Agoda Booking Scam

[Toby1947]

This BS doesn't wash with me. Tell the missus the truth you booked a room with a bar girl and the missus has found the debit on a statement. ????????????????

[windas]

Hi friends.

I've been using Agoda this year, their prices have been less than most.

Regarding using credit cards, I use the UK cards and I got scammed with an online travel agent for 5Grand that failed to supply airline tickets. I used section 75 of UK law and got refunded, albeit 9 months later. Unlikely to have a refund on a debit card. CC much safer and don't allow any site to store the card.

Cheers Johnny

[eisfeld]

39 minutes ago, windas said:

Unlikely to have a refund on a debit card. CC much safer and don't allow any site to store the card.

That is simply not true. Sites can store credit cards just as they can debit cards. Most sites don't even know what type of card it is because you can't tell by the number. You offered no reasoning for why you think getting a refund on a debit card would be any less likely.

 

A lot of people writing in this thread seem to have no idea how the card processing systems work but throw around claims.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

That is simply not true. Sites can store credit cards just as they can debit cards. Most sites don't even know what type of card it is because you can't tell by the number. You offered no reasoning for why you think getting a refund on a debit card would be any less likely.

 

A lot of people writing in this thread seem to have no idea how the card processing systems work but throw around claims.

The sites can tell what kind of card it is by the number. 

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

The sites can tell what kind of card it is by the number. 

Just by the number you can't reliably do so, no. Doubly so because these sites give you the option to save it before you even submit the form.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Just by the number you can't reliably do so, no. Doubly so because these sites give you the option to save it before you even submit the form.

I did not say I could, I said the sites can. If I enter the card number, the sites often auto-fill the type. 

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I did not say I could, I said the sites can. If I enter the card number, the sites often auto-fill the type. 

You can determine the card network (visa, mastercard) etc and that's what I see most sites auto-fill. Haven't noticed any that shows if it's debit or credit and anyways they might attempt a best guess via some heuristics but it wont be reliable. And the point was the claim that sites can't store credit card information compared to debit which isn't the case.

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I did not say I could, I said the sites can. If I enter the card number, the sites often auto-fill the type. 

It could be that the card number and other details are stored om your computer , rather than on the other persons computer ? and you have "auto fill" ticked on your puter 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

You can determine the card network (visa, mastercard) etc and that's what I see most sites auto-fill. Haven't noticed any that shows if it's debit or credit and anyways they might attempt a best guess via some heuristics but it wont be reliable. And the point was the claim that sites can't store credit card information compared to debit which isn't the case.

Surly the sites can differentiate between credit and debit, even I can tell that, the number formats are different. 

 

But I agree whether or not the site stores the data I don't think credit or debit matters. 

 

I believe (but do not know) that at least in the US, by law, they need your permission to store the card number. Of course, the law only matters to reputable sites.  

 

I no longer see any worthwhile savings with Agoda and the like, I generally just book with the hotel. 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It could be that the card number and other details are stored om your computer , rather than on the other persons computer ? and you have "auto fill" ticked on your puter 

No, the computer will offer-up anything it has stored as soon as you're in the field. 

[eisfeld]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Surly the sites can differentiate between credit and debit, even I can tell that, the number formats are different. 

What is the difference in number format?

[MrJ2U]

6 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Of course not, why would Agoda care what kind of card you paid with to decide if they should refund you or not?

Credit Cards are safer to use than a debit card.  You have better fraud protection. 

 

"paying with credit or cash is a much better choice. In those instances, using your debit card could result in losing money or increasing your risk of fraud."

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/when-you-should-not-use-debit-card-2018-3#:~:text=However%2C in some situations paying,never use a debit card.

 

 

 

However some people have no choice, like yourself, most likely a person with bad credit. 

[MrJ2U]

6 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Of course not, why would Agoda care what kind of card you paid with to decide if they should refund you or not?

 

Unfortunately credit cards increase the prices for everyone. Where do you think the cashback/points come from? The card networks charge a fee to the merchant who in turn has to increase the prices. And because the merchant either can't differentiate between debit and credit card or doesn't want to put different prices on different payment methods he just increases the average selling price. These credit card processing fees can be as high as 3-10%. I know because I've worked on the merchant side.

Not every merchant passes on a fee and it would be stupid to do so.  

 

Sounds like a person without credit talking baloney. 

[eisfeld]

21 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Credit Cards are safer to use than a debit card.  You have better fraud protection. 

 

"paying with credit or cash is a much better choice. In those instances, using your debit card could result in losing money or increasing your risk of fraud."

