Poll: For U.S. social security recipients who reside in Thailand, do you use a U.S. or Thai address?

[EVENKEEL]

For 20+ yrs I traveled the world with only a few months a yr spent in the USA waiting assignment, Was it fraudulent to claim a US address as my residence? Of course not, I paid my fed taxes, home Ins., car insurance, health care.

 

If I was still working past age 67 and collecting SS while never at home, Would that be fraudulent? Of course not. 

 

Regardless of sentiment I don't consider Thailand my home, not really. I spend most of my time here but considering I have to report every 90 days, get an extension yearly, I maintain multiple houses in the US, pay all my taxes, Is it really anyone's business where I choose to spend part of my year? 

 

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I thought this topic is whether or not you make a false declaration of residence to the US Social Security office.

It is.

But Social Security and Medicare are linked (must use the same address with both).

[jerrymahoney]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It is.

But Social Security and Medicare are linked (must use the same address with both).

Again the online application I used to apply for social security benefits asked specifically: Do you live at this address?

 

I said no -- I live in Thailand.

 

If someone wants to claim an address where they do not pay a mortgage or have a rent contract or have a utility bill in their name or have a vehicle registration, up to them.

Edited March 10, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Again the online application I used to apply for social security benefits asked specifically: Do you live at this address?

 

I said no -- I live in Thailand.

 

If someone wants to claim an address where they do not pay a mortgage or have a rent contract or have a utility bill in their name or have a vehicle registration, up to them.

I agree.

Its a comfort level thing.

Also about risk tolerance and arguably morality. 

I'm quite comfortable doing this with banks, etc.

It just feels harmless.

I would have a much more difficult time doing it with SS and Medicare.

Especially if combined with using Medicare Advantage.

I think it's interesting that this option exists but requires a rather significant deception.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

For 20+ yrs I traveled the world with only a few months a yr spent in the USA waiting assignment, Was it fraudulent to claim a US address as my residence? Of course not, I paid my fed taxes, home Ins., car insurance, health care.

 

If I was still working past age 67 and collecting SS while never at home, Would that be fraudulent? Of course not. 

 

Regardless of sentiment I don't consider Thailand my home, not really. I spend most of my time here but considering I have to report every 90 days, get an extension yearly, I maintain multiple houses in the US, pay all my taxes, Is it really anyone's business where I choose to spend part of my year? 

 

You see your residence as ambiguous. This topic really isn't for people that are unclear which country is their principle residence though.

I believe the vast majority of American expats know which country they live in.

There are always grey area cases with any issue.

I do think Thai immigration policies are irrelevant on this though.

Doing 90 day reports here has nothing to do with how US government entities would judge your residence country either way.

[jerrymahoney]

All the financial accounts I have and use while here in Thailand I had for many years before moving to Thailand about 20 years ago.

 

A few years ago, it would have been advantageous for me to set up a new US-based investment banking account. Could not do because of all the PATRIOT Act restrictions some of which I noted in post above.

Edited March 10, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[JustThisOnePostOnly]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Could not do because of all the PATRIOT Act restrictions some of which I noted in post above.

Meanwhile, you can get a 10-pack of box cutters from Amazon delivered to your door for $9.99.

 

Is it also because of the PATRIOT Act that I have to have the U.S.-based phone number to access the mySSN portal?  That in the end was the show-stopper for me.  I maintain a U.S. based mailing address for a reason, as a place where important and sensitive documents can be sent to me regardless of where in the world I happen to be at the moment.

 

Forcing me to use a Thai address (or Mexico if/when that happens again) essentially forces me to see information I want to see stay secure, like my SSN, available to any individual with the motive and opportunity to acccess it.

 

For instance, while we can say good things about the Thai postal service, my last notice from Social Security was just left sitting there in my condo inbox.  Anybody at all could see it, know what it was, and take advantage of the situation.

 

And what then when I return to Mexico?  As much as I love Mexico, their postal system is famously unreliable.  Will they also be sending my SSN in the mail to me there?

Whereas, if I were allowed to use my U.S. mailing address, I could use a service like DHL to have the document delivered to me securely.

[jerrymahoney]

The only mail ex-Thailand I get delivered to my Thai address is from IRS and SSA.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

You can just make an appointment with any doctor/clinic/hospital that accepts Medicare. Many will list this on their website. If in doubt call the office and ask. Medicare without a Medicare Advantage or Medigap plan is called :original Medicare."

 

Make sure you have at minimum both parts A and B.  And note there are deductibles and copays such that costs can be significant. And drug costs off the wall.  If you anticipate getting a lot of curative care in US than Part D (drug cover) is highly adviosable.

