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Joint Bank Account--widow refused access


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10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The bank will not discuss with you as a third party.

 

What entity notarized the translated death certificate?

She went alone. A Thai lawyer/notary public notarised the translated document and the orignial UK death certificate.

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4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you blame the bank for doing due diligence?

Obviously she should be able to have access to that account. But give the bank a little time to confirm the details.

 

A few years ago I had to deal with some banks in Europe in a similar issue. It took months and lots of sometimes duplicated documents. Obviously it's nice if things happen fast, but sometimes we just have to wait and go through the process. 

The bank had a week, and then said they needed to refer to the uK...who and why they would not say, and sadly the widow was too meek and mild   (to put it frankly....plain dumb) to ask or request to see the manager as she had been told to do.

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5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You could use Crypto ... 

Never, not interested in that, very risky.

 

Exchanging in and out would at some point give rise to cause even more issues at any point in the normal banking system.

Edited by userabcd
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26 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The bank will not discuss with you as a third party.

 

What entity notarized the translated death certificate?

You mention they had a joint savings account.

Just to be clear, gets the facts right, is the joint savings account set up

- So that both parties must sign a withdrawal slip?

- Only one party needs to sign?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And somehow you think "a week" is a long time for such enquiry. Think again! Some official procedures take months, even if all documents are supplied and all works according to plan. 

Sorry disagree. Joint account, husband dead, It is her money. proof of death provided. What more do they need! Even without his death, it was a joint account with just one  signature needed for withddrawal  NOT BOTH.

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1 minute ago, scorecard said:

You mention they had a joint savings account.

Just to be clear, gets the facts right, is the joint savings account set up

- So that both parties must sign a withdrawal slip?

- Only one party needs to sign?

 

 

Just one party.  As I said above she had been witdrawing regularly in the bank branch - until the book was full

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10 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

She went alone. A Thai lawyer/notary public notarised the translated document and the orignial UK death certificate.

I am not sure what value Thai notarization holds on a foreign-sourced document since the last time I checked, this country wasn't signatory to any international conventions on apostille. However, since this is a Thai institution seeking evidence, one would think the local notary would suffice.

 

I just checked and the British Embassy in Bangkok does not include attesting to UK-issued death certificates (if they ever did) in their limited services. Maybe the death certificate and notarized translation needs another stamp from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs either in Bangkok or Chiang Mai to make the bank happy?

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1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

I am not sure what value Thai notarization holds on a foreign-sourced document since the last time I checked, this country wasn't signatory to any international conventions on apostille. However, since this is a Thai institution seeking evidence, one would think the local notary would suffice.

 

I just checked and the British Embassy in Bangkok does not include attesting to UK-issued death certificates (if they ever did) in their limited services. Maybe the death certificate and notarized translation needs another stamp from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs either in Bangkok or Chiang Mai to make the bank happy?

That may be the case, but a) they won't say and b) they were given all they asked for.

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Just now, Liquorice said:

How can a Thai lawyer authenticate a UK death certificate.

The correct procedure is to have the British Embassy authenticate the document, then have it translated, then legalised by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Only then will it be acceptable as a genuine foreign document by the bank - hence their enquiries.

 

It's also no longer a 'joint' account per se.

Valid comments, but she provided all that was asked for.

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3 minutes ago, scorecard said:
32 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The bank will not discuss with you as a third party.

 

What entity notarized the translated death certificate?

You mention they had a joint savings account.

Just to be clear, gets the facts right, is the joint savings account set up

- So that both parties must sign a withdrawal slip?

- Only one party needs to sign?

Also check the small print to see what the banks policy on surviving signatories in the event of one or the other's early passing?

 

It's not a 'Thailand thing' either. When my father passed away in Scotland, there was quite a bit of a paper chasing for mum to maintain access to the funds in the joint account they held at the same branch for 56 years. A branch where their ONLY banking transactions were personal walk-in jobs. The staff were duly respectful but their rules insisted that the paper trail be completed before she could become the sole account holder. At that juncture, we decided that my sister obtain power of attorney for mum's estate and that helped immensely with withdrawing money and closing the account when she also passed away a few years later.

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8 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

The correct procedure is to have the British Embassy authenticate the document, then have it translated, then legalised by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Services we provide in Thailand

Consular staff can provide the following services only:

Before applying for one of our services contact the relevant Thai authority to find out what you need. This could be the local district office (amphur/amphoe), immigration office, ministries or another authority in Thailand, the UK or a third country.

Check that the document(s) we are able to provide will be accepted by the relevant authority and make sure you select the most appropriate service.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#services-we-provide-in-thailand

 

No mention of authenticating UK-issued death certificates.

 

 

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I don't want to hijack this thread, but it would be interesting to know what is the best procedure to setup such account to make sure the surviving person has full access without delay.

I also plan to setup such an account for my gf. In case that I die she should have full access to all the money in that account right away (to pay bills, etc.). And she and I should also have independent full access to that account when we live. Obviously there is some trust involved. But it's good to have someone to get money out of the bank in emergencies. 

 

And in case she dies first, which is unlikely but obviously not impossible, then I should have full access.

I wouldn't put all my money into such a joint account because I don't want that she runs away with all the money. But for emergencies it is a good idea that she has access to some money.

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26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And, as far as I know, many of those regulations are there to protect us, the honest bank customers. 

Yes, and a woman not informing her bank of the death of her joint account holder but continuing to take money out (regardless of her apparent ignorance) is a big red flag to a bank.

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29 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Joint account, husband dead, It is her money. proof of death provided.

Proof of death provided years after his death and only when she was forced to provide it, yes?  By law, she is obligated to inform the bank of the death of its account holder at the time of his death.

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28 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Sorry disagree. Joint account, husband dead, It is her money. proof of death provided.

I wonder if that is true.

I.e. if there was a million dollar in that account, the husband or they together had kids. Then (at least for some nationalities) the kids will inherit some of that money. Like: 1 million assets for husband and wife together, husband dies, his half (0.5 million) will be inherited by his wife and his children - not just his wife!

Obviously there might be lots of other details, but you get the idea. 

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16 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Services we provide in Thailand

Consular staff can provide the following services only:

Before applying for one of our services contact the relevant Thai authority to find out what you need. This could be the local district office (amphur/amphoe), immigration office, ministries or another authority in Thailand, the UK or a third country.

Check that the document(s) we are able to provide will be accepted by the relevant authority and make sure you select the most appropriate service.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#services-we-provide-in-thailand

 

No mention of authenticating UK-issued death certificates.

 

 

There is a legal procedure to follow to have any foreign document accepted as legitimate by Thai authorities.

As with marriage to a Thai, the BE can attest an affidavit to marry, but if widowed/divorce you must produce said document.
This is because the BE have access to Public records in the UK. (Birth, Death, Divorce) and can authenticate those documents as being genuine.

 

Alternatively, they may tell you that the UK death certificate should be first authenticated by the Home Office in Milton Keynes, then legalised by the Thai Embassy in London. This is then translated into Thai and legalised by Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Without that vignette being attached by the MFA, the document could be a forgery.

 

I suspect the bank are making enquiries through the British Embassy to authenticate the Death certificate is genuine - could take months.
I'd advise you contact the BE yourself.

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3 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

I suspect the bank are making enquiries through the British Embassy to authenticate the Death certificate is genuine - could take months.
I'd advise you contact the BE yourself.

No reason for the Embassy to discuss it with him as a third party.

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