Move Forward party leader denies lying on TV about his father’s funeral

[still kicking]

10 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

You are about to be severely disappointed

PT are going to win in a landslide

Prayuth and Prawit will receive embarrassingly low level of votes

Thaksin's daughter will be PM

Thaksin is going to return to Thailand this year

The constitution will be replaced with one very similar to the 1997 peoples constitution

The unelected Senators will be no more

The military leadership will be replaced with Thaksin appointees in October

Prayuth's corruption during the last 9 years will be investigated and exposed

There will be judicial reform - the courts will be depoliticised

The use of live ammunition on citizens in 2010 will be investigated and exposed

Thanathorn will be allowed to return to politics and probably win the election after the next one further consigning the military to obscurity

and maybe, just maybe - a few Generals may yet end up in jail or exile

 

It's over.

You have lost.

????????????

 

 

 

And then you woke up

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

You are about to be severely disappointed

PT are going to win in a landslide

Prayuth and Prawit will receive embarrassingly low level of votes

Thaksin's daughter will be PM

Thaksin is going to return to Thailand this year

The constitution will be replaced with one very similar to the 1997 peoples constitution

The unelected Senators will be no more

The military leadership will be replaced with Thaksin appointees in October

Prayuth's corruption during the last 9 years will be investigated and exposed

There will be judicial reform - the courts will be depoliticised

The use of live ammunition on citizens in 2010 will be investigated and exposed

Thanathorn will be allowed to return to politics and probably win the election after the next one further consigning the military to obscurity

and maybe, just maybe - a few Generals may yet end up in jail or exile

 

It's over.

You have lost.

????????????

 

 

 

I do hope so.

 

It cannot come quickly enough.

[MrMojoRisin]

37 minutes ago, still kicking said:

And then you woke up

There has definitely been an awakening.

9 years of incompetent rule has the Thai people united unlike ever before.

In 16 days, wannabe fascism in Thailand is dead.

What on earth are you junta loving anti democracy expats going to do with yourselves?

[NONG CHOK]

14 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

There has definitely been an awakening.

9 years of incompetent rule has the Thai people united unlike ever before.

In 16 days, wannabe fascism in Thailand is dead.

What on earth are you junta loving anti democracy expats going to do with yourselves?

I've lived in Thailand with my Thai wife for the past 22 years. I walk 90 minutes around our large estate every day and I've never seen how much Thai people have changed. Maybe they're in despair thinking a vote for democracy won't change the Government. Let's hope they're wrong.

[MrMojoRisin]

28 minutes ago, NONG CHOK said:

I've lived in Thailand with my Thai wife for the past 22 years. I walk 90 minutes around our large estate every day and I've never seen how much Thai people have changed. Maybe they're in despair thinking a vote for democracy won't change the Government. Let's hope they're wrong.

Household debt is through the roof.

Most people vote out of self interest, not on principles

Economic self interest is the reason Prayuth is going to lose in a landslide

There will be a change of government, the only uncertainty is whether the losers try to steal the election and force the people to take to the streets for one final battle or will the losers negotiate the conditions of their surrender peacefully.

So weak is the position of the anti-democracy side I see negotiations as the only viable option.....unless the crazies seize control and embark on a suicide mission.

We'll all know soon enough.

[still kicking]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

There has definitely been an awakening.

9 years of incompetent rule has the Thai people united unlike ever before.

In 16 days, wannabe fascism in Thailand is dead.

What on earth are you junta loving anti democracy expats going to do with yourselves?

I am not junta loving at all Thanathorn is on my friends list and many MFP members.

[NanLaew]

This will be a watershed election where Thailand's age-old excuse that democracy here is 'different' is finally laid to rest. A non-military adminstration will restart and continue the deep, fundamantal, political and societal changes inspired by the successive, popular, non-military adminstrations of 2001-14.

 

There will be no more military coups and long after he has passed, Prayuth will be rightly recognized as the last 'army man' to usurp power but the first one who read the people right.

 

On the other hand...