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/when-you-should-not-use-debit-card-2018-3#:~:text=However%2C in some situations paying,never use a debit card.

 

 

 

However some people have no choice, like yourself, most likely a person with bad credit. 

You might have better fraud protection or you might not. Depends on the card terms. I've done chargebacks through my bank two weeks after the fraudulent transaction and got the full amount refunded. What the article talks about is the minimum that is set by law in the US. That you result to a suggestion I had a bad credit rating even though you know jack sh*t about my finances shows you're talking out of your behind. Sorry to state it so bluntly.

 

18 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Not every merchant passes on a fee and it would be stupid to do so.  

 

Sounds like a person without credit talking baloney. 

Again, sorry but you are the one talking baloney. Of course they have to factor in their cost of goods sold. Do you think the owner of a business just takes it out of his pocket? Incredibly naive. That's like thinking if something says free shipping that the company just pays for it and that's that. No, it's factored into the price. Same as taxes, production costs, marking expenses etc. pp.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by eisfeld

[MrJ2U]

12 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

You might have better fraud protection or you might not. Depends on the card terms. I've done chargebacks through my bank two weeks after the fraudulent transaction and got the full amount refunded. What the article talks about is the minimum that is set by law in the US. That you result to a suggestion I had a bad credit rating even though you know jack sh*t about my finances shows you're talking out of your behind. Sorry to state it so bluntly.

 

Again, sorry but you are the one talking baloney. Of course they have to factor in their cost of goods sold. Do you think the owner of a business just takes it out of his pocket? Incredibly naive. That's like thinking if something says free shipping that the company just pays for it and that's that. No, it's factored into the price. Same as taxes, production costs, marking expenses etc. pp.

 

I don't think you understand.  

 

  Companies are still making a profits.   More so with different payment options including credit cards, PayPal,Bitcoin, etc.

 

Perhaps just Google the difference between using a Credit Card and a Debit Card on online purchases. 

 

You'll be enlightened and Perhaps learn something. 

 

 

 

 

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

no longer see any worthwhile savings with Agoda and the like, I generally just book with the hotel. 

Always a better idea. 

 

 Much easier to deal with if any problems arise.   That said I've had some good success with Agoda in a pinch. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by MrJ2U

[JimmyJ]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I also really don't like this practive but you can change that via a setting on the page.

What setting?

Seen this mentioned in posts but couldn't find it.

[MrJ2U]

16 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Debit cards are a bit safer in terms of fraud

No, that's not true. 

 

"Why Are Debit Card Chargebacks More Difficult for Cardholders? Debit cards are linked directly to a bank account, rather than a loan from a credit provider. That means that there are different laws and fewer fraud prevention measures in place."

 

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/know-your-chargeback-dispute-types-debit-card-vs.-credit-card#:~:text=FAQ-,Why Are Debit Card Chargebacks More Difficult for Cardholders%3F,fraud prevention measures in place.

[Woof999]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Of course not, why would Agoda care what kind of card you paid with to decide if they should refund you or not?

The main reason is that Agoda get paid instantly, directly from the bank account when a debit card is used. For a credit card, they are paid by the credit card company at some point in the future (sometimes weeks, perhaps days, that I'm no longer 100% sure about). Credit card companies (in my experience at least) tend to very much side with the card holder in any cases of fraud. They are the judge, jury and executioner. Not so easy with a debit card where funds have already left your account and already arrived into the vendors account.

 

Also, although you can't go overdrawn (you can still eat into an overdraft facility) with a debit card, it's "real" money that has come directly out of your account. With a credit card, although in the end it is very much real money, it is coming out of your available credit, ie the money that the CC company is willing to lend you. You don't instantly lose real funds from what is likely your main bank account, funds that you might have needed to pay your mortgage the next day.

 

I also believe that vendors can tell the difference between a debit and credit card just by the number. I'm not 100% sure how, but online sites that I've used in the past have applied different payment fees depending on whether a debit (less) or credit (more) card was used.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

I don't think you understand.  

 

  Companies are still making a profits.   More so with different payment options including credit cards, PayPal,Bitcoin, etc.

 

Perhaps just Google the difference between using a Credit Card and a Debit Card on online purchases. 

 

You'll be enlightened and Perhaps learn something. 

You are confusing who is the one that doesn't understand. I've worked on payment system integrations. I don't have to google how they work. You are the one googling and quoting sites without having the full picture ????

 

Of course they are making profits because the fees for collecting payments are priced in. Really not a difficult concept.

