UPDATE: Injured young Brit transferred to UK for treatment after 3 months in Thailand hospital

[gaucan]

link2 gofundme yet? or soon?????????

[Tarteso]

36 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Doubtless you can explain your details of "the scam"?

Definitely.  From my experience at B.H.????

[Liverpool Lou]

22 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

58 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Doubtless you can explain your details of "the scam"?

Definitely.  From my experience at B.H.????

"Definitely".

Go on, then, explain "the scam" that BH perpetrated.

[tgw]

7 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

We are responsible for reading the small print on Insurance documents. Most these days ask will you be riding Motorcycles. And will you be driving a motor vehicle . And will you use a Jet ski. All these things put up your premium and excess. He obviously ticked no for over 50cc. Then thought he would ignore it. The responsibility was all his own

I think travel insurance is an area in need of government regulation.

Travellers can't be required to read 20 pages of small print full of insurance jargon, especially 5 or 6 times depending on whether they compare different insurance policies. Most people won't understand what's written anyway.

Sometimes the small print is ludicrous, such as requiring motorcycle driving licenses for motorcycle passengers. I think I also remember reading somewhere that coverage had been denied for drunk car passengers.

Edited April 26, 2023 by tgw

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

We are responsible for reading the small print on Insurance documents. Most these days ask will you be riding Motorcycles. And will you be driving a motor vehicle . And will you use a Jet ski. All these things put up your premium and excess. He obviously ticked no for over 50cc. Then thought he would ignore it. The responsibility was all his own

I agree with you, but why is the print small in the first place? Why can't it be the same as in the rest of the policy? Don't answer that. Does the policies ask in proper English "will you be riding motorcycles" or is it in some sort of legal jargon?

If the insurance companies ask in normal print "will you be riding motorcycles? Then the problem is almost eradicated. So why don't they do that? Again don't answer that.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

I agree with you, but why is the print small in the first place? Why can't it be the same as in the rest of the policy? Don't answer that. Does the policies ask in proper English "will you be riding motorcycles" or is it in some sort of legal jargon?

If the insurance companies ask in normal print "will you be riding motorcycles? Then the problem is almost eradicated. So why don't they do that? Again don't answer that.

How big would the letters have to be before you would read them ?

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How big would the letters have to be before you would read them ?

 How does a size 72 sound? A nonsense post deserves a nonsense answer.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

    good luck with that one    !

Well some if not all of these motorbike rental shops are/were owned by the police.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, itsari said:

Of course I have to agree with your comment . 

If Thailand wishes to progress as a progressive country changes need to be made . That is one that could make a difference to many unfortunate enough to be involved with an accident and be refused insurance as they had no licence . Of course not forgetting the inexperienced riders that are killed or badly injured .

and the people who are killed or badly injured by them.

[transam]

6 hours ago, arick said:

He is lucky.  How many foreigners have died after a month in the hospital leaving a 10 million baht bill. I know at least three in the last year. 

Can you post links to those three, might be an interesting read......????

[d4dang]

can't get on the ice to play ice hockey without a helmet. Not sure if he was on the bike with one or not. I used to rent a 125cc bike from a guy who had over 50 bikes to rent. A cop owned all the bikes. The renters were not insured but his bikes were because he was making monthly payments on all of them. One I rented was stolen but was recovered in a couple of days if it was not recovered I would have been on the hook for 25k Baht. The cop was cool about it. One of his employees borrowed(?) it. If you had an accident and damaged the bike you got your passport back after you paid. Medical bills are the renters problem. This is unlikely to change.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I thought standard. Mind you, if you don't pay doubt will they they let you go......? Another day added. I have heard of passports being withheld. 

I may be wrong but only Immigration or the courts can do this, not hospitals, but laws will probably be different in different countries.

[bristolgeoff]

Still begging please help,they let him go with part payments.Owe  100k  and will continue to beg more because insurance will not pay because he does not have a bike license,but he knew .They will be another case and begging very soon from the begging bowl

[Tarteso]

59 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Definitely".

Go on, then, explain "the scam" that BH perpetrated.

Long history. Already explained a few years ago in this forum, sadly came back to the same Hospital to another one surgery  of the same disorder..Cervical Myeloradiculopathy.

 

A big issue involving Insurance Company.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Tarteso

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why should anyone have to produce an itemised hospital invoice that details their medical treatment to anonymous AN posters?

