Dealer refuses to acknowledge new car defect

[DJ54]

OP not knowing options on your car…  my car was turning off when I stopped… the reason I had switched on the button to shutdown at stops to save fuel? Or? Turned it off never happened again..

[ujayujay]

I guess, the only problem is: Your Car has the start/stop function on! Normally this you can switch off.....ask your dealer????????????

[DJ54]

See pics

[Woof999]

4 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Really?

He has not even had the problem repeat a second time so what does he have to show that there is any problem?

Exactly. Pressing the nuclear button on a single reported instance.

 

I know dealers here can be a right royal PITA, but from what has been stated so far, if 100% true, you're not doing yourself any favours.

[Brick Top]

It does sound like the idle stop system , it takes a bit of getting used to , I had mine disconnected as I just couldn't get used to the engine cutting out in traffic after 2 seconds

[Moonlover]

I've only driven one car recently that had the idle/stop function, but if I recall correctly you put your foot on the brake and stop the car and then keep your foot on the brake until you're ready to move again. If you do anything else you will break the idle/stop sequence and have to do a full restart.

 

Are you absolutely sure that you did this correctly @Alain Folly? It fooled me a few times until I got used to it.

[transam]

6 hours ago, Road Warrior said:

i thought auto gear box CANT STALL ????????

An engine can cut out on an auto, which is nothing to do with the trans..

[CharlieKo]

18 hours ago, Alain Folly said:

Of course one needs to get used to each new manual transmission vehicle.

 

A reasonable question, though is can a properly working automatic transmission car stall?

 

Let's google that together

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=automatic+transmission+stall

 

Answer: Seemingly not without some problem.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.  (BTW I'd love to be wrong)

So how many times has it happened? 

[brianthainess]

6 hours ago, Road Warrior said:

i thought auto gear box CANT STALL ????????

But the engine can. 

[KhaoYai]

According to the OP this 'fault' only happened once and the car has been fine since. I understand that he wants answers but the chances are that he's not going to get them.

 

The only chance he has is that the event is recorded on the car's ECU and the dealer's diagnostic software is capable of reading that.  In other countries having such software is mandatory but we are talking Thailand here.

 

In the UK a dealer, faced with a customer who is adamant that he wants the fault tracing might interrogate the ECU to try and try to locate the fault.  I say might because people are busy and the fault is no longer there.  Thai attitudes are somewhat different and the likelihood is that they just can't understand why someone wants them to look for a fault that's no longer occurring.

 

From the description the OP gives, I don't think the event will have been recorded on the ECU so any investigation is just stabbing in the dark. For a fault to be recorded, it has to either, create an immediate change in certain electrical values or, if its not directly recordable, create the conditions where it can be picked up by a sensor.  The latter is unlikely to happen unless the event continued for several seconds.

 

The 'fault' may come back in which case it may be possible to trace it but in all likelihood, I think the OP is just going to have to forget this, put it down to 'one of those things' and stop worrying.

Edited April 3, 2023 by KhaoYai

[transam]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

According to the OP this 'fault' only happened once and the car has been fine since. I understand that he wants answers but the chances are that he's not going to get them.

 

The only chance he has is that the event is recorded on the car's ECU and the dealer's diagnostic software is capable of reading that.  In other countries having such software is mandatory but we are talking Thailand here.

 

In the UK a dealer, faced with a customer who is adamant that he wants the fault tracing might interrogate the ECU to try and try to locate the fault.  I say might because people are busy and the fault is no longer there.  Thai attitudes are somewhat different and the likelihood is that they just can't understand why someone wants them to look for a fault that's no longer occurring.

 

From the description the OP gives, I don't think the event will have been recorded on the ECU so any investigation is just stabbing in the dark. For a fault to be recorded, it has to either, create an immediate change in certain electrical values or, if its not directly recordable, create the conditions where it can be picked up by a sensor.  The latter is unlikely to happen unless the event continued for several seconds.