[sidneybear]

7 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

You are about to be severely disappointed

PT are going to win in a landslide

Prayuth and Prawit will receive embarrassingly low level of votes

Thaksin's daughter will be PM

Thaksin is going to return to Thailand this year

The constitution will be replaced with one very similar to the 1997 peoples constitution

The unelected Senators will be no more

The military leadership will be replaced with Thaksin appointees in October

Prayuth's corruption during the last 9 years will be investigated and exposed

There will be judicial reform - the courts will be depoliticised

The use of live ammunition on citizens in 2010 will be investigated and exposed

Thanathorn will be allowed to return to politics and probably win the election after the next one further consigning the military to obscurity

and maybe, just maybe - a few Generals may yet end up in jail or exile

 

It's over.

You have lost.

????????????

 

 

 

Time will tell my friend. There were lots of people saying exactly what you're saying in 2006, and 2014 .... Thailand is a bot like a cat. It always lands on its feet.

[MrMojoRisin]

55 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Time will tell my friend. There were lots of people saying exactly what you're saying in 2006, and 2014 .... Thailand is a bot like a cat. It always lands on its feet.

Inequality in Thailand is extreme. The effort required to maintain the status quo, the level of oppression and censorship necessary is unachievable in an open society. The Thai people are not going to accept, for example, the impositions that the CCP enforces on Chinese citizens in order to remain in power. Thais have tasted freedom and experienced real democracy and they want more. Banning public gatherings, arbitrary detention, internet censorship… Thais have had a taste of this sort of nonsense under Prayuth and they resoundingly detest it all. Many Thais have died in the decades old fight against the establishment that deliberately created the extremely unequal and exploitative society - their deaths have not been in vain, victory is nigh.

 

Why do you want Thailand to be ruled as the CCP rule China? Do you really think Thaksin (or Thanathorn) are so evil that condemning a nation of 70 million to the miserable existence that most Chinese are forced to endure is a price worth paying? What is wrong with you?

[sidneybear]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Inequality in Thailand is extreme. The effort required to maintain the status quo, the level of oppression and censorship necessary is unachievable in an open society. The Thai people are not going to accept, for example, the impositions that the CCP enforces on Chinese citizens in order to remain in power. Thais have tasted freedom and experienced real democracy and they want more. Banning public gatherings, arbitrary detention, internet censorship… Thais have had a taste of this sort of nonsense under Prayuth and they resoundingly detest it all. Many Thais have died in the decades old fight against the establishment that deliberately created the extremely unequal and exploitative society - their deaths have not been in vain, victory is nigh.

 

Why do you want Thailand to be ruled as the CCP rule China? Do you really think Thaksin (or Thanathorn) are so evil that condemning a nation of 70 million to the miserable existence that most Chinese are forced to endure is a price worth paying? What is wrong with you?

It all depends how far back you go. Thailand these days has a growing middle class and people are much better off than they were. It's achieved a lot, without losing its delightful culture and national identity. 

 

To say that there's "something wrong" with those who hold a political opinion that differs from yours is ad hominem: it epitomises a modern and degenerated state of debate that's popular in the west right now. Conservative Thais look at your viewpoint, and it's results elsewhere, and may well conclude that 'progress' is not always a good thing, as it often involves sliding backwards and downwards. We'll see manifestations of that very soon, and I welcome Thaksin and his divisive and crooked family getting kicked out again. Ditto that culturally bereft Future Forward socialist. 

 

You're also confusing conservatism with communism, so you might want to read up on the glaring differences between the two.

Edited April 28, 2023 by sidneybear

[zzaa09]

10 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

There has definitely been an awakening.

9 years of incompetent rule has the Thai people united unlike ever before.

In 16 days, wannabe fascism in Thailand is dead.

What on earth are you junta loving anti democracy expats going to do with yourselves?

Run off to Burma where they might feel at home.....