 

Bring Medicare card with you and show it when you check in.  Be prepared for billing/office staff to constantly ask  for your "supplemental" as it is rare in US for people to have only original Medicare. (If you actually spend 6 months or more a year in US then you should get a supplemental, but most of us do not).

Thanks Sheryl, I have A & B. The only time I would use it in the I think would be in something of an emergency while in the US or if I got some chronic, really expensive disease here and flew back for treatment. 

 

I think the only way I would relocate back would be if my boy wanted to go to grad-school.

[Sheryl]

55 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Thanks Sheryl, I have A & B. The only time I would use it in the I think would be in something of an emergency while in the US or if I got some chronic, really expensive disease here and flew back for treatment. 

 

I think the only way I would relocate back would be if my boy wanted to go to grad-school.

Don't forget the wellness benefits as no copay for those. That is what I use it for. Annual wellness visit with labs mammogram, bone density, colonoscopy (the last 2 not every year) etc.

 

Which also means I am a known patient to a US GP should that ever be important (for example, if  get thyroid cancer, as my health insurance has a thyroid exclusion...or simply need a prescription while in the US).

[Sheryl]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

For 20+ yrs I traveled the world with only a few months a yr spent in the USA waiting assignment, Was it fraudulent to claim a US address as my residence? Of course not, I paid my fed taxes, home Ins., car insurance, health care.

 

If I was still working past age 67 and collecting SS while never at home, Would that be fraudulent? Of course not. 

 

Regardless of sentiment I don't consider Thailand my home, not really. I spend most of my time here but considering I have to report every 90 days, get an extension yearly, I maintain multiple houses in the US, pay all my taxes, Is it really anyone's business where I choose to spend part of my year? 

 

Medicare Advantage plans think it is, and require that you live at least 6 months of the year not only in the US but in their specific coverage area...which is why I do nto have it.

 

For SS benefits and basic medicare, I agree, not important.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Don't forget the wellness benefits as no copay for those. That is what I use it for. Annual wellness visit with labs mammogram, bone density, colonoscopy (the last 2 not every year) etc.

 

Which also means I am a known patient to a US GP should that ever be important (for example, if  get thyroid cancer, as my health insurance has a thyroid exclusion...or simply need a prescription while in the US).

That's great to know. I'll set up a wellness visit in the US next time I visit. 

 

I don't suppose you have a recommendation for a facility/doctor in Southern California? 

 

Thanks again!

[jerrymahoney]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Medicare Advantage plans think it is, and require that you live at least 6 months of the year not only in the US but in their specific coverage area...which is why I do nto have it.

 

For SS benefits and basic medicare, I agree, not important.

The gentleman to whom you above referred says that he "maintains multiple houses in the US."

 

I think JT's original request was more toward persons who use a friend or relative's US address where they are not a principal owner or maintain other PATRIOT-Act compliant options.

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

The gentleman to whom you above referred says that he "maintains multiple houses in the US."

 

I think JT's original request was more toward persons who use a friend or relative's US address where they are not a principal owner or maintain other PATRIOT-Act compliant options.

Exactly. 

If you've got any kind of defensible argument that you're really a US resident, this  poll is most definitely NOT about you.

Not sure what I could have done to make that more clear.

[Skallywag]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:32 AM, Jingthing said:

About the poll results so far if they reflect reality I am surprised at the low percentage using US addresses. I would have guessed about 40 percent. 

We "reside" here, many of us are simply not be able to afford to keep a U.S. address.

 

I do like your point that we paid into Medicare, so why can't we use it abroad.  Likely the ability or willingness of Medicare to communicate with Thai hospitals and accountants here on the billing.  

 

Although the label "expat" seems to point out that "We're not in Kansas anymore"  Wizard of Oz 1939!   555

 

[Yellowtail]

12 hours ago, Skallywag said:

We "reside" here, many of us are simply not be able to afford to keep a U.S. address.

 

I do like your point that we paid into Medicare, so why can't we use it abroad.  Likely the ability or willingness of Medicare to communicate with Thai hospitals and accountants here on the billing.  

 

Although the label "expat" seems to point out that "We're not in Kansas anymore"  Wizard of Oz 1939!   555

 

Were it just Thailand it would not be that big a deal, but they would have to negotiate contracts with most of the hospitals in over 100 countries. 

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:18 AM, Yellowtail said:

Were it just Thailand it would not be that big a deal, but they would have to negotiate contracts with most of the hospitals in over 100 countries. 

In 2010 there was a RAND corp. study as to at least extending Medicare benefit to Mexico:

 

There is a lack of hard data on the exact number of Medicare-eligible retirees residing in Mexico, but it is at least in the tens of thousands and is certainly rising as the baby boom generation reaches retirement. Because Medicare does not cover health services received outside the United States, these retirees must travel to the United States for health care or purchase alternative coverage for health services received in Mexico.

