Thai Expert Explains High Electricity Bills in Thailand

[asf6]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

cost of a 2000 mw nuclear power station. thailand

 

Advanced nuclear reactors are estimated to cost $5,366 for every kilowatt of capacity. That means a large 1-gigawatt reactor would cost around $5.4 billion to build, excluding financing costs.

 

A 2000 MW nuclear power station using those figures would cost around 1 billion $USD,  or a minimum of 34 billion baht, excluding financing costs.

* I will assume you meant 200 MW rather than 2000 MW. 

 

* I will also assume you meant only construction costs rather than the total cost of producing the electricity. [You forgot to attribute a source of your estimated figures. I have attached one below.]

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11132930/nuclear-power-costs-us-france-korea

 

But using the figures you provided, here's a bit of maths for construction costs per unit of electricity.

 

34 billion (baht) ÷ 200,000 (kw) ÷ 365 (days) ÷ 24 (hours) ÷ 30 (years) = 0.646 baht per unit.

 

* I have used a figure of 30 years for the lifetime of the reactor because the IAEA says that "Most nuclear power plants have operating life- times of between 20 and 40 years." )

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/29402043133.pdf

[Freddy42OZ]

17 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

An article in a newspaper is one thing. Seeing solar panels on houses across the country is another. I don't think solar power to the masses will be allowed for the masses anytime soon. The products are not plentiful and are overpriced. 

I see solar all over the place in Bangkok.  Loads of houses have them on their roofs. 

Bangkok also has some solar powered street lighting. 
 

[Dart12]

On 5/1/2023 at 3:47 PM, Dazinoz said:

Really find it hard to see how your bill doubled with no extra usage.

 

My bill doubled almost to the baht but my usage went fro 268 to 440 units which is 1.64 times usage to last bill.

 

Also the discount on the last bill was 180 baht which has been removed from this bill. I think a lot of people overlook that the discount was removed.

It's an annoyance to me... 

 

But to Thai people... This is banding them together it seems.

 

This huge increase HURT them.

 

See Convo with building manager below

[Doctor Tom]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:47 AM, Bim Smith said:

If the last three years have taught me anything is that as soon as the word "expert"

Definition of an Expert ; 'Ex' meaning a has been; 'spert', (sic)  a large drip

[Dazinoz]

17 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

It's an annoyance to me... 

 

But to Thai people... This is banding them together it seems.

 

This huge increase HURT them.

 

See Convo with building manager below

My march bill the flat rate charge was 3.68/baht a unit. This month was 3.91/baht a unit. Definitely not double.

 

I did go from268 units to 440 units and the discount of 180 baht for units used in March is now gone off April Bill.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, sidneybear said:

I'm not disputing what you say about traditional nuclear technology, although if 1 GW capacity costs 5.4 billion, then wouldn't a 2,000MW plant (=2GW) cost 10.8 billion instead of 1 billion? In any case, the cost to build is only part of the equation, you'd also need to factor in the operating cost over the lifetime of the reactor to arrive at an overall cost per MWh of electricity generated, and then take into consideration the potential of future carbon pricing and the like. Recent advances like small nuclear reactors, that are serviced in a central location, and the like, are also worth looking at.

 

Nuclear is reliable, produces no CO2, and doesn't require flooding vast expanses of land in Laos. It also means that Thailand wouldn't be beholden to Laos for its electricity supply, given the vicissitudes of geopolitics.  

 

Sadly Thailand is already beholden to buy electricity from the latest dam built with Thai money, as well as existing contracts with private power producers in Thailand, though to be fair, IF a nuclear power plant was built, it would juxt about be ready in time for the existing contracts to run out, assuming that it was started this year.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Pink Mist
Off topic reply and quoted post edited

[sidneybear]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Sadly Thailand is already beholden to buy electricity from the latest dam built with Thai money, as well as existing contracts with private power producers in Thailand, though to be fair, IF a nuclear power plant was built, it would juxt about be ready in time for the existing contracts to run out, assuming that it was started this year.

 

I had a very happy 2 1/2 years at RAF West Raynham near Fakenham in Norfolk during 1966 to 1968 including 2 trips to Germany, 2 to Norway, 4 trips to El Adem in Libya and 3 months in Gibraltar.

Nice. I grew up a few miles south east of there in Watton, the site of another RAF base and Eastern Radar. Happy memories. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

I don't know who EGAT is (Damn abbreviations!) but reading between the lines, that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest! 

EGAT = Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand.