[zzaa09]

10 hours ago, NONG CHOK said:

I've lived in Thailand with my Thai wife for the past 22 years. I walk 90 minutes around our large estate every day and I've never seen how much Thai people have changed. Maybe they're in despair thinking a vote for democracy won't change the Government. Let's hope they're wrong.

What type of democracy might we be speaking of...?

Example?

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

It all depends how far back you go. Thailand these days has a growing middle class and people are much better off than they were. It's achieved a lot, without losing its delightful culture and national identity. 

 

To say that there's "something wrong" with those who hold a political opinion that differs from yours is ad hominem: it epitomises a modern and degenerated state of debate that's popular in the west right now. Conservative Thais look at your viewpoint, and it's results elsewhere, and may well conclude that 'progress' is not always a good thing, as it often involves sliding backwards and downwards. We'll see manifestations of that very soon, and I welcome Thaksin and his divisive and crooked family getting kicked out again. Ditto that culturally bereft Future Forward socialist. 

 

You're also confusing conservatism with communism, so you might want to read up on the glaring differences between the two.

Thailands development has been stunted by anti democracy kleptocrats. If the middle class was growing instead of being under extreme financial pressure then Prayuth would easily win re-election. Why do you think that Prayuth is doing so poorly in the polls?

 

Calling out abhorrent political “opinions” is not ad hominem, it is simply stating facts.
 

Conservative Thais are entitled to their opinion and their vote - they are not entitled to silencing those opposed to them nor denying them their vote.

 

It is you that are confused if you think that China is communist. The CCP is more aptly described as being authoritarian and nationalistic, not surprisingly the same two terms that spring to mind when discussing the current Thai regime and its supporters.
 

[sidneybear]

57 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

abhorrent political “opinions”

There you go again, using emotional language. Your points might carry more weight if they were made politely, recognising that others don't share your opinion.

 

57 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Thailands development has been stunted by anti democracy kleptocrats.

What would a "more developed" Thailand look like? The west? Look at the state the west is in now, with its total breakdown of family, society and culture. People are lonely, angry, divided, and are resorting to hurling insults at each other (like you do) instead of trying to reconcile their differences. I'm glad that Thailand rejects this kind of "progress". 

 

57 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

It is you that are confused if you think that China is communist. The CCP is more aptly described as being authoritarian and nationalistic, not surprisingly the same two terms that spring to mind when discussing the current Thai regime and its supporters.

China's version of Marxism has adapted to the modern world, particularly in its embrace of making money to become more powerful. That said, various core attributes of Leninism-Marxism plainly exist in Chinese society that don't exist in Thai society, such as: the suppression of religion, the deification of political figures, the subordination of the family unit in favour of the state, the erasure of traditions, and the insistence on cultural and class homogeneity that is defined by state edicts. Moreover, business leaders are treated with suspicion in China, and are struck down if they become too powerful, 'bourgeoise' even, like Jack Ma from Ali-baba and others have been. 

 

Thai conservatism, on the other hand, very much supports religion, encourages a strong family unit, values tradition, holds successful businesspeople in high esteem, and is tolerant of cultural differences. Sure, Thailand keeps its house in order by expelling divisive and crooked oligarchs from its political system, but that's not such a bad thing if it means maintaining Thailand's traditions and social order. 

 

 

 

[MrMojoRisin]

3 hours ago, sidneybear said:

There you go again, using emotional language. Your points might carry more weight if they were made politely, recognising that others don't share your opinion.

 

What would a "more developed" Thailand look like? The west? Look at the state the west is in now, with its total breakdown of family, society and culture. People are lonely, angry, divided, and are resorting to hurling insults at each other (like you do) instead of trying to reconcile their differences. I'm glad that Thailand rejects this kind of "progress". 

 

China's version of Marxism has adapted to the modern world, particularly in its embrace of making money to become more powerful. That said, various core attributes of Leninism-Marxism plainly exist in Chinese society that don't exist in Thai society, such as: the suppression of religion, the deification of political figures, the subordination of the family unit in favour of the state, the erasure of traditions, and the insistence on cultural and class homogeneity that is defined by state edicts. Moreover, business leaders are treated with suspicion in China, and are struck down if they become too powerful, 'bourgeoise' even, like Jack Ma from Ali-baba and others have been. 

