B800k savings? - get your tax refund

[quake]

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Thailand can have that bit of bank tax from me.

Don't want Thailand poking around my business.

But maybe one day, we will all have to have there tax code,  to do anything here. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! World wide, Big brother and all that. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by quake

[nigelforbes]

8 hours ago, 10years said:

I wondered about the tax ID number. If a depositor doesn't have a tax number, how does the bank file his withheld tax? And if he gets a new number, how is his past withheld taxes going to connect with that new number?

 

I have filed many times for a tax refund and have never been asked anything. 

Times are/have changed, ten years ago this was not even on the radar, today, increasing the tax net is the Revenue's highest priority and resident foreigners are a prime target. 

[CMBob]

18 hours ago, Mickeymaus said:

Get a Thai Tax ID and give it to your banks. Then you will not have this problem. 

I've read a few posts over the last couple of years that one can obtain a Thai Tax ID, give that info and a request to stop withholding to the bank, and they'll stop the 15% withholding.  That may be true for some people in some locations but hasn't worked for me here in Chiangmai at either Siam Commercial Bank or Bangkok Bank (I've tried it at both banks....... they affirmatively respond that they don't know what I'm talking about and the withholding continues).

[Mickeymaus]

51 minutes ago, CMBob said:

I've read a few posts over the last couple of years that one can obtain a Thai Tax ID, give that info and a request to stop withholding to the bank, and they'll stop the 15% withholding.  That may be true for some people in some locations but hasn't worked for me here in Chiangmai at either Siam Commercial Bank or Bangkok Bank (I've tried it at both banks....... they affirmatively respond that they don't know what I'm talking about and the withholding continues).

Then talk to the manager. And if that doesn't work, to the headquarter. They have to do it. If the employee does not know it he should admit it and not give you a false information. Such people drive me crazy. They can cause a lot of damage.

[gamb00ler]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:59 PM, 10years said:

The Thai government now requires personal income tax to be automatically withheld from all interest income.

Has the law changed since Dec. 31 when my bank gave me table scraps in interest without any withholding?  I had given them my Thai tax ID when I opened the account in '21 and have never had tax withheld.

[keithsimmonds]

1 hour ago, Mickeymaus said:

Then talk to the manager. And if that doesn't work, to the headquarter. They have to do it. If the employee does not know it he should admit it and not give you a false information. Such people drive me crazy. They can cause a lot of damage.

Too right... You have to stand your ground,and get them to phone there "Head Office" as most in Branch staff have no clue how to do it... Fair enough I have no problem with them not knowing.... Just don't fob me off with    "Can Not"

[keithsimmonds]

15 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

 

Opening a new account will likely need a residence certificate, so another trip to the big city to visit immigration, and I'd still be wasting a whole day getting two bank letters and two statements for next extension.  All this so I can get a little more interest, and claim a tax refund?  I probably won't bother.  The extra interest earned and the tax refund isn't worth the trouble.

 

 

You just need to show the transfer from one account to another. ... No need for 2 letter's and statements.

In five years time you could have earnt at least 60000baht in interest... Maybe more who knows. Well worth one day of running around jumping hurdles imo...... "Up to You"

[quake]

15 minutes ago, keithsimmonds said:

Too right... You have to stand your ground,and get them to phone there "Head Office" as most in Branch staff have no clue how to do it... Fair enough I have no problem with them not knowing.... Just don't fob me off with    "Can Not"

That just reminds me of site work,  and the Long Wait joke, played on the new lads. 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by quake

[foreverlomsak]

21 hours ago, Mickeymaus said:

But even some European banks insisted that I give them my Thai Tax ID.

Not only is my UK bank is asking for my Thai Tax ID, they are also asking for a Tax Residency Certificate. Approaching the Thai Revenue Department for this info may open me up for double taxation, i.e. taxed on income in the UK (pensions), and then taxed again by Thailand as I bring UK income into the country. The potential tax liability from UK income being brought into Thailand more than negates the Tax Withholding by the Thai banks.