I know someone who went to a government hospital for very minor treatment, he was given the price of 500 odd Bt written on a piece of paper, the previous cost for the same treatment at the same hospital was 300 odd Bt, in a proper itemised invoice.

[phetpeter]

Did he not check that the motorbike he hired came with insurance? it is the law that you should have the basic cover that will cover some hoepital treatment...hmm! he didn't ask nor recived is more likely the case.

[Regyai]

As a UK national there are a few anomalies with motorcycles and travel insurance

 

If the families assertion re a 50cc maxima is to be believed then that a 'new to me' policy restriction but it likely refers to the UK full car licence which allows a sub 50cc 'moped'. So if he like most adults had a licence to drive a car, by default he would in the UK be OK for a moped too.

 

This leads to anomaly #1 in that UK car licences show the little motorcycle graphic (for 50cc mopeds) and it consequently also appears on the respective IDP. By virtue of this countless UK folks in Thailand are riding motorcycles (in excess of 50cc) with these documents. A ticking timebomb as come the day...no travel insurance cover!

 

Many UK travel insurances give absolutely NO cover for motorcycles

 

Some policies throw in cover for sub 125cc Motorcycles

 

Travel insurance with cover  for > 125cc (which many newer Thai 'twist n gos' now are) is as rare as hens teeth - I know of only one.

 

None of the insurers (AFAIK) extend personal liability cover for riding motorcycles

 

So even if you are in the favoured position of having a policy with sub 125cc cover, and possessing the relevant UK motor bike 'rating' that covers that size cc / equipped yourself with an IDP, suitable 'sissy-lid'  & found a 125cc rental - you still bear any liability incurred, and will fall foul of any alcohol or substance induced impairment clauses.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, itsari said:

Good news the young man is back home and slowly recovering. 

I would like to see more responsibility placed on businesses that hire out motorcycle's to people with no license . 

 

But nobody forces you to rent a motorbike in Thailand. It is your own personal choice to do so.

 

if you do so, and have an accident, then the responsibility is yours alone.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, NoshowJones said:

 How does a size 72 sound? A nonsense post deserves a nonsense answer.

You said that the letters should be bigger , its a legitimate question to ask how much bigger the letters should be before you would read them 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, NoshowJones said:

I know someone who went to a government hospital for very minor treatment, he was given the price of 500 odd Bt written on a piece of paper, the previous cost for the same treatment at the same hospital was 300 odd Bt, in a proper itemised invoice.

Every time I use the state hospital up the road I get a printed out itemised bill. The price varies depending on the treatment and the meds I get.

[BritScot]

9 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

We are responsible for reading the small print on Insurance documents. Most these days ask will you be riding Motorcycles. And will you be driving a motor vehicle . And will you use a Jet ski. All these things put up your premium and excess. He obviously ticked no for over 50cc. Then thought he would ignore it. The responsibility was all his own

I recently took out travel insurance for my family and I and to be honest I never noticed anything about driving vehicles ot jet ski's! I also have a totally different view and the opposit of most on here who always seem to blame the victim  because I blame the shop who rented him the bike. Why didn't they ask to see his licence? Oh money No1!!! You can't walk into a rental in the UK and rent a vehicle without first showing your licence....

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

I agree with you, but why is the print small in the first place? Why can't it be the same as in the rest of the policy?

It's not in small print, and the relevant limits are clearly stated up front. The "small print" myth has been debunked several times here, including by Sheryl herself. Examples have been given. Enough with the BS.

 

"Small print" is just one of the inevitable excuses concocted by the families back home to elicit sympathy and more donations. Posters here swallow it at face value because they love their "lads" making lil' innocent, perfectly understandable mistakes, and they hate insurance companies on principle for such things as denying pre-existing conditions, having policy conditions, and daring to ask for evidence from the claimants. 

 

Cf. that ridiculous suggestion that the motorbike rental shop was at fault because it should have been responsible for knowing the details of the Brit's travel policy and therefore denying the rental. ????

Edited April 26, 2023 by BigStar

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, phetpeter said:

Did he not check that the motorbike he hired came with insurance? it is the law that you should have the basic cover that will cover some hoepital treatment...hmm! he didn't ask nor recived is more likely the case.

You need to look into the way bikes are rented out here. They nearly all only come with the compulsory (CTPL) insurance... it provides only third party liability, of 30,000 or  80,000 baht medical cover only. (Depending who is at fault).

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You said that the letters should be bigger , its a legitimate question to ask how much bigger the letters should be before you would read them 

The letters should all be the same size, I don't care what size, and there should be no small print. Is that plain enough for you? 