 

Thai conservatism, on the other hand, very much supports religion, encourages a strong family unit, values tradition, holds successful businesspeople in high esteem, and is tolerant of cultural differences. Sure, Thailand keeps its house in order by expelling divisive and crooked oligarchs from its political system, but that's not such a bad thing if it means maintaining Thailand's traditions and social order. 

There you go again, using emotional language. Your points might carry more weight if they were made politely, recognising that others don't share your opinion.

 

Opinions are not automatically valid or equal. Opinions are subservient to facts (e.g. you can't have an opinion that 1 + 1 = 5). Should anti-semitic or racist opinions be treated as anything other than deplorable? How should we treat Putin's opinion that Ukraine belongs to Russia? 

 

What would a "more developed" Thailand look like? The west? Look at the state the west is in now, with its total breakdown of family, society and culture. People are lonely, angry, divided, and are resorting to hurling insults at each other (like you do) instead of trying to reconcile their differences. I'm glad that Thailand rejects this kind of "progress". 

 

A more developed Thailand would be a Thailand with less unnecessary death and suffering and more freedom, for example: developed western countries have an infant morality rate of between 2 and 3 deaths per 1000 live births whilst Thailand is over double that rate at 6.882 (2022), Thailand's poverty rate plummeted under Thaksin's leadership averaging just over 7% annual decreases, since the coups that rate of decrease has more than halved only again rising above 4% under Yingluck's government (“The increase in poverty in 2018 was widespread, occurring in all regions and 61 out of 77 provinces,” the World Bank said in a report last year), Thailand has been downgraded in global rankings from "partly free" to "not free" under the Prayuth regime reversing the previous trend, both political and individual freedoms have been severely curtailed, the suicide rate in Thailand declined by 3.6 per 100,000 under Thaksin but increased by 1.0 per 100,000 under Prayuth, Thailand has the highest income inequality in East Asia (by some measures the world), just look at what has happened since the 2006 coup in the graph below.

 

 

China's version of Marxism has adapted to the modern world, particularly in its embrace of making money to become more powerful. That said, various core attributes of Leninism-Marxism plainly exist in Chinese society that don't exist in Thai society, such as: the suppression of religion, the deification of political figures, the subordination of the family unit in favour of the state, the erasure of traditions, and the insistence on cultural and class homogeneity that is defined by state edicts. Moreover, business leaders are treated with suspicion in China, and are struck down if they become too powerful, 'bourgeoise' even, like Jack Ma from Ali-baba and others have been. 

 

How curious, in order for China to develop it has embraced western practices, technologies and economic policies and as a result seen remarkable progress in a very short period, yet.... you also want to claim the the west is on the verge of collapse and void of morals and decency. 

 

Thai conservatism, on the other hand, very much supports religion, encourages a strong family unit, values tradition, holds successful businesspeople in high esteem, and is tolerant of cultural differences. Sure, Thailand keeps its house in order by expelling divisive and crooked oligarchs from its political system, but that's not such a bad thing if it means maintaining Thailand's traditions and social order. 

 

The leader of Prayuth's party, UTN was recently in the news for labelling progressive Thais "nation haters" who he will "drive out of the country". What sort of dystopian nightmare are you supporting here? Who rightly gets to dictate a nations values if not its people via democracy. Thailand is one of the most unequal societies in the world - is this something worthy of being maintained or do the Thai people deserve better? 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[sidneybear]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

There you go again, using emotional language. Your points might carry more weight if they were made politely, recognising that others don't share your opinion.

 

Opinions are not automatically valid or equal. Opinions are subservient to facts (e.g. you can't have an opinion that 1 + 1 = 5). Should anti-semitic or racist opinions be treated as anything other than deplorable? How should we treat Putin's opinion that Ukraine belongs to Russia? 