The following is a direct copy from the Thai Revenue Personal Income Tax   www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

 

 

[Mickeymaus]

5 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Not only is my UK bank is asking for my Thai Tax ID, they are also asking for a Tax Residency Certificate. Approaching the Thai Revenue Department for this info may open me up for double taxation, i.e. taxed on income in the UK (pensions), and then taxed again by Thailand as I bring UK income into the country. The potential tax liability from UK income being brought into Thailand more than negates the Tax Withholding by the Thai banks.

The following is a direct copy from the Thai Revenue Personal Income Tax   www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

 

 "A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand." 

 

There is something important missing - brought into Thailand IN THE SAME YEAR WHEN YOU EARNED IT.  If you transfer money from a savings account then you don't have to pay taxes. So better transfer a pension to an account at home and not directly to Thailand if you want to avoid any taxation problems here. 

[foreverlomsak]

5 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said:

 So better transfer a pension to an account at home and not directly to Thailand if you want to avoid any taxation problems here. 

That's precisely what I do.

As far as "IN THE SAME YEAR WHEN YOU EARNED IT", where in the rules is it?

Can you provide a link as I cannot find it anywhere.

[Mickeymaus]

7 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

That's precisely what I do.

As far as "IN THE SAME YEAR WHEN YOU EARNED IT", where in the rules is it?

Can you provide a link as I cannot find it anywhere.

Here is one source. The main thing is under 

 

"Residence status for tax purposes 

Individuals are considered resident if they reside in Thailand for a period or periods totaling 180 days or more during a calendar year. Income earned overseas by Thai residents is also subject to PIT if it is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned."

 

 

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/thailand/tax-in-thailand/

[watchcat]

5 hours ago, CMBob said:

I've read a few posts over the last couple of years that one can obtain a Thai Tax ID, give that info and a request to stop withholding to the bank, and they'll stop the 15% withholding.  That may be true for some people in some locations but hasn't worked for me here in Chiangmai at either Siam Commercial Bank or Bangkok Bank (I've tried it at both banks....... they affirmatively respond that they don't know what I'm talking about and the withholding continues).

It works for me, but not on a Fixed Account.

[10years]

If you get the tax office to complete your return, remember to inform the preparer that you want a copy. You will be directed to another window. They will inform you how much the copy will cost and confirm if you still want it.

 

While you're at it, ask the preparer when you can expect to receive the refund checks by mail.

 

Once you receive the checks, you can deposit them in your savings account at any major local bank.

[nigelforbes]

3 hours ago, 10years said:

If you get the tax office to complete your return, remember to inform the preparer that you want a copy. You will be directed to another window. They will inform you how much the copy will cost and confirm if you still want it.

 

While you're at it, ask the preparer when you can expect to receive the refund checks by mail.

 

Once you receive the checks, you can deposit them in your savings account at any major local bank.

For the past three years, the tax refund has been automatically deposited at Krungsri Bank. If you take in your ID they will issue you with an ATM card to withdraw the refund from an ATM,. I haven't had a cheque from the Thai Revenue in years.

[jayboy]

On 3/22/2023 at 9:00 AM, nigelforbes said:

increasing the tax net is the Revenue's highest priority and resident foreigners are a prime target. 

Increasing tax receipts is every Revenue Department's priority in every country.However there is little or no no evidence for the contention that resident foreign pensioners are a prime target.I have checked this with two accountancy firms in Bangkok.They advise there while there is no evidence resident foreign pensioners are a prime target, naturally resident foreigners with income or investments in generated in Thailand must be careful to pay tax in accordance with local regulations.

 

 

There may be some pensioners caught up in the Thai income tax system, perhaps because they incautiously claimed back tax imposed on interest without fully considering the implications. Odd really because the amounts involved are so small - in most cases scarcely worth bothering about.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by jayboy

[nigelforbes]

45 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Increasing tax receipts is every Revenue Department's priority in every country.However there is little or no no evidence for the contention that resident foreign pensioners are a prime target.I have checked this with two accountancy firms in Bangkok.They advise there while there is no evidence resident foreign pensioners are a prime target, naturally resident foreigners with income or investments in generated in Thailand must be careful to pay tax in accordance with local regulations.