 

The 'fault' may come back in which case it should be possible to trace it but in all likelihood, I think the OP is just going to have to forget this and put it down to 'one of those things' and stop worrying.

But it's a new car, it will always be in the back of your head for trouble down the line...????

[Rimmer]

A racist slur and a reply have been removed

[Yellowtail]

I would not worry if it only happened once. You have a three-year warranty, yes? In any event, do you think they are going to give you a new car? If something is wrong with it, you will know soon enough. 

 

I hate the idle-stop-start in my Fortuner, and you have to turn off every time you start the car. 

 

If you stop and hold your foot on brake, the engine shuts off. If you push the start button while you are stopped, the engine shuts off completely and you have to put it park to restart.  Are you SURE you did not push the start button when the idle-stop-start shut the engine off? 

[Alain Folly]

Okay I really appreciate the feedback and different perspectives.  

 

I've already reduced my worry to near zero, in part b/c experts here have convinced me this could easily stay a one-time occurrence, but also b/c 10x more milage has seen no recurring event.  This happen with the odometer at < 20 km.  But people might benefit from a bit more detail:

 

First, I actually like the idle/stop feature and have known about it for years.  Watching my {uber, grab, bolt} drivers I noticed the behavior and ask if the vehicles were hybrid (because I noticed a similar thing on Priuses, the Toyota hybrid).  Nope, petrol only, so I looked it up and thought "good idea".  Fuel efficient.

 

The stalling event happened during a sudden and forceful stop, going down hill on a gravel surface.  As I pulled out of a parking lot onto a main road, the lane was clear until, at the last minute, it wasn't.  (A car passing on the left at high speed entered the leftmost lane where I was heading.)   Due to the forward and downward momentum against the gravel surface, the wheels locked and the car stalled with engine light.  Full restart necessary.

 

Now while the suddeness of the stop was at most a 1-sigma everyday stop, I suspect the combination of everything else produced a 2 or 3-sigma back "pressure".  I'm spitballing here but there's a torque equivalent of impact force, which would be very high under these conditions, right?   

I now consider it highly plausible the engine was designed to stall under such conditions.  (A bit like fighting with the emergency brake, I'd want the car to stall, I think.)

 

Anyway thanks all!  

 

Mods: please move to "cars for sale" 
????

[Yellowtail]

I have to say, the petrol rentals I have driven in the US with idle-stop have been fine, with the diesel Fortuner it's sh*t.

[connda]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:31 PM, Alain Folly said:

Thoughts?

Find the address for the corporate offices of the <insert Japanese carmaker>.
Look up the top executives in the company CEO, Customer Relations, etc.
Write Letters to the top executives outlining your complaint.  They will more than likely refer it to the Thai corporate offices, but keep the address of the executive who responds to you in Japan as you should be able to follow-up with that individual if you don't get results in Thailand.

I've done this before with a different product and got results.

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Find the address for the corporate offices of the <insert Japanese carmaker>.
Look up the top executives in the company CEO, Customer Relations, etc.
Write Letters to the top executives outlining your complaint.  They will more than likely refer it to the Thai corporate offices, but keep the address of the executive who responds to you in Japan as you should be able to follow-up with that individual if you don't get results in Thailand.

From what we know in this thread, a car stalled once. No repeat of the stall and no other issues, but the OP should write letters to senior management of the parent company in Japan to demand action?

 

Wow.

[KhaoYai]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I would not worry if it only happened once. You have a three-year warranty, yes? In any event, do you think they are going to give you a new car? If something is wrong with it, you will know soon enough. 

 

I hate the idle-stop-start in my Fortuner, and you have to turn off every time you start the car. 

 

If you stop and hold your foot on brake, the engine shuts off. If you push the start button while you are stopped, the engine shuts off completely and you have to put it park to restart.  Are you SURE you did not push the start button when the idle-stop-start shut the engine off? 