 

What would a "more developed" Thailand look like? The west? Look at the state the west is in now, with its total breakdown of family, society and culture. People are lonely, angry, divided, and are resorting to hurling insults at each other (like you do) instead of trying to reconcile their differences. I'm glad that Thailand rejects this kind of "progress". 

 

A more developed Thailand would be a Thailand with less unnecessary death and suffering and more freedom, for example: developed western countries have an infant morality rate of between 2 and 3 deaths per 1000 live births whilst Thailand is over double that rate at 6.882 (2022), Thailand's poverty rate plummeted under Thaksin's leadership averaging just over 7% annual decreases, since the coups that rate of decrease has more than halved only again rising above 4% under Yingluck's government (“The increase in poverty in 2018 was widespread, occurring in all regions and 61 out of 77 provinces,” the World Bank said in a report last year), Thailand has been downgraded in global rankings from "partly free" to "not free" under the Prayuth regime reversing the previous trend, both political and individual freedoms have been severely curtailed, the suicide rate in Thailand declined by 3.6 per 100,000 under Thaksin but increased by 1.0 per 100,000 under Prayuth, Thailand has the highest income inequality in East Asia (by some measures the world), just look at what has happened since the 2006 coup in the graph below.

 

 

China's version of Marxism has adapted to the modern world, particularly in its embrace of making money to become more powerful. That said, various core attributes of Leninism-Marxism plainly exist in Chinese society that don't exist in Thai society, such as: the suppression of religion, the deification of political figures, the subordination of the family unit in favour of the state, the erasure of traditions, and the insistence on cultural and class homogeneity that is defined by state edicts. Moreover, business leaders are treated with suspicion in China, and are struck down if they become too powerful, 'bourgeoise' even, like Jack Ma from Ali-baba and others have been. 

 

How curious, in order for China to develop it has embraced western practices, technologies and economic policies and as a result seen remarkable progress in a very short period, yet.... you also want to claim the the west is on the verge of collapse and void of morals and decency. 

 

Thai conservatism, on the other hand, very much supports religion, encourages a strong family unit, values tradition, holds successful businesspeople in high esteem, and is tolerant of cultural differences. Sure, Thailand keeps its house in order by expelling divisive and crooked oligarchs from its political system, but that's not such a bad thing if it means maintaining Thailand's traditions and social order. 

 

The leader of Prayuth's party, UTN was recently in the news for labelling progressive Thais "nation haters" who he will "drive out of the country". What sort of dystopian nightmare are you supporting here? Who rightly gets to dictate a nations values if not its people via democracy. Thailand is one of the most unequal societies in the world - is this something worthy of being maintained or do the Thai people deserve better? 

 

The bar chart you showed is misleading, as it only shows wealth distribution by the top and bottom 10%, rather what lies in between. The fact that the very rich are getting richer is a global phenomenon (and I'll even cite the Guardian here):

 

World’s 10 richest men see their wealth double during Covid pandemic | Rich lists | The Guardian

 

There are various reasons why the world's richest are getting richer, and its poorest are getting poorer, and Thailand's government isn't one of them. If we look at household income per capita though, the statistics tell a very different story:

 

Thailand Household Income per Capita, 1981 – 2023 | CEIC Data

 

All is all, Thailand has continued to do well, and household income has increased more rapidly since those terrible conservatives took over.

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The leader of Prayuth's party, UTN was recently in the news for labelling progressive Thais "nation haters" who he will "drive out of the country".

Yes, well, he may have a point. By 'progressive', I think he's looking at the west, where 'progressives' (that Future Forward in many ways resembles) seek to disregard and apologise for their nation's history, suppress the national religion, subordinate the family unit in favour of the state, erase traditions, and insist on cultural and class homogeneity that is defined by state edicts. Does that sound familiar? It's those attributes of Marxism I outlined earlier, and it's a good thing if people like that are driven out, or there will be nothing left of Thailand. 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by sidneybear

[MrMojoRisin]

34 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

 

The bar chart you showed is misleading, as it only shows wealth distribution by the top and bottom 10%, rather what lies in between. The fact that the very rich are getting richer is a global phenomenon (and I'll even cite the Guardian here):

 

Comprehension ain't a strong point eh?