 

 

There may be some pensioners caught up in the Thai income tax system, perhaps because they incautiously claimed back tax imposed on interest without fully considering the implications. Odd really because the amounts involved are so small - in most cases scarcely worth bothering about.

 

 

 

 

The difference with the Thai Revenue tax net is that it is so small, less than 5% of the population pay tax via a tax return. Many locals who run small businesses or who are self employed are careful to not issues receipts and cash in hand work is very common. Foreigners however are reliant on the banking system to receive funds from overseas which makes them a prime target that is easily traceable. With all due respect to your Bangkok contacts they are wrong on this point. Banking regulations have been tightened as a result of new AMLO rules plus the taxation of all interest at source means it is now easier than ever to trace tax liability. I have had this discussion with the manager in charge of my tax region who tells me that foreigner income is a soft target, hence the questionnaires regarding pensions and income in many tax offices when foreigners try to reclaim tax on interest.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

The difference with the Thai Revenue tax net is that it is so small, less than 5% of the population pay tax via a tax return. Many locals who run small businesses or who are self employed are careful to not issues receipts and cash in hand work is very common. Foreigners however are reliant on the banking system to receive funds from overseas which makes them a prime target that is easily traceable. With all due respect to your Bangkok contacts they are wrong on this point. Banking regulations have been tightened as a result of new AMLO rules plus the taxation of all interest at source means it is now easier than ever to trace tax liability. I have had this discussion with the manager in charge of my tax region who tells me that foreigner income is a soft target, hence the questionnaires regarding pensions and income in many tax offices when foreigners try to reclaim tax on interest.

Don't buy any of this. Thailand Tax authorities will concentrate on the vast army of tax evading Thais and not a bunch of relatively low income foreign pensioners. Contrary to what you say it's not a simple matter at all to trace tax liability of foreign pensioners, and equally to the point, the effort involved and prospect of modest additional receipts make it not at all cost effective.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by jayboy

[JimmyJ]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:13 PM, NoDisplayName said:

I believe if you file late, you will be charged a late fee of 200 baht for each late return, so checks two years should have 200 baht deducted.

"I believe if you file late...".

 

What is the filing deadline?

[quake]

24 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Don't buy any of this. Thailand Tax authorities will concentrate on the vast army of tax evading Thais and not a bunch of relatively low income foreign pensioners. Contrary to what you say it's not a simple matter at all to trace tax liability of foreign pensioners, and equally to the point, the effort involved and prospect of modest additional receipts make it not at all cost effective.

 

Just remember this.

The Authorities in Thailand hold all the cards,  when it come to us expats.  

 

 

[nigelforbes]

27 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Don't buy any of this. Thailand Tax authorities will concentrate on the vast army of tax evading Thais and not a bunch of relatively low income foreign pensioners. Contrary to what you say it's not a simple matter at all to trace tax liability of foreign pensioners, and equally to the point, the effort involved and prospect of modest additional receipts make it not at all cost effective.

 

Believe what you wish, I'm sure you'll see first hand proof of what I have said, before long.

 

Now that the banks with hold tax on all interest, everyone has a choice, either file a tax return and reclaim the tax or forgo the tax. But if you chose to reclaim the tax you have to file a tax return and in doing so you must declare all your income, otherwise you have filed a false return which is punishable. Now the stakes are higher, do you file the return and forget to mention that pension and investment income, tell me, do you feel lucky. Anyway, I file a return and I declare my pension income and some years I pay tax in Thailand so for me this is not an issue, not so for many others however, especially as interest rates rise.

 

[jayboy]

29 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Believe what you wish, I'm sure you'll see first hand proof of what I have said, before long.

 

Now that the banks with hold tax on all interest, everyone has a choice, either file a tax return and reclaim the tax or forgo the tax. But if you chose to reclaim the tax you have to file a tax return and in doing so you must declare all your income, otherwise you have filed a false return which is punishable. Now the stakes are higher, do you file the return and forget to mention that pension and investment income, tell me, do you feel lucky. Anyway, I file a return and I declare my pension income and some years I pay tax in Thailand so for me this is not an issue, not so for many others however, especially as interest rates rise.