 

37 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

The main reason is that Agoda get paid instantly, directly from the bank account when a debit card is used. For a credit card, they are paid by the credit card company at some point in the future (sometimes weeks, perhaps days, that I'm no longer 100% sure about). Credit card companies (in my experience at least) tend to very much side with the card holder in any cases of fraud. They are the judge, jury and executioner. Not so easy with a debit card where funds have already left your account and already arrived into the vendors account.

In both the case of a credit card and a debit card the merchant gets paid by the payment provider with a delay in virtually all cases but usually in the order of days. Many times there is a reserve - rolling or not - put in place to cover the possibility of chargebacks. A chargeback can come sometimes months after the transaction and obviously the payment provider is not keeping the funds until that time has passed.

 

What you are thinking about is the payer side of things. With a credit card the funds are not debited to you instantly but whenever you cover your debt to the card issuer. Even if you pay back your credit card debt 3 months later the merchant received the funds already a long time ago. That's the whole idea of credit: someone gets money faster than the payer spends.

Edited March 29, 2023 by eisfeld

[eisfeld]

33 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

What setting?

Seen this mentioned in posts but couldn't find it.

Click on the Baht (or whatever currency) icon at the top. Then choose "Total price per night".

[Kalasin Jo]

15 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Vietjetair charged me for tickets and the flight was cancelled... they wanted to issue a voucher instead of a refund... I told them no and messaged my card company... the refund was issued... have never heard of a card company not getting a refund issued.

 

On a side note... has anyone ever really gotten Agoda cash back... I always apply for it but have never received one penny.

Waiting on a very small cashback right now. According to my Agoda account that is

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies reported and removed.  Keep it civil and on topic or face a suspension.  

 

[spongeworthy]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

What is the difference in number format?

Only the banks know, but there is a format used after the BIN as there are services available to merchants which offer detection of a cards type and class of card via an API. This can detect not only credit, debit, and gift/prepaid, but also differentiate between the different card products offered by banks.

[Skipalongcassidy]

17 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Of course not, why would Agoda care what kind of card you paid with to decide if they should refund you or not?

 

Unfortunately credit cards increase the prices for everyone. Where do you think the cashback/points come from? The card networks charge a fee to the merchant who in turn has to increase the prices. And because the merchant either can't differentiate between debit and credit card or doesn't want to put different prices on different payment methods he just increases the average selling price. These credit card processing fees can be as high as 3-10%. I know because I've worked on the merchant side.

No longer true for most transactions by credit or debit card users... especially here in Thailand.  The card user is charged the service fee on top of the amount... usually 3% 

[The Fugitive]

It would be interesting to hear the outcome from the OP (Dan747). If the hack was of his Agoda account only and the booking was the initial (trial) transaction to verify current validity of the stored card, then cancelling his card and requesting a charge back should be the end of his problems.    

[patman30]

Have you asked Agoda who the guest is for the booking?

 

 

20 hours ago, dddave said:

I will plead guilty to having my Debit Card details stored on a number of sites: Lazada, Booking.com and a few more.  I assumed these sites were secure.

So, not a good idea?  Enter details with each sale?

How does one clean stored card details out of the PC?  (Windows 10, Chrome)

The sites usually are secure and use industry standard encryption AES256
the problem usually always lies with poor passwords that are brute forced
most passwords used today can be brute forced in minutes using GPU farms
computer processing is only going to get faster
for important stuff i already use over 40 character passwords
i do not write down passwords or use password managers

 

These times in this table can be drastically reduced with bigger GPU farms.

Edited March 30, 2023 by patman30

[dddave]

50 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Have you asked Agoda who the guest is for the booking?

 

 

The sites usually are secure and use industry standard encryption AES256
the problem usually always lies with poor passwords that are brute forced
most passwords used today can be brute forced in minutes using GPU farms
computer processing is only going to get faster
for important stuff i already use over 40 character passwords
i do not write down passwords or use password managers

 

These times in this table can be drastically reduced with bigger GPU farms.

Eye-opening chart!  Thanks for posting it.

[patman30]

7 minutes ago, dddave said:

Eye-opening chart!  Thanks for posting it.

TBH That chart is nowhere near as scary as it should be

if you want to test a password
use it to lock a zip file
then get lostmypass.com or similar to bruteforce it
then consider there will be much bigger GPU farms than what you just used for testing

[Yellowtail]

22 hours ago, eisfeld said:

What is the difference in number format?

I lied, but the sites must be able to tell as they're billed differently, yes?