Woof999 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Brexit has been a success in stopping mass immigration from Europe . Whether you agree with Brexit or not, you cannot deny that Brexit has stopped mass immigration You might be spot on there. I left the UK before the referendum so I haven't seen first hand what the UK has become, but had I stayed I would have voted against, as I believe it was the least worst choice. To keep on topic (and not directly answering something from you), I believe immigration issues now are harder to resolve because of immigration policies from the past. That would include Blair's government and, going back much further, the influx of migrants from the old Empire. The Tories might have made policy to reverse the trend but didn't. Whether that was because of EU legislation or not I do not know. However, I strongly believe that immigration policy is cumulative. The policies from the past directly influence the policies of today precisely because they shape the electorate who ultimately get to choose who makes those very policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted March 16, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: Brexit has been a success in stopping mass immigration from Europe . Whether you agree with Brexit or not, you cannot deny that Brexit has stopped mass immigration Definitely a success! Critical hiring crisis' as labour shortage threatens economic recovery A lack of workers is threatening to undermine the economic recovery as bosses warn of a "critical hiring crisis". Almost 1.3m job vacancies were on offer in the three months to January, a record high according to the Office for National Statistics. Suren Thiru, head of economics at the British Chambers of Commerce, warned: “With high economic inactivity indicating that many people have left the jobs market altogether, chronic staff shortages are likely to weigh on the UK economy for a sustained period." lack of workers is threatening to undermine the economic recovery as bosses warn of a "critical hiring crisis". Almost 1.3m job vacancies were on offer in the three months to January, a record high according to the Office for National Statistics.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/15/critical-hiring-crisis-labour-shortage-threatens-economic-recovery/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, placeholder said: Definitely a success! Critical hiring crisis' as labour shortage threatens economic recovery A lack of workers is threatening to undermine the economic recovery as bosses warn of a "critical hiring crisis". Almost 1.3m job vacancies were on offer in the three months to January, a record high according to the Office for National Statistics. Suren Thiru, head of economics at the British Chambers of Commerce, warned: “With high economic inactivity indicating that many people have left the jobs market altogether, chronic staff shortages are likely to weigh on the UK economy for a sustained period." lack of workers is threatening to undermine the economic recovery as bosses warn of a "critical hiring crisis". Almost 1.3m job vacancies were on offer in the three months to January, a record high according to the Office for National Statistics.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/15/critical-hiring-crisis-labour-shortage-threatens-economic-recovery/ And the solution to that problem UK visa rules to be relaxed for foreign construction workers in a bid to plug post-Brexit labour shortages Visa rules will be relaxed to allow more foreign construction workers to come to the UK in a bid to tackle labour shortages in certain industries. The Government is expected to relax rules for roofers, plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters and plasterers to plug gaps in the construction labour force and boost economic growth. https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-visa-rules-relaxed-foreign-construction-workers-post-brexit-labour-shortage-2209182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Slip Posted March 16, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: And the solution to that problem UK visa rules to be relaxed for foreign construction workers in a bid to plug post-Brexit labour shortages Visa rules will be relaxed to allow more foreign construction workers to come to the UK in a bid to tackle labour shortages in certain industries. The Government is expected to relax rules for roofers, plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters and plasterers to plug gaps in the construction labour force and boost economic growth. https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-visa-rules-relaxed-foreign-construction-workers-post-brexit-labour-shortage-2209182 More knee jerk reaction from this hopeless tory shower. Get them out. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Slip said: More knee jerk reaction from this hopeless tory shower. Get them out. So you disagree with the Gov providing work visas to fill labour shortages ? Logically you must think that the UK shouldn't provide work visas for people to come to work in the UK So you would support the Conservative government if they didn't provide work visas for foreign workers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: And the solution to that problem UK visa rules to be relaxed for foreign construction workers in a bid to plug post-Brexit labour shortages Visa rules will be relaxed to allow more foreign construction workers to come to the UK in a bid to tackle labour shortages in certain industries. The Government is expected to relax rules for roofers, plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters and plasterers to plug gaps in the construction labour force and boost economic growth. https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-visa-rules-relaxed-foreign-construction-workers-post-brexit-labour-shortage-2209182 So, that deficit of 1.3 million workers is mostly in the construction trade.? And even if the UK offers those visas, who's to say how many will take up the offer? 'I don't feel welcome anymore': EU citizens explain why they are leaving the UK in their thousands https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-migration-uk-brexit-referendum-latest-net-fall-figures-why-racism-hate-crime-brexodus-government-a7911196.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, placeholder said: So, that deficit of 1.3 million workers is mostly in the construction trade.? And even if the UK offers those visas, who's to say how many will take up the offer? 