 

https://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP314.html

[Berkshire]

I just stumbled upon this topic as I'm thinking about this very issue.  I will file for SS benefits this year and debating whether I should file with my US address or Thailand.  I've looked at my online SS account and it appears I can apply online....relatively painlessly (I think, haven't started yet).  My SS account still has my US address, as does my US bank accounts, brokerage, etc. 

 

But if I file with the Thai address, I'll have to go through Manila.  Some say Manila's great, some say not. 

 

If anyone's filed with a US address (while living in Thailand), I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter, i.e., your experiences, difficulties, etc. 

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I just stumbled upon this topic as I'm thinking about this very issue.  I will file for SS benefits this year and debating whether I should file with my US address or Thailand.  I've looked at my online SS account and it appears I can apply online....relatively painlessly (I think, haven't started yet).  My SS account still has my US address, as does my US bank accounts, brokerage, etc. 

 

But if I file with the Thai address, I'll have to go through Manila.  Some say Manila's great, some say not. 

 

If anyone's filed with a US address (while living in Thailand), I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter, i.e., your experiences, difficulties, etc. 

If you apply for Medicare using a Thai address you MUST change your SS to that same Thai address as they NEED to match.

Knowing what I know now, if I was in your situation I would probably file for Medicare with my US address.

 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

If you apply for Medicare using a Thai address you MUST change your SS to that same Thai address as they NEED to match.

Knowing what I know now, if I was in your situation I would probably file for Medicare with my US address.

 

Thanks for that.  I actually have a separate health plan, so not too worried about medicare.

[EVENKEEL]

34 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Thanks for that.  I actually have a separate health plan, so not too worried about medicare.

In that case when you hit 65 and you use a USA address, they will automatically give you part B Medicare which costs about $170/mo or more depending on reported income. Have to catch the form they send to your address to say you don't want Part B.

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

In that case when you hit 65 and you use a USA address, they will automatically give you part B Medicare which costs about $170/mo or more depending on reported income. Have to catch the form they send to your address to say you don't want Part B.

Good point....thanks.

[Berkshire]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

In that case when you hit 65 and you use a USA address, they will automatically give you part B Medicare which costs about $170/mo or more depending on reported income. Have to catch the form they send to your address to say you don't want Part B.

I'm actually considering using my USA address initially when I apply, and then perhaps moving to my Thai address after a year or two.  Not sure what that entails, but would involve transferring my SS benefits to a Thai bank...among other things.

[Jingthing]

There is no problem depositing SS into a US bank with a Thai address on record with SS. That's what I do.

[JimGant]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:04 AM, Jingthing said:

Americans living abroad with a social security claim are required to have their foreign address on file with social security.

That's not true, if the foreign country you're living in allows receipt of your entitled SS retirement benefit. Living in Cuba or North Korea, however, puts your entitled retirement payment on "hold," until you vacate those countries. Then, you'll receive the withheld payments. But even here, there's no criminal or civil penalty if you're eligible for an SSA retirement check, but didn't advise that you moved to Cuba. Yes, in the North Korea and Cuba situation, they would like you to notify them -- and if you didn't, and they found out, well, only recourse would be to withhold in abeyance any further payments while in these countries.

 

And if you live in Thailand, yes, they would like you to notify them. But there is no legal requirement that you do, since you're entitled to your SS retirement check in Thailand, and the other 98% of the world. No fraud, if you're entitled. Thus, no legal recourse.

 

Where folks get confused is with SSI payments. These are *not* entitlements, but forms of welfare. They have not been "earned," so are not payable outside the US. Thus, if you leave the US for over 30 days, and don't tell the SSA, you're committing fraud if you receive SSI payments. This is a huge problem, so Google if you're curious. Bottom line: Any SSI payment while outside the US needs to be returned, and any future SSI payments, when back in the US, are held up for several months as a penalty.

 

So, all these discussions on this forum about breaking the law when you move to Thailand, and have an earned SSA retirement benefit -- and don't report your new Thai address -- is scaremongering by the SSA, 'cause they really do want your overseas address. But by not reporting it is not going to affect any future SS retirement payments.

 

So, if you received SS retirement prior to moving to Thailand, and had an SS Online account -- and presumably established a mail forwarding address when you moved to Thailand -- just log on and change your address to that mail forwarding address. They're well aware this can be a mail forwarding address (think of all those thousand RV retirees). And, then they ask, in the affirmative: "This is my physical address." Just don't check that block, and you're completely kosher (didn't check that block three years ago, and no curiosity from the SSA).