MEA = Metropolitan Electricity Authority = Bangkok

PEA = Provincial Electricity Authority = rural areas

[billd766]

2 hours ago, asf6 said:

* I will assume you meant 200 MW rather than 2000 MW. 

 

* I will also assume you meant only construction costs rather than the total cost of producing the electricity. [You forgot to attribute a source of your estimated figures. I have attached one below.]

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11132930/nuclear-power-costs-us-france-korea

 

But using the figures you provided, here's a bit of maths for construction costs per unit of electricity.

 

34 billion (baht) ÷ 200,000 (kw) ÷ 365 (days) ÷ 24 (hours) ÷ 30 (years) = 0.646 baht per unit.

 

* I have used a figure of 30 years for the lifetime of the reactor because the IAEA says that "Most nuclear power plants have operating life- times of between 20 and 40 years." )

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/29402043133.pdf

It was 2,000 MW in reference to another poster and not 200 MW.

 

After 30 years in operation there will also be fairly large de installation costs. You could check with Germany and the UK for them and scale it to fit.

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Nice. I grew up a few miles south east of there in Watton, the site of another RAF base and Eastern Radar. Happy memories. 

West Raynham is now the site of one of the largest solar farm in the UK I believe.

 

Somebody bought the entire airfield, rented out most of the buildings and hangars, ripped up the runway and built the solar farm. If you look up RAF West Raynham you can see the solar panels clearly..

[sambum]

21 minutes ago, billd766 said:

EGAT = Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand.

MEA = Metropolitan Electricity Authority = Bangkok

PEA = Provincial Electricity Authority = rural areas

Thank you, but why don't people use the full name at the company when they first use it at start of their post, and then use abbreviations if they repeat the name later? We're not all completely up to date with all these companies and names and some of the only ones I've become familiar with due to common usage are BIB, TAT and TIT!

[asf6]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It was 2,000 MW in reference to another poster and not 200 MW.

2,000 MW is 2 GW. In your earlier post you said that a  1-gigawatt reactor would cost around $5.4 billion to build, excluding financing costs, but a 2000 MW nuclear power station using those figures would cost around 1 billion. 

 

Would a nuclear power station twice the capacity really be only a fifth of the price? 

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, sambum said:

Thank you, but why don't people use the full name at the company when they first use it at start of their post, and then use abbreviations if they repeat the name later? We're not all completely up to date with all these companies and names and some of the only ones I've become familiar with due to common usage are BIB, TAT and TIT!

Over the years I have picked up a few and remember the ones I use frequently like banks etc.

 

If I get stuck on one, I generally copy and paste it to an internet search.

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, asf6 said:

2,000 MW is 2 GW. In your earlier post you said that a  1-gigawatt reactor would cost around $5.4 billion to build, excluding financing costs, but a 2000 MW nuclear power station using those figures would cost around 1 billion. 

 

Would a nuclear power station twice the capacity really be only a fifth of the price? 

Sorry. I must have gone brain dead for a while.

 

Those prices are the average prices in the USA. 

 

In Thailand the price is anybody's guess depending on how much would be corrupted and by how many.

[Pink Mist]

Reported off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[chilli42]

On 5/1/2023 at 1:31 PM, happydreamer said:

Exactly.  Was just getting ready to respond with this same explanation.  The utility will always trail the actual market prices.  We saw breaks in price action in march of 22 but the actual fuel prices didn't come down till June.

Well then, I look forward to the reduction in my electric bill in the coming months.

[Pedrogaz]

Silly me.....and here was me, thinking that the rise in electricity prices was due to an increase in the cost of the fuels used to generate electricity. Glad we have such in-depth experts who can tell us that it was the hot weather that caused the increase. I'll pay my bill more quickly now that I know it is my fault.

[TimeMachine]

22 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

I see solar all over the place in Bangkok.  Loads of houses have them on their roofs. 

Bangkok also has some solar powered street lighting. 
 

Getting onto Google maps satellite View shows that Bangkok is lacking in using solar. Compared to my home town in oz where in maps you can actually see the black panels are on the roofs of every 10th house on average. 

[jacko45k]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:15 PM, kingoak said:

I have been waiting since July last year to get PEA to connect my Solar Installation to the Grid. Really how long should it take to get this completed?? I am sure it would reduce the demand on the Grid but cant get any action even with the assistance of the Installer. One would think that they would be placing urgency on this to assist the grid but TIT.

Does your hardware include the controls to prevent back feed when the line upstream is isolated? 