'I don't feel welcome anymore': EU citizens explain why they are leaving the UK in their thousands https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-migration-uk-brexit-referendum-latest-net-fall-figures-why-racism-hate-crime-brexodus-government-a7911196.html That is news from 2017 , 6 years ago . (Not to mention that 6 million E.U citizens decided to stay in the U.k post Brexit ) Time to move on from that . So, as we have it . The Government doesn't stop illegal immigration = Useless and incompetent . Th government stops illegal immigration = Nazis The government gives out working visas = hopeless So, everything they do and anything they do is the wrong thing to do . Edited March 16, 2023 by Mac Mickmanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephbloggs Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Woof999 said: I seem to remember the government in place before the Tories had their own agenda on immigration. My memory is a little cloudy, but I recall it was something along the lines of "let then all in as they will vote for the left". Righty ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 28 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: That is news from 2017 , 6 years ago . (Not to mention that 6 million E.U citizens decided to stay in the U.k post Brexit ) Time to move on from that . So, as we have it . The Government doesn't stop illegal immigration = Useless and incompetent . Th government stops illegal immigration = Nazis The government gives out working visas = hopeless So, everything they do and anything they do is the wrong thing to do . First off, you didn't even bother to answer the fact that you seem to be assuming that the shortage of labor is confined to construction workers. In fact, previously the visa rules for other jobs such as workers in the health care sector have been relaxed for over a year. How has that workout out? Healthcare staff shortage main factor in near-record job vacancies https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/healthcare-staff-shortages-fuelling-near-record-job-vacancies-across-uk-economy Second, Brexit has consequences. Long-term consequences. As for your raising of the illegal immigration issue, you replied to my comment about the "success" of Brexit by countering with the governments relaxation of visa rules. Nothing about illegal immigration in my comment and it's irrelevant to the issue I raised. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 hours ago, placeholder said: First off, you didn't even bother to answer the fact that you seem to be assuming that the shortage of labor is confined to construction workers. In fact, previously the visa rules for other jobs such as workers in the health care sector have been relaxed for over a year. How has that workout out? Healthcare staff shortage main factor in near-record job vacancies https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/healthcare-staff-shortages-fuelling-near-record-job-vacancies-across-uk-economy Second, Brexit has consequences. Long-term consequences. As for your raising of the illegal immigration issue, you replied to my comment about the "success" of Brexit by countering with the governments relaxation of visa rules. Nothing about illegal immigration in my comment and it's irrelevant to the issue I raised. There are currently a record number of people working for the NHS , a record high of 1.2 million people working for the NHS and there have been 29 000 more nurses added since Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James105 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 15 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: Firstly, the assumption that the policies are meant to control the borders is demonstrably false. The policies are intended to somehow discourage people who are already willing to put their life at risk. Secondly the policies, all 43 of them, have failed: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/07/conservatives-channel-crossings-small-boats-tories-rwanda-deportation Thirdly the latest offering, and a few of the others have themselves been illegal. Fourthly, the Government and ministers resorting to dehumanizing language when speaking of migrants, Fifthly, it’s an international problem that will require cooperation with other nations and very specifically with the EU. The easy fixes to complex problems might appeal to some but they have consistently failed and will continue to do so. And finally, the attempt to distract from all the other far more pressing Government failures is plainly obvious. Australia disincentivised the illegal immigration to their shores by offshoring asylum processing and it absolutely worked to stop small boat journeys so to say that something that has not been tried in the UK would not work when it has clearly worked elsewhere is ridiculous. A governments first priority is to keep its citizens safe. If people are illegally entering the UK without documentation then it is impossible to ascertain their intentions or if they are genuine asylum seekers. Other countries seem to have the right to say no to those arriving across their borders without documentation so why is it illegal for the UK to prevent this? The result of ignoring this problem has led to tens of thousands attempting the dangerous crossing across the channel with number only ever going up. Why not just say you want open borders as this would take a lot less words than the obfuscating you did above? Of course at the same time you would have to say you wish to destroy the NHS and the welfare state as this would be the end result of such an inane policy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: I seem to recall the channel was always there, and then coincident with Brexit the Government lost control of the border and immigration. I don’t support illegal immigration, that’s just you engaging in ad hominem again. You seem to have missed the implementation of rubber boats supplied by dodgy folk charging for their ferry service. You missing out the obvious to keep your political agenda going is very tiresome...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: I believe the Government of the day is responsible for the governance of the day. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. Your band of brothers will obviously think the same, but never nothing to do with their lot when in office................????........................ Enoch was right............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, transam said: Your band of brothers will obviously think the same, but never nothing to do with their lot when in office................????........................ Enoch was right............ Can you spot the ridiculousness of your argument? Here, I’ll help you out: You object, to the the political party that has been continuously in Government for over twelve years being held responsible for their failure to control the borders and immigration but then add ‘Your band of brothers will obviously think the same, but never nothing to do with their lot when in office” So which is it trans’, are Governments responsible for their failed policies when in power or aren’t they? Make your mind up. Edited March 17, 2023 by Chomper Higgot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post josephbloggs Posted March 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, transam said: Your band of brothers will obviously think the same, but never nothing to do with their lot when in office................????........................ Enoch was right............ Gosh this is tiring when you keep throwing in childish comments like "your lot", "your band of brothers" etc. Try using adult language, it makes things much more engaging. I'll give you an analogy. I am the CEO of a large corporation and I have been CEO for more than 12 years. The company is failing badly, we are losing market share, staff are quitting in droves, revenue is falling off a cliff and our products are not being bought. Is that my fault as the CEO, or is it the fault of the previous CEO from over a decade ago? In your eyes it would be the previous CEO, right? Even if the previous one was terrible I have had 12 years to fix things yet they just keep getting worse. (The staff of my company also voted to restrict our market size, voted to add cost, red tape and bureaucracy to our exports, and expelled a lot of our foreign workforce, but that's another analogy for another day) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Can you spot the ridiculousness of your argument? Here, I’ll help you out: You object, to the the political party that has been continuously in Government for over twelve years being held responsible for their failure to control the borders and immigration but then add ‘Your band of brothers will obviously think the same, but never nothing to do with their lot when in office” So which is it trans’, are Governments responsible for their failed policies when in power or aren’t they? Make your mind up. Unlike you, I do not support any political Party, I am responding to you because of your ant-everything bias. Regarding this subject, you haven't said a word about the criminals ferrying illegals across the channel, not a word, "it's the Tory's fault", if Corby & Abbott were in control, for sure, not a word.. Like a scratched record, never stops playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, josephbloggs said: Gosh this is tiring when you keep throwing in childish comments like "your lot", "your band of brothers" etc. Try using adult language, it makes things much more engaging. I'll give you an analogy. I am the CEO of a large corporation and I have been CEO for more than 12 years. The company is failing badly, we are losing market share, staff are quitting in droves, revenue is falling off a cliff and our products are not being bought. Is that my fault as the CEO, or is it the fault of the previous CEO from over a decade ago? In your eyes it would be the previous CEO, right? Even if the previous one was terrible I have had 12 years to fix things yet they just keep getting worse. (The staff of my company also voted to restrict our market size, voted to add cost, red tape and bureaucracy to our exports, and expelled a lot of our foreign workforce, but that's another analogy for another day) Yeh, I am a CEO too......Off-topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, transam said: Unlike you, I do not support any political Party, I am responding to you because of your ant-everything bias. Regarding this subject, you haven't said a word about the criminals ferrying illegals across the channel, not a word, "it's the Tory's fault", if Corby & Abbott were in control, for sure, not a word.. Like a scratched record, never stops playing... Once again you demonstrate the absurdity of your argument. Incidentally I didn’t say you support any political party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Once again you demonstrate the absurdity of your argument. Incidentally I didn’t say you support any political party. My points, not yours, and as for absurdity, being an anti-, is definitely absurd, and strange....???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post josephbloggs Posted March 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, transam said: Yeh, I am a CEO too......Off-topic... How is that off topic? It is an analogy to describe the massive flaw in your argument. And you obviously have no comeback hence the deflection. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said: There are currently a record number of people working for the NHS , a record high of 1.2 million people working for the NHS and there have been 29 000 more nurses added since Brexit But there would be more if... Brexit: Thousands Of E.U. Doctors Shunned The U.K. Following Referendum https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehignett/2022/11/29/brexit-thousands-of-eu-doctors-shunned-the-uk-following-referendum/?sh=4625421f7071 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, josephbloggs said: How is that off topic? It is an analogy to describe the massive flaw in your argument. And you obviously have no comeback hence the deflection. I am not interested in your purported employment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, transam said: I am not interested in your purported employment.... Maybe next time he should put in boldface oversized capital letters: THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL CASE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 49 minutes ago, placeholder said: But there would be more if... Brexit: Thousands Of E.U. Doctors Shunned The U.K. Following Referendum https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehignett/2022/11/29/brexit-thousands-of-eu-doctors-shunned-the-uk-following-referendum/?sh=4625421f7071 Up to them...............???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, transam said: Up to them...............???? No one has suggested they were coerced. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, placeholder said: Maybe next time he should put in boldface oversized capital letters: THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL CASE Telling me what to do again, tiresome................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, placeholder said: No one has suggested they were coerced. What's your point? Up to them........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephbloggs Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, transam said: I am not interested in your purported employment.... Do you understand what an analogy is? For clarity I am NOT the CEO of a major corporation - did you really need that explaining? It was an analogy: "a comparison between things that have similar features, often used to help explain a principle or idea." Now that you know I was not referring to my employment (which you state you would not be interested in) and that the story was used as a device to highlight the flaw in your argument by way of a comparison, would you care to respond? Or will you just deflect for a third time? (I think I know the answer) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Mickmanus Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 59 minutes ago, placeholder said: But there would be more if... Brexit: Thousands Of E.U. Doctors Shunned The U.K. Following Referendum https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehignett/2022/11/29/brexit-thousands-of-eu-doctors-shunned-the-uk-following-referendum/?sh=4625421f7071 The U.K really needs to start training its own Doctors , rather than taking other Countries doctors . Its a bit unfair that a Country spends educating a person for 20 years to become a Doctor and then that Doctors moves to work in the UK . The U.K should train its own Doctors , rather than taking other Countries Doctors 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said: The U.K really needs to start training its own Doctors , rather than taking other Countries doctors . Its a bit unfair that a Country spends educating a person for 20 years to become a Doctor and then that Doctors moves to work in the UK . The U.K should train its own Doctors , rather than taking other Countries Doctors I agree. Would that the Tories did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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