 

The bar chart shows the bottom 50% and the top 10%

What lies between?

The remaining 40% of Thais possess an astounding 12.6% of the wealth.

 

It doesn't take much effort to deduce that the bottom 90% of Thais hold just 14.3% of the wealth.

Compared to the USA where the top 1% own 38.5%, Thailand's top 1% own an obscene 85.7%

Thailand is right at the very top of the worst in the world for inequality... and deliberately so.

Democracy will, as much as it is possible, reduce this inequality.

 

Are you shocked that the meagre 1.7% that you thought the bottom 10% owned is actually the total wealth of the bottom 50%? It is disgraceful and anyone who preaches cultural values, traditions and purports to care for the Thai people, if they were genuine, would be front and centre in the fight to restore democracy.... yet here you are Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin. You're fooling no one but yourself.

 

All is all, Thailand has continued to do well, and household income has increased more rapidly since those terrible conservatives took over.

Yes, well, he may have a point. By 'progressive', I think he's looking at the west, where progressives seek to disregard and apologise for their nation's history, suppress the national religion, the subordinate the family unit in favour of the state, erasure traditions, and insist on cultural and class homogeneity that is defined by state edicts. Does that sound familiar? It's attributes of Marxism I outlined earlier, and it's a good thing if people like that are driven out. 

 

Nobody should be driven out. Every citizen deserves their say via their vote. Who are the conservatives to oppressively force their views, values and beliefs onto others? Who are the conservatives to deny their fellow citizens of their right to vote? More pertinently, why do Thai conservatives need to deny democracy? 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[sidneybear]

38 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Comprehension ain't a strong point eh?

Oh dear, you're becoming rude again, and are reminding me of a small child shouting and stomping his feet. We could dig up numbers all day, such as this one that shows median household income (as many households above as there are below):

 

https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/macroeconomic/median-household-income-in-thailand/#:~:text=Thailand's median household income (PPP,household income increased by 48.7%.

 

Nice result, huh?

 

Anyway, all you have to do is look around and you’ll see lots of examples of Thailand's middle class prosperity. Even towns in deepest Isaan have air conditioned malls these days, a phenomenon unheard of not so long ago. People on all walks of life are much better off than they were. Of course, inflation is a problem that disproportionately affects the poorest, but we're sadly seeing that everywhere right now, and it's causes are not Thailand's fault. 

 

38 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

is disgraceful and anyone who preaches cultural values, traditions and purports to care for the Thai people, if they were genuine, would be front and centre in the fight to restore democracy....

More ad hominem stuff, which ignores the points I made earlier about western 'democracies' degenerating into soulless hell holes, which is why we all came to Thailand in the first place, I guess. Western liberal and left wing people don't see it this way though. They're a dogmatic lot, and many will never change their minds when faced with facts as I once myself did.

Edited April 29, 2023 by sidneybear

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Oh dear, you're becoming rude again, and are reminding me of a small child shouting and stomping his feet. We could dig up numbers all day, such as this one that shows median household income (as many households above as there are below):

 

https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/macroeconomic/median-household-income-in-thailand/#:~:text=Thailand's median household income (PPP,household income increased by 48.7%.

 

Nice result, huh?

 

Anyway, all you have to do is look around and you’ll see lots of examples of Thailand's middle class prosperity. Even towns in deepest Isaan have air conditioned malls these days, a phenomenon unheard of not so long ago. People on all walks of life are much better off than they were. Of course, inflation is a problem that disproportionately affects the poorest, but we're sadly seeing that everywhere right now, and it's causes are not Thailand's fault. 

 

More ad hominem stuff, which ignores the points I made earlier about western 'democracies' degenerating into soulless hell holes, which is why we all came to Thailand in the first place, I guess. Western liberal and left wing people don't see it this way though. They're a dogmatic lot, and many will never change their minds when faced with facts as I once myself did.

