Richard Sharp caved to the inevitable by resigning - but damage to the BBC has already been done

[RuamRudy]

18 hours ago, JonnyF said:

We all know cultural (mis) appropriation works one way only. To the left.

 

I never saw anyone complaining about black skateboarders, Markle straightening her nose and hair to appear Caucasian, black motocross riders, black golfers,  guitarists etc. 

 

But as soon as a white girl applies fake tan and gets an Afro perm all hell breaks loose.  Heaven forbid a white guy gets dreads and plays the bongos. I even remember the hate towards Eminem (from white leftists) for daring to be a white rapper until they realized he was very talented and possibly top 5 all time.

 

You are really getting yourself in a tangle here.

 

On the one hand, you are criticising those who object to actors playing characters who's ethnicity or sexuality doesn't match their own, but on the other hand you are criticising the practice of... giving acting roles to people who's ethnicity or sexuality is different to the character they play.

 

I think even Schroedinger would be confused about where you stand on that one.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Hello? Hello??? Did you mean 'Allo, 'Allo, the successful BBC comedy which ran for 9 series between 1982 and 1992 with a revival in 2007? 

yes

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

How am I equating them? And what difference does it make if they are equatable? Get a grip woman. So the acceptability of playing the part of someone from a different race is dependent on the status of the person you are playing?

 

What is your point exactly? It’s ok for white people to play the role of bad black people but not good black people? Or black people can only play the part of bad white people? 

 

A white guy can play John Allen Muhammad but not Muhammad Ali?

 

You’re tying yourself in knots again. You’re going all Sturgeon on us. You might want to see how that worked out for her. 

 

Let’s be honest, what you are really saying is that it’s ok for black actors to play white roles but not vice versa. You perfectly embody the hypocrisy of the left once again. Well done.

I’ve explained why race is central to the lives and any portrayal of the lives of MLK and Mohammed Ali, and why issues of race is not any part of the life of Anne Boleyn.

 

Refer above.

[RuamRudy]

36 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

yes

Then your memory of it's history is as unreliable as your memory of it's name. 

 

It successfully completed 9 seasons, coming to a natural conclusion without any controversy. Since then it has been celebrated on the BBC in 2007. To say it was taken off the air because of its format is factually incorrect.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Then your memory of it's history is as unreliable as your memory of it's name. 

 

It successfully completed 9 seasons, coming to a natural conclusion without any controversy. Since then it has been celebrated on the BBC in 2007. To say it was taken off the air because of its format is factually incorrect.

It has not been shown since and will not be shown again   2007 was "Pre woke"

[VocalNeal]

He's no longer in the 95th Rifles????

[JonnyF]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve explained why race is central to the lives and any portrayal of the lives of MLK and Mohammed Ali, and why issues of race is not any part of the life of Anne Boleyn.

 

Refer above.

So you’d support Tom Cruise playing Michael Jordan? Or can you work race into his story as well ?

 

It seems you think race is integral to every black persons story. That’s identity politics I guess. incredibly divisive but a staple of the Wokerati diet.

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

So you’d support Tom Cruise playing Michael Jordan? Or can you work race into his story as well ?

 

It seems you think race is integral to every black persons story. That’s identity politics I guess. 

Let’s just examine this for a moment.

 

”So you’d support Tom Cruise playing Michael Jordan?”

 

Not the topic of discussion, not even anything I’ve ever expressed an opinion on.

 

“Or can you work race into his story as well ?”

 

Erm what?

 

“It seems you think race is integral to every black persons story.”

 

Now you are back to imagining the opinions on behalf of others then asserting that they hold the opinions you have imagined.

 

“That’s identity politics I guess.”

 

No, that’s you making up views on behalf of other people.

 

“incredibly divisive but a staple of the Wokerati diet.”

 

A bit of a poor diet given the content of your post here comprises nothing but your own imaginings.

 

I suggest you argue with what people have actually said and not what you imagine they have said. You are in truth arguing with yourself.

 

It’s not a good look.

[JonnyF]

16 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s just examine this for a moment.