I have no knowledge of Fortuners but with most cars, the stop/start system can be turned off. With some, this can be done by the owner but some can only be done via software that can access the ECU through the diagnostics port.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I have no knowledge of Fortuners but with most cars, the stop/start system can be turned off. With some, this can be done by the owner but some can only be done via software that can access the ECU through the diagnostics port.

I can turn it off every time I start the car, but not permanently. 

 

I assume it can be turned off indefinitely, but I could not figure out how, and the dealers I asked could, or at least would not.  

 

It's out of warranty now so I might try again.

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I can turn it off every time I start the car, but not permanently. 

 

I assume it can be turned off indefinitely, but I could not figure out how, and the dealers I asked could, or at least would not.  

 

It's out of warranty now so I might try again.

If there's nothing in the manual that tells you how to turn it off, its probably only possible through the ECU.  If you go down that route, you may have to be prepared to delete it completely - some systems allow for the switching of certain features, some only allow deleting them.

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

If there's nothing in the manual that tells you how to turn it off, its probably only possible through the ECU.  If you go down that route, you may have to be prepared to delete it completely - some systems allow for the switching of certain features, some only allow deleting them.

I've gotten used to just turning it off each time I start it. 

 

This looks interesting...

ปลั๊กปิดระบบ Auto Start Stop ใน New Fortuner & REVO 2016-2019 (ยกเว้น MC2020) เป็นปลั๊กตรงรุ่น toyota revo ไม่ตัดต่อสายไฟ ประกันไม่ขาด พร้อมส่ง มั่นใจ rmautoshop rm auto shop | Lazada.co.th

[KhaoYai]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

This looks interesting...

ปลั๊กปิดระบบ Auto Start Stop ใน New Fortuner & REVO 2016-2019 (ยกเว้น MC2020) เป็นปลั๊กตรงรุ่น toyota revo ไม่ตัดต่อสายไฟ ประกันไม่ขาด พร้อมส่ง มั่นใจ rmautoshop rm auto shop | Lazada.co.t

It might be, but I can't read Thai ????.

 

Its probably a 'defeat' tool that stops the start/stop system from kicking in.  Personally, I wouldn't want to fit anything that could possibly mess with the car's electrical system.  They are so complicated and expensive these days, I wouldn't risk it.

[VocalNeal]

23 hours ago, transam said:

But it's a new car, it will always be in the back of your head for trouble down the line...????

Agree but it can also be addressed at the first scheduled service. It may never happen again.

[Ralf001]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:28 AM, Road Warrior said:

i thought auto gear box CANT STALL ????????

Iam surprised it was able to drive at 6km/h !!!

[VocalNeal]

^ Maybe that is the start/stop threshold ????

Edited April 4, 2023 by VocalNeal

[Liverpool Lou]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:33 PM, Alain Folly said:

I'm no expert on obd(2) systems but I strongly suspect this kind of engine light stall would register as specific trouble code.  But they refused or didn't understand.  

So it happened once and has never happened again?    Not much of a "defect", then, I don't blame the dealer for not acknowledging what you see as a defect.

[Dazkkk]

I have S/S on my car and it’s on all the time but you can switch it off for each individual journey. If the engine is cold it does nothing, if the heater is on it does nothing, if the aircon is on it does nothing. If the battery is low in volts (stop start cars especially diesel cars have a stronger 12v battery to allow for higher cranking draw) it does nothing. So approximately 60% of the time the S/S system does nothing. They fitted these systems in cars because governments insisted on reductions in particles released from the exhaust when stopping in traffic, especially cities. 
I suspect that is what caused your problem, or just a glitch in the multiple electronic systems which was a one off. ????

[Tuvoc]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:28 AM, Alain Folly said:

The stalling event happened during a sudden and forceful stop, going down hill on a gravel surface.  As I pulled out of a parking lot onto a main road, the lane was clear until, at the last minute, it wasn't.

Well, that would have been very relevant in your first post.  Yes the engine can almost stall or actually stall in that situation, I had it once in the UK in the BMW I had at the time. Great to hear that all is well since and you're enjoying the car,