1% of the population owns 85% of the wealth - it's indefensible which is why you have opted to ignore it.

Weak!

 

Your stats don't tell the story you think it they do (comprehension again?).

48.7% over 11 years looks quite paltry.

How does this compare with Vietnam over the same period?

Vietnam PPP household income went from US$894 in 2010 to US$2178 in 2021.

That, my friend, is a 243% increase in the same time it took Thailand to achieve 48.7%

 

Thailand is underdeveloped outside of Bangkok. This is the very reason why Thaksin is so popular - he kickstarted development of the rest of the country, had he remained in power god knows how high the PPP household income would be by now - perhaps the figure would be 100% instead of just 48.7%, thanks to the anti-democracy forces we'll never know what could have been. Lets not forget, before Thaksin came along the rural poor didn't even get access to decent affordable healthcare - what does this say about your cherished traditions and culture?. The introduction of the 30 baht universal healthcare system eliminated 17,000 preventable infant deaths per year - the sort of malfeasance not seen in the west for a century was only solved by a democratically elected Thaksin a mere 20 years ago.

 

Why are you so afraid of letting the Thai people decide what they want for themselves and their country? If they wish to embrace aspects of western culture and economic policy who are the minority to deny them that? You don't even respect the Thai people enough to let them decide their own future, your anti-western diatribes are but a fig leaf that are all too easily seen through.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[sidneybear]

19 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

.... This is the very reason why Thaksin is so popular ....

 

..... Lets not forget, before Thaksin came along ....

 

..... by a democratically elected Thaksin ..... 

That's so ironic. You were mocking me for saying Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin a few posts back, and you just did it yourself. Enjoy your weekend ????

Edited April 29, 2023 by sidneybear

[NONG CHOK]

2 hours ago, sidneybear said:

That's so ironic. You were mocking me for saying Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin a few posts back, and you just did it yourself. Enjoy your weekend ????

I believe everyone is forgetting one thing. What happens if Pheu Thai wins in a landslide, will this be accepted by the military cretins or are we back to a military take over again. There needs to be intervention from the luxury alpine resort in Germany.

[marin]

6 minutes ago, NONG CHOK said:

There needs to be intervention from the luxury alpine resort in Germany.

He lives in Thailand and is right behind the military so please wake up. 

[zzaa09]

13 hours ago, sidneybear said:

It all depends how far back you go. Thailand these days has a growing middle class and people are much better off than they were. It's achieved a lot, without losing its delightful culture and national identity. 

 

To say that there's "something wrong" with those who hold a political opinion that differs from yours is ad hominem: it epitomises a modern and degenerated state of debate that's popular in the west right now. Conservative Thais look at your viewpoint, and it's results elsewhere, and may well conclude that 'progress' is not always a good thing, as it often involves sliding backwards and downwards. We'll see manifestations of that very soon, and I welcome Thaksin and his divisive and crooked family getting kicked out again. Ditto that culturally bereft Future Forward socialist. 

 

You're also confusing conservatism with communism, so you might want to read up on the glaring differences between the two.

Indeed.

.....and in the end, despite what falsified political identities are projected and practiced, regardless of the powers that be - the good Thai population will continue to get on free, independent and self-sufficiently as they always have. 

 

It might be us, the unaware outsiders, that flourish in a dreamy cognitive state that suggest Thais are under the suppressive thumb of some imagined government mechanism of their choosing.....

 

That's just not the way it is - never has been. 

We'll insist on putting a deeper Occidental spin and reason towards most everything, which generally becomes more fanciful with each passing moment - confusing the well intended. 

[NONG CHOK]

38 minutes ago, marin said:

He lives in Thailand and is right behind the military so please wake up. 

He lives in Thailand, please verify that.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, NONG CHOK said:

He lives in Thailand, please verify that.

Nothing can be verified about their whereabouts.....

 

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Nothing can be verified about their whereabouts.....

 

Try doing an internet search outside of Thailand.