 

”So you’d support Tom Cruise playing Michael Jordan?”

 

Not the topic of discussion, not even anything I’ve ever expressed an opinion on.

 

“Or can you work race into his story as well ?”

 

Erm what?

 

“It seems you think race is integral to every black persons story.”

 

Now you are back to imagining the opinions on behalf of others then asserting that they hold the opinions you have imagined.

 

“That’s identity politics I guess.”

 

No, that’s you making up views on behalf of other people.

 

“incredibly divisive but a staple of the Wokerati diet.”

 

A bit of a poor diet given the content of your post here comprises nothing but your own imaginings.

 

I suggest you argue with what people have actually said and not what you imagine they have said. You are in truth arguing with yourself.

 

It’s not a good look.

Stop wriggling.

 

Do you support the roles of black historical figures being taken by white actors in the same way that you support the roles of white historical figures being taken by black actors?

 

It's a simple question. Yes or No. You either support racial equality or you don't. 

[Denim]

On 4/29/2023 at 8:29 PM, RuamRudy said:

Is there a particular gay actor who camps up a straight figure from history?

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Denim

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

Fair enough, although two points - it was scripted and filmed as a farce so the mannerisms were intended, and it was made pre-2007, the year we all (apparently) became infected with wokism. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Stop wriggling.

 

Do you support the roles of black historical figures being taken by white actors in the same way that you support the roles of white historical figures being taken by black actors?

 

It's a simple question. Yes or No. You either support racial equality or you don't. 

If the race of the person being portrayed has no bearing on their life story then I don’t care who plays who.

 

But examples you chose, MLK and Mohammed Ali are evidently race specific historical characters.

 

That you chose these in juxtaposition to Anne Boleyn reveals a level of unbelievable ignorance.

 

I myself think it wasn’t ignorance but that other thing that causes some folk to get rather irrational and irate over matters of race.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[RayC]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

 

Brian Oulton was gay?!????

 

"Infamy, infamy; they've all got it in for me!"

[JonnyF]

On 4/30/2023 at 11:58 PM, Bday Prang said:

          So why was it published in the first place???? An accident? Somebody just sneaked it in under the editors nose? , Anybody been disciplined? of course not.

              It totally reflects their editorial standards, it was authorised and approved at the highest level,  it was put out there deliberately to advertise  exactly what they stand for. Of course they new they would have to pull it eventually , but by the time they decided to remove it  with the usual meaningless and insincere apology, they had achieved their objective.  It cannot be "unseen".

              A bit like when a barrister lets slip a piece of inadmissible evidence and the judge instructs the jury to disregard it, they can never truly do that.

               Its akin to a journalistic intentional professional foul and they will have no regrets whatsoever

 

I wouldn't expect any better from The Guardian.

 

Anti-Semitism is rife in left wing politics and left wing media alike. Disgraceful.

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If the race of the person being portrayed has no bearing on their life story then I don’t care who plays who.

 

But examples you chose, MLK and Mohammed Ali are evidently race specific historical characters.

 

That you chose these in juxtaposition to Anne Boleyn reveals a level of unbelievable ignorance.

 

I myself think it wasn’t ignorance but that other thing that causes some folk to get rather irrational and irate over matters of race.

 

 

 

What other thing? I hope you are not implying what you seem to be implying. If you think it then say it, but you better have some evidence to back it up. 

[Bday Prang]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Fair enough, although two points - it was scripted and filmed as a farce so the mannerisms were intended, and it was made pre-2007, the year we all (apparently) became infected with wokism. 

I did not say wokery started in 2007.    I said 2007 was pre woke, which it was . I don't know when  wokery started 

[Bday Prang]

30 minutes ago, RayC said:

Brian Oulton was gay?!????

 

"Infamy, infamy; they've all got it in for me!"

And Kenneth Williams too???  I just thought he was a  (very)  good actor,   I'm speechless 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

What other thing? I hope you are not implying what you seem to be implying. If you think it then say it, but you better have some evidence to back it up. 