[Dazinoz]

On 5/3/2023 at 1:43 PM, Pedrogaz said:

Silly me.....and here was me, thinking that the rise in electricity prices was due to an increase in the cost of the fuels used to generate electricity. Glad we have such in-depth experts who can tell us that it was the hot weather that caused the increase. I'll pay my bill more quickly now that I know it is my fault.

My bill literally double this month mostly because of use due to the extra use of air conditioners due to, funnily , the HOT weather.

 

The ft component was exactly the same as previous account. The base rate was a little higher. See what the ft is below.

 

This screen cap comes from:-

 

https://www.mea.or.th/en/content/detail/2985/2987/484#:~:text=Ft is variable tariff or,Automatic Tariff Adjustment Mechanism formula.

 

[Zack61]

On 5/1/2023 at 2:13 PM, sezze said:

Reduces evaporation ? no it does not , solar panels are hotter then water surface , creating hotter surface water temp , creating more evaporation .There are advantages putting solar panels on water , like the colder cell temp makes higher power production . However there are also many downsides , like oxygen production is way higher from algae living on water surface then any tree on the planet . 

 

It would depend on how high above the water surface the cells are set and how much insulation on the underside of each of the panels to reduce the radiated heat. The cells for sure will provide a constant source of shade but I'm not sure that your argument about heat transfer is entirely correct as the factors I have mentioned could come into play.

[Danderman123]

On 5/1/2023 at 7:49 AM, ikke1959 said:

Of course they have an explanation that doesn't hold...Ukraine/ Russian war, did rise the the fuel prices indeed, but in the western news these prices are almost back to normal again.

In the hot weather indeed the airco and fridges have to work harder to keep things cool and that will cost more energy. But where is the solar energy which is free with so much sunshine, and wind energy in Thailand? and why is that not more promoted?? I am willing to put solar panels on my roof, but where can you find good information and installation companies??

In my opinion it is the greed of the electricity companies who raising prices for bigger profits and use excuses for nothing and surely are not happy if many people change to green energy. 

I have a north facing condo, so installing solar is a challenge.  Neverthless, I have 1,000 watts installed, which help to lower my electric bill and feed batteries which provide some power when the electric fails (not so uncommon).

[Danderman123]

On 5/4/2023 at 8:37 AM, jacko45k said:

Does your hardware include the controls to prevent back feed when the line upstream is isolated? 

The technical term for this is "islanding" and its a standard feature on all grid tie inverters.

[Dazinoz]

40 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The technical term for this is "islanding" and its a standard feature on all grid tie inverters.

Actually called anti-islanding.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Actually called anti-islanding.

Yeah, would hate to think I was running my neighbour's fridge and keeping his beer cold during a power cut!

[BritManToo]

On 5/2/2023 at 6:48 PM, asf6 said:

2,000 MW is 2 GW. In your earlier post you said that a  1-gigawatt reactor would cost around $5.4 billion to build, excluding financing costs, but a 2000 MW nuclear power station using those figures would cost around 1 billion. 

 

Would a nuclear power station twice the capacity really be only a fifth of the price? 

And staffing costs .........

Green energy requires between 10x to 100x the manpower/staffing to produce than coal/oil generated. 

 

When people ask why is electricity in Thailand a fraction of the cost of electricity in the west, the answer is green power costs a lot more (x10) to produce.

Edited May 7, 2023 by BritManToo

[Dazinoz]

35 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yeah, would hate to think I was running my neighbour's fridge and keeping his beer cold during a power cut!

What's that got to do with terminology?

Edited May 7, 2023 by Dazinoz

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

Actually called anti-islanding.

You are correct.

 

But, most people use the term "islanding".

 

 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

And staffing costs .........

Green energy requires between 10x to 100x the manpower/staffing to produce than coal/oil generated. 

 

I think you made that up.

 

Describe the staffing required for a utility scale solar facility, after construction. I'll give you a hint: security and a guy to clean the panels once in a while.

[TimeMachine]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

And staffing costs .........

Green energy requires between 10x to 100x the manpower/staffing to produce than coal/oil generated. 

 

When people ask why is electricity in Thailand a fraction of the cost of electricity in the west, the answer is green power costs a lot more (x10) to produce.

Unfortunately when the topic of power is discussed the main hidden focus is how it can still be monitised by the powers that be. A homeowner can install solar panels on their roof with a simple inverter without even considering the battery issues. It is not difficult but you do need a bit of skill in choosing price reduced and reliable equipment.  Free power with payback period of a few years.  This situation is not being followed because of the fightback from power companies. They would rather everyone be miserable. So production and distribution of solar panels is stifled while negativity about green energy is pushed.