. Even the 'you dont need a work permit' part is not backed up by real law only the enforcement and the 'you dont owe taxes on non Thai income' is similarly not what the law says only what they say.. This is what elite used to claim too, then changed thier tune when pressed on it. 

They had the vision but they didnt actually do the work to create the clear legal framework (no surprises there !!). 

[NorthernRyland]

24 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

People post this and are then also stunned by 120k a month little condos on Phuket and 2000b lunch plates with many red plate high end marc in the car park.. 

Its cant be both. 

What are you saying? Thailand has a 1% class just like anywhere. The question is can you get higher end pensioners and remote workers to move to Thailand in large numbers and the answer remains no.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

hence the reason land is so cheap in Thailand IMO, but foriegners can't own it, can they, get my point.

Really I was shocked how expensive land is in Chiang Mai. It's 2.5 mil per Rai even on the outer edges of the city in what is nearly rural in small villages. It's so expensive they're dividing it up into 11x11 meter pieces and selling with 3 year financing to individuals. The larger plots of land I see sell is quickly developed into low cost house projects where the homes are so close to each other the roofs nearly touch.

 

Foreigner investors would of course make this much worse since the market has basically priced out individuals even though there's still tons of empty space in Chiang Mai.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Sorry if that was a bit off topic. Bringing it back, be it a company or a country, the strategy should be making the product more accessible to all to increase revenue, rather than hoping to squeeze more revenue out of a few. Anything that makes the product less accessible is the road to ruin. 

Yet this seems to always be Thailand's strategy. I went to Chiang Dao a couple weeks ago with the plan to bike up the Doi Luang (just the main road) and they said the price was raised to 40 baht for Thais and 400 for foreigners. I got them to reduce it to 200 since I was just biking up and coming down but 400 is a joke.

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Really I was shocked how expensive land is in Chiang Mai. It's 2.5 mil per Rai even on the outer edges of the city in what is nearly rural in small villages. It's so expensive they're dividing it up into 11x11 meter pieces and selling with 3 year financing to individuals.

That's still cheap where I come from, i.e. the land down under.  Just 15km south of Sydney in October 2021 a vacant land parcel zoned for a single residential build on under a 607 square metre allotment sold for 42,500,000 baht.

 

No restrictions on who buys land there, and of course prices are stupidly high.

 

https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-bexley-137429018

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[digger70]

20 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Say what? The 10 year visa only costs 50k Thb for all 10 years that's 5k Thb a year, how do you get 100,000 a year for the visa? Because that is wrong. Your thinking of the Elite Visa which this is not.

OK, My Bad if that's the case but that's the only 10/20 Yr visa I can find , so that's what I Replied at. 

If that's the case ,I have to look into that. where can I find the the application to see what's needed  please.

[BritScot]

21 hours ago, mokwit said:

The constant tightening of visa/extension issuance screams that you should not retire here. They don't care if their latest requirement forces you out.

I can assure you I had enough income to stay in Thailand. Money was not the issue; uncertainty with ever changing rules. There was the over hanging threat of compulsory insurance because 8 years prior I looked into it for just my wife and son (my age would have been shockingly high) and it was far cheaper for me to buy a nice vehicle and my motorbikes all of which could be sold if needed and every 3 years I had a bonus on selling a vehicle which I would never have got with insurance). There was also the thought of walking about with a 400/800k target on my back.  Thailand is a country that has had cases of families tortured and murder over 100k. The final straw was being told by an imigration woman who I had seen every 90 days and yearly for 8 years said "it's only 800k". 

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, digger70 said:

OK, My Bad if that's the case but that's the only 10/20 Yr visa I can find , so that's what I Replied at. 

If that's the case ,I have to look into that. where can I find the the application to see what's needed  please.

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

[digger70]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

Thank you ,I can't find the 5/10 Yr  retirement visa you are talking about in that Link. 

That link seems to be only for the Elite Visa.

[jacob29]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Sitting on prime real estate can be productive as it pushes up prices when there is a shortage in particular areas. Less competition means less value, hence the reason land is so cheap in Thailand IMO

We know this isn't necessarily true by finding counter examples. The Japanese property bubble, for instance, which was followed by decades of stagnation. Excessive speculation can be harmful. Canada isn't looking particularly productive right now either (which is part of why they introduced stricter foreign ownership rules).

 

The kicker is that you and many others would likely be priced out by capital from China that needs to find a home abroad (beyond the reach of home authorities). You can't compete as they don't need strong returns to make it worth their while, and a bunch of vacation homes with low utilisation sitting idle is most definitely not productive.

Edited March 1, 2023 by jacob29

[NorthernRyland]

45 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That's still cheap where I come from, i.e. the land down under.  Just 15km south of Sydney in October 2021 a vacant land parcel zoned for a single residential build on under a 607 square metre allotment sold for 42,500,000 baht.

 

No restrictions on who buys land there, and of course prices are stupidly high.

 

https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-bexley-137429018

 

 

I understand AU has some terrible property problems and probably bubbles. I don't know where to compare Chiang Mai to but it's not AU for sure.

 

I know I can find land cheaper outside of medium sized American cities for less than Chiang Mai though and  the average income is going to be at least 4 times higher than CM so I don't see how it's a good investment here.

 

For example I saw on Facebook this 1.2 Rai plot of land is selling for 12 million baht. This is an area where average income is something like 20k baht/month and mainly students. Crazy prices I don't understand.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/dMDXBP55rT8hXGN59

[Misty]

20 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

No tax for the LTR-P wealthy pensioner visa. You guys do crack me up. This is far better than the Elite Visa unless you play golf. This will be around for a long time. The second 5 year stamp is a mere formality to ensure you still qualify and if a pensioner nothing shoukd change as the pension income for mine will just keep increasing with annual Cost of Living adjustments. Now those on the 4 other types of LTR visas might have issues if there jobs change.

Actually the Wealthy Global Citizens and their Dependents aren't work or job dependent, although they can certainly work in Thailand if they choose. 

 

Not sure what happens to the other two LTR visas if their jobs change.