I tend to read the posts of regular contributors ‘in the whole’, it helps with spotting patterns in their thinking.

 

The Venn diagram of certain views, frequently expressed by some, approaches that of a unitary circle.

 

If I might give some examples:

 

People who accept the anthropomorphic climate change thesis, also tend to be pro-vaccine, pro-choice, pro-immigration, anti-trickledown economics, pro-LGBTQ rights.

 

When it comes to some other issues, for instance around the examples you have chosen as the basis of your argument, a whole different ‘unitary circle’ reveals itself.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I did not say wokery started in 2007.    I said 2007 was pre woke, which it was . I don't know when  wokery started 

It started in a rightwing political strategy meeting.

 

The rightwing invented it.

[Bday Prang]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If the race of the person being portrayed has no bearing on their life story then I don’t care who plays who.

 

But examples you chose, MLK and Mohammed Ali are evidently race specific historical characters.

 

That you chose these in juxtaposition to Anne Boleyn reveals a level of unbelievable ignorance.

 

I myself think it wasn’t ignorance but that other thing that causes some folk to get rather irrational and irate over matters of race.

 

 

 

              

           There are three very good reasons why a white actor could never play the role of Ali 

1)   It would just look wrong

2)  It would detract from realism

3) How could a white actor mimic the body language and posturing  not to mention the speech ! of a flamboyant black man like Ali without offending just about every other black person on the planet and every white snowflake on social media ?

 

         As far as black actress Anne Boleyn is concerned reasons one and two apply  as above, however reason  three no longer applies, as regardless of Anne's personality nobody would be offended at a black persons attempt to mimic a white person, 

          But it must take a certain kind of personality for a black actress to apply specifically to play the role of a white historical British woman , and a certain kind of mindset for a film director or whoever is responsible for that side of things to "genuinely believe" that the black actress they select really  can play the role of a white woman better than any of the other white women who attended the casting auditions  Neither being concerned that due to the genre of film in question  that anyone would see her merely as a "token black"  Must be a hell of a story line 

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I tend to read the posts of regular contributors ‘in the whole’, it helps with spotting patterns in their thinking.

 

The Venn diagram of certain views, frequently expressed by some, approaches that of a unitary circle.

 

If I might give some examples:

 

People who accept the anthropomorphic climate change thesis, also tend to be pro-vaccine, pro-choice, pro-immigration, anti-trickledown economics, pro-LGBTQ rights.

 

When it comes to some other issues, for instance around the examples you have chosen as the basis of your argument, a whole different ‘unitary circle’ reveals itself.

 

 

That looks to me like just  one example,  and one  insinuation

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It started in a rightwing political strategy meeting.

 

The rightwing invented it.

         hmm wokeness , wokery or whatever we are calling it

     It's not exactly an invention, it's a more of a development, a journey as they like to say, leading to some sort of "enlightenment" albeit delusional

                The journey I think traditionally started in the bowels of the sociology departments of those relatively new universities, were graduation was guaranteed and  whose sole purpose was to keep the less academically gifted undergraduate students off the benefits system until they were considered fit for mcdonalds or become full time whingers/ activists. or sociology lecturers themselves (sometimes both)  It also ensured that the less gifted (but unsackable) left leaning existing  lecturers were never short of work

                 I'm not sure when this began, probably towards the end of the Blair years, but it was pretty much almost a secret underground exclusive club, bit like swingers clubs   until social media made it available to all wasters, and enabled it to spread like a cancer throughout the more "vulnerable " members of society

  To suggest the rightwing were responsible for it ,  is a serious piece of lateral thinking, but you may well be correct, nothing surprises me anymore. however I don't think any of the "right"  posses the intelectual clout to conceive such a brilliant scam.   maybe Dominic Cummings could have managed it but it was a bit before his time

                 Just out of interest do you agree with various classic works of literature being "re written" to avoid causing offence to the oversensitive?  bearing in mind that very very few if any are actually genuinely offended it's all about getting "likes" on social media and trying to fit in with their permanently offended peers

                  What if somebody actually is offended, who really gives a <deleted>. 