 

Anyway, I have no ethical questions about not getting the "are you alive" letters. I understand their concern, but when I croak, the SSA will know it when the wife files for her Air Force survivor benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by JimGant

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

That's not true, if the foreign country you're living in allows receipt of your entitled SS retirement benefit. Living in Cuba or North Korea, however, puts your entitled retirement payment on "hold," until you vacate those countries. Then, you'll receive the withheld payments. But even here, there's no criminal or civil penalty if you're eligible for an SSA retirement check, but didn't advise that you moved to Cuba. Yes, in the North Korea and Cuba situation, they would like you to notify them -- and if you didn't, and they found out, well, only recourse would be to withhold in abeyance any further payments while in these countries.

 

And if you live in Thailand, yes, they would like you to notify them. But there is no legal requirement that you do, since you're entitled to your SS retirement check in Thailand, and the other 98% of the world. No fraud, if you're entitled. Thus, no legal recourse.

 

Where folks get confused is with SSI payments. These are *not* entitlements, but forms of welfare. They have not been "earned," so are not payable outside the US. Thus, if you leave the US for over 30 days, and don't tell the SSA, you're committing fraud if you receive SSI payments. This is a huge problem, so Google if you're curious. Bottom line: Any SSI payment while outside the US needs to be returned, and any future SSI payments, when back in the US, are held up for several months as a penalty.

 

So, all these discussions on this forum about breaking the law when you move to Thailand, and have an earned SSA retirement benefit -- and don't report your new Thai address -- is scaremongering by the SSA, 'cause they really do want your overseas address. But by not reporting it is not going to affect any future SS retirement payments.

 

So, if you received SS retirement prior to moving to Thailand, and had an SS Online account -- and presumably established a mail forwarding address when you moved to Thailand -- just log on and change your address to that mail forwarding address. They're well aware this is can be a mail forwarding address (think of all those thousand RV retirees). And, then they ask, in the affirmative: "This is my physical address." Just don't check that block, and you're completely kosher (didn't check that block three years ago, and no curiosity from the SSA).

 

Anyway, I have no ethical questions about not getting the "are you alive" letters. I understand their concern, but when I croak, the SSA will know it when the wife files for her Air Force survivor benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a lot.

But more practically you change your Medicare address through Social Security and when doing that they won't allow your Social Security and Medicare address to be different.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Jingthing

[JimGant]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

you change your Medicare address through Social Security

I don't ever recall telling Medicare my address. I received Medicare automatically at age 65, as I was already receiving SS. Presumably Medicare used the address I had on file with the SSA, as I've certainly never contacted Medicare (wouldn't know how) for address upgrade, or whatever. So, I assume Medicare now uses my mail forwarding address I gave the SSA on my Online SS account.

 

Makes no never mind for me, not getting Medicare here in Thailand. Not sure how one would disentangle their Medicare from SSA account to accommodate Medicare Advantage.......

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, JimGant said:

I don't ever recall telling Medicare my address. I received Medicare automatically at age 65, as I was already receiving SS. Presumably Medicare used the address I had on file with the SSA, as I've certainly never contacted Medicare (wouldn't know how) for address upgrade, or whatever. So, I assume Medicare now uses my mail forwarding address I gave the SSA on my Online SS account.

 

Makes no never mind for me, not getting Medicare here in Thailand. Not sure how one would disentangle their Medicare from SSA account to accommodate Medicare Advantage.......

Well regardless if you ever do need to change your Medicare address.you must do that through Social Security and the addresses must match

 

[tamy]

not sure if this is the correct SSA news blog there are too many SSA.GOV topics to help older retired USA citizens isolated retired

in Thailand no longer alive contacts to deceased USA family / friends

Hello and thank you for your time to comment

To clarify snd sdvise older retired USA citizens living in Thailand

there is two methods to receive SSA benefits... One is the use of

Bangkok Bank FDA located in New York that forwards the money

to your bank in Thailand but restricts the pickup to be in person with a passport this is the ACH method using a triangle delivery from New York......

The new updated method is the SWIFT methoid using your Thailand

ATM or Credit card Bangkok Bank account number that do not need

a passport personal cash pickup the SSA.GOV form name IDD SWIFT form is  svsilsble for download to every international country here

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199.html 

This form was signed by Thailand Bank Of Bangkok office manager

and then mailed to Manila FBU and then verified by USA SSA.GOV who then sent IDD deposit last year to our ATM debit card account....

 

Changing subject to DIRECT EXPRESS SSA ATM DEBIT card please

read the offering you can take cash out with a form and use the

card same as a standard original USA CREDIT card but SSA will not assign a credit card it assign a DEBIT card that has to have money deposited every month your SSA  Benefit deposit money to your DEBIT card