[NoshowJones]

59 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Every time I use the state hospital up the road I get a printed out itemised bill. The price varies depending on the treatment and the meds I get.

Off course, that's the way it should be.

[NoshowJones]

17 minutes ago, BigStar said:

It's not in small print, and the relevant limits are clearly stated up front. The "small print" myth has been debunked several times here, including by Sheryl herself. Examples have been given. Enough with the BS.

 

"Small print" is just one of the inevitable excuses concocted by the families back home to elicit sympathy and more donations. Posters here swallow it at face value because they love their "lads" making lil' innocent, perfectly understandable mistakes, and they hate insurance companies on principle for such things as denying pre-existing conditions, having policy conditions, and daring to ask for evidence from the claimants. 

 

Cf. that ridiculous suggestion that the motorbike rental shop was at fault because it should have been responsible for knowing the details of the Brit's travel policy and therefore denying the rental. ????

To be honest, and I have stated this before, it is years since I have had an insurance policy, so I cannot disagree with you. When small print it is exactly what you said, posters keep on going on about small print or fine print. When small print is mentioned, my mind goes to restaurant menu's and the extra charge of 17% for taxes.

You have got it spot on in your last paragraph about motorbike rental shops.

[Jonathan Swift]

16 hours ago, aussienam said:

"Susan said that Richardson’s insurance didn’t pay out because anyone who rents a motorbike above 50cc must have completed a bike competency test in the UK, which he didn’t know because the shop that rented him the bike only asked for his money and driving license."

 

So, from this logic, he therefore assumed that because a motorbike rental shop rents him a bike, he is covered by his travel insurance and the rental shop knows about a UK bike competency test requirement! 

Responsibility for this mess rests on the shoulders of this young man, who now faces partial blindness and other issues. 

 

And yet I see every day here in Pattaya, foreigners of all ages riding around with no helmet, thinking (or blissfully ignorant/careless) they will be fine and nothing will happen to them.  Many also speeding, drunk as well. I won't be forking out cash to help fund a repatriation or hospital costs to these people, with their brains half hanging out their head, guts ripped open, crumpled broken bodies bleeding all over the road.  Bad luck.  

 

Why do I get the feeling that you don't "fork out cash" to very many people, needy or not? I guess being dumb or ignorant and making mistakes is a crime punishable by death. Me, if someone is in need, I don't judge them for their mistakes if they are otherwise not inherently bad people. There are plenty of truly bad people in the world worthy of scorn. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jonathan Swift

[Jonathan Swift]

1 hour ago, Regyai said:

As a UK national there are a few anomalies with motorcycles and travel insurance

 

If the families assertion re a 50cc maxima is to be believed then that a 'new to me' policy restriction but it likely refers to the UK full car licence which allows a sub 50cc 'moped'. So if he like most adults had a licence to drive a car, by default he would in the UK be OK for a moped too.

 

This leads to anomaly #1 in that UK car licences show the little motorcycle graphic (for 50cc mopeds) and it consequently also appears on the respective IDP. By virtue of this countless UK folks in Thailand are riding motorcycles (in excess of 50cc) with these documents. A ticking timebomb as come the day...no travel insurance cover!

 

Many UK travel insurances give absolutely NO cover for motorcycles

 

Some policies throw in cover for sub 125cc Motorcycles

 

Travel insurance with cover  for > 125cc (which many newer Thai 'twist n gos' now are) is as rare as hens teeth - I know of only one.

 

None of the insurers (AFAIK) extend personal liability cover for riding motorcycles

 

So even if you are in the favoured position of having a policy with sub 125cc cover, and possessing the relevant UK motor bike 'rating' that covers that size cc / equipped yourself with an IDP, suitable 'sissy-lid'  & found a 125cc rental - you still bear any liability incurred, and will fall foul of any alcohol or substance induced impairment clauses.

As an experienced motorcycle rider of many decades, safety begins and ends with the driver. 99% of accidents are avoidable. It's quite sad that so many riders here give little or no thought to basic riding skills, only to having fun and partying. 

[itsari]

6 hours ago, Henryford said:

I would like to see more responsibility from people renting bikes to have proper insurance, training and helmets.

Agree , yet to have insurance you need a license 

[itsari]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

But nobody forces you to rent a motorbike in Thailand. It is your own personal choice to do so.

 

if you do so, and have an accident, then the responsibility is yours alone.

Not correct,