 

2 hours ago, marin said:

He lives in Thailand and is right behind the military so please wake up. 

 

[zzaa09]

45 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Guess you didn't pick up on the slight facetiousness and sarcasm of above comments.

Oh well.

 

 

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Inequality in Thailand is extreme. The effort required to maintain the status quo, the level of oppression and censorship necessary is unachievable in an open society. The Thai people are not going to accept, for example, the impositions that the CCP enforces on Chinese citizens in order to remain in power. Thais have tasted freedom and experienced real democracy and they want more. Banning public gatherings, arbitrary detention, internet censorship… Thais have had a taste of this sort of nonsense under Prayuth and they resoundingly detest it all. Many Thais have died in the decades old fight against the establishment that deliberately created the extremely unequal and exploitative society - their deaths have not been in vain, victory is nigh.

 

Why do you want Thailand to be ruled as the CCP rule China? Do you really think Thaksin (or Thanathorn) are so evil that condemning a nation of 70 million to the miserable existence that most Chinese are forced to endure is a price worth paying? What is wrong with you?

Gotta love rookies, eh?

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

1% of the population owns 85% of the wealth - it's indefensible which is why you have opted to ignore it.

Weak!

 

Your stats don't tell the story you think it they do (comprehension again?).

48.7% over 11 years looks quite paltry.

How does this compare with Vietnam over the same period?

Vietnam PPP household income went from US$894 in 2010 to US$2178 in 2021.

That, my friend, is a 243% increase in the same time it took Thailand to achieve 48.7%

 

Thailand is underdeveloped outside of Bangkok. This is the very reason why Thaksin is so popular - he kickstarted development of the rest of the country, had he remained in power god knows how high the PPP household income would be by now - perhaps the figure would be 100% instead of just 48.7%, thanks to the anti-democracy forces we'll never know what could have been. Lets not forget, before Thaksin came along the rural poor didn't even get access to decent affordable healthcare - what does this say about your cherished traditions and culture?. The introduction of the 30 baht universal healthcare system eliminated 17,000 preventable infant deaths per year - the sort of malfeasance not seen in the west for a century was only solved by a democratically elected Thaksin a mere 20 years ago.

 

Why are you so afraid of letting the Thai people decide what they want for themselves and their country? If they wish to embrace aspects of western culture and economic policy who are the minority to deny them that? You don't even respect the Thai people enough to let them decide their own future, your anti-western diatribes are but a fig leaf that are all too easily seen through.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for Bangkok but the provincial capital of Udon Thani has developed and expanded more in the past five or six years on Prayuth's watch than it ever did under the original TRT and subsequent Thaksin-led administrations.

[MrMojoRisin]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I can't speak for Bangkok but the provincial capital of Udon Thani has developed and expanded more in the past five or six years on Prayuth's watch than it ever did under the original TRT and subsequent Thaksin-led administrations.

What an extraordinary achievement, especially given the fact that two of the six years you mention were pandemic years. Prayuth must be a genius. I am curious though, given Prayuth’s outstanding success in developing Udon Thani, why is he so unpopular? I mean, you’ve made it clear that Thaksin’s meagre efforts merit no adulation yet here we are 20 years later and vast numbers of Thais worship the man as a god primarily for being the first PM to invest in rural development on a meaningful scale. Quite the quandary. Perhaps the answer lies in the lack of accuracy of your assessment of the comparative success achieved by each side of Thai politics.

 

Hmmm,

 

But 79% of the poor remain in rural areas and mainly in agricultural households. Thailand’s poverty reduction slowed from 2015 onwards with poverty increasing in 2016, 2018 and 2020, mirroring a slowing economy, stagnating farm and business incomes and the COVID-19 crisis. It finds that in 2020, the poverty rate was over 3 percentage points higher in rural areas than in urban zones and the number of rural poor outnumbered the urban poor by almost 2.3 million. The distribution of poverty has also been uneven across geographic regions with the poverty rate in the South and in the Northeast almost double the poverty rate at the national level.