 

Easy.Don't file a Thai tax return (unless there is a compelling requirement to do so) especially since in the vast majority of cases the tax to be reclaimed is chicken feed. Yes interests rates are rising but they are still low in Thailand.

 

IF one files a return then one must state all income that is eligible.Obviously pension and investment income must be included. I file a UK tax return and declare all relevant income.

 

But for the run of the mill expat pensioner one would be well advised to avoid submitting a tax return.IF one has Thai investment income that's a different matter and as to the UK angle one would need to take professional advice.

 

 

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Easy.Don't file a Thai tax return (unless there is a compelling requirement to do so) especially since in the vast majority of cases the tax to be reclaimed is chicken feed. Yes interests rates are rising but they are still low in Thailand.

 

IF one files a return then one must state all income that is eligible.Obviously pension and investment income must be included. I file a UK tax return and declare all relevant income.

 

But for the run of the mill expat pensioner one would be well advised to avoid submitting a tax return.IF one has Thai investment income that's a different matter and as to the UK angle one would need to take professional advice.

 

 

Yup, that will work.

 

But you can see where this is headed in the future. I have two pensions paid directly into my Thai bank, Bahtnet sees them and so does Bangkok Bank, Bangkok Bank even has a copy of the signed direct deposit form for the US pension. Even if I didn't declare the income, it's just a matter of time before the Revenue asks questions. They know the source and they know the amounts and the math is simple enough, it would be impossible for me to deny. 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

"I believe if you file late...".

 

What is the filing deadline?

Personal income tax return filing is due March 31st.

 

tax info here:   https://rd.go.th/english/6045.html

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

Yup, that will work.

 

But you can see where this is headed in the future. I have two pensions paid directly into my Thai bank, Bahtnet sees them and so does Bangkok Bank, Bangkok Bank even has a copy of the signed direct deposit form for the US pension. Even if I didn't declare the income, it's just a matter of time before the Revenue asks questions. They know the source and they know the amounts and the math is simple enough, it would be impossible for me to deny. 

Can you not get your pensions paid into accounts at UK or US banks.

[nigelforbes]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

Can you not get your pensions paid into accounts at UK or US banks.

Yes I could, but doing things the current way makes my life so much easier and the tax burden is very small.

[gamb00ler]

3 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Now that the banks with hold tax on all interest

As of last December neither I or my Thai wife was subject to tax withholding from SCB, Kasikorn, LH Bank or Bangkok bank savings accounts.  I did have withholding on a small fixed deposit account.  Neither of us exceeded the 20K ฿ limit that is exempted from taxation.

Edited March 23, 2023 by gamb00ler

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

As of last December neither I or my Thai wife was subject to tax withholding from SCB, Kasikorn, LH Bank or Bangkok bank savings accounts.  I did have withholding on a small fixed deposit account.

Well good for you, most of the rest of us are! And even after having the situation "corrected" at UOB last year, this year the bank has taxed all our interest from the start of the year, as has BBL....."there are no exceptions", they say.

[gamb00ler]

9 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Well good for you, most of the rest of us are! And even after having the situation "corrected" at UOB last year, this year the bank has taxed all our interest from the start of the year, as has BBL....."there are no exceptions", they say.

I merely followed the advice offered many times on this forum.  I got my Thai tax ID and politely persisted with the branch staff that withholding can be stopped.  If they didn't know how, I asked them to call their head office or telephone help line.

Edited March 23, 2023 by gamb00ler

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, gamb00ler said:

I merely followed the advice offered many times on this forum.  I got my Thai tax ID and politely persisted with the branch staff that withholding can be stopped.  If they didn't know how, I asked them to call their head office or telephone help line.

As did I last year, but this is now this year and things have reverted again, unchangeable or so I am told. This will doubtless turn out to be yet another typical Thailand story of where different people at different banks experience different scenarios on different days, god forbid there should ever be any uniformity on anything here.