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

         hmm wokeness , wokery or whatever we are calling it

     It's not exactly an invention, it's a more of a development, a journey as they like to say, leading to some sort of "enlightenment" albeit delusional

                The journey I think traditionally started in the bowels of the sociology departments of those relatively new universities, were graduation was guaranteed and  whose sole purpose was to keep the less academically gifted undergraduate students off the benefits system until they were considered fit for mcdonalds or become full time whingers/ activists. or sociology lecturers themselves (sometimes both)  It also ensured that the less gifted (but unsackable) left leaning existing  lecturers were never short of work

                 I'm not sure when this began, probably towards the end of the Blair years, but it was pretty much almost a secret underground exclusive club, bit like swingers clubs   until social media made it available to all wasters, and enabled it to spread like a cancer throughout the more "vulnerable " members of society

  To suggest the rightwing were responsible for it ,  is a serious piece of lateral thinking, but you may well be correct, nothing surprises me anymore. however I don't think any of the "right"  posses the intelectual clout to conceive such a brilliant scam.   maybe Dominic Cummings could have managed it but it was a bit before his time

                 Just out of interest do you agree with various classic works of literature being "re written" to avoid causing offence to the oversensitive?  bearing in mind that very very few if any are actually genuinely offended it's all about getting "likes" on social media and trying to fit in with their permanently offended peers

                  What if somebody actually is offended, who really gives a <deleted>. 

My what a lot of unsubstantiated assertions, assumptions and guess work.

[Bday Prang]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My what a lot of unsubstantiated assertions, assumptions and guess work.

then I'll take the fact that you bothered with such a comprehensive reply as a compliment

Edited May 2, 2023 by Bday Prang

[Bday Prang]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:01 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve explained why race is central to the lives and any portrayal of the lives of MLK and Mohammed Ali, and why issues of race is not any part of the life of Anne Boleyn.

 

Refer above.

It was probably a significant  part of her life. and no doubt of some importance to her father and a matter of relief for her mother that she was white

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

It was probably a significant  part of her life. and no doubt of some importance to her father and a matter of relief for her mother that she was white

Another one of those unsubstantiated probably things.

 

[JonnyF]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I tend to read the posts of regular contributors ‘in the whole’, it helps with spotting patterns in their thinking.

 

The Venn diagram of certain views, frequently expressed by some, approaches that of a unitary circle.

 

If I might give some examples:

 

People who accept the anthropomorphic climate change thesis, also tend to be pro-vaccine, pro-choice, pro-immigration, anti-trickledown economics, pro-LGBTQ rights.

 

When it comes to some other issues, for instance around the examples you have chosen as the basis of your argument, a whole different ‘unitary circle’ reveals itself.

 

 

In other words, no evidence of anything.

 

You've got nothing.

[Dionigi]

On 4/29/2023 at 5:15 PM, RuamRudy said:

Because the gays and the coloured people don't exist in the real world?

Looking at Great Expectations I doubt that there were many black lawyers even in London during Dickens times. Estella was not black in the book and there is no reason for her to be black in the series except to pander to someones view of diversity.

[RuamRudy]

24 minutes ago, Dionigi said:

Looking at Great Expectations I doubt that there were many black lawyers even in London during Dickens times. Estella was not black in the book and there is no reason for her to be black in the series except to pander to someones view of diversity.

I think now we are getting to the nub of the issue - are you talking about a piece of artistic effort, or easily digestible fodder for those more literal viewers. Do you want an historical re-enactment or something more artistically challenging?

The world is surely big enough to allow both to exist without having to deride one or the other? 

 

(I am not sure why that sentence in the middle is in bold font - not intentional)

Edited May 4, 2023 by RuamRudy

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Dionigi said:

Looking at Great Expectations I doubt that there were many black lawyers even in London during Dickens times. Estella was not black in the book and there is no reason for her to be black in the series except to pander to someones view of diversity.

I’ve read Great Expectations, I don’t recall the race of any of the protagonists therein being mentioned.