Fake Driving License Scam Still a Major Issue on Facebook in Thailand

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, NextG said:

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why not stop telling other members how to post?

???? No doubt you missed the irony of your post ????

No doubt you missed the irony of your post

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Yes... There in ’some cases’ with a Visa Agent there is an element of ‘corruption’ involved...   i.e. the Visa Agents have strong connections in Immigration who circumnavigate a regulation here or there (i.e. the Immigration officer / contact allows the Visa Agent to use their funds as proof of the seasoned 400,000 baht or 800,000 baht etc).... 

 

..... BUT... the Visa they Issue is still a Legally recognised Visa issued by an Immigration Office, there is a digital record of the Visa and it passes scrutiny. 

 

On the other Hand the Driving license Scam is a Scam... either those running the scam and calling themselves agents take the money and run, or issue a completely fake card. 

 

Its completely different.... and yes... its apparent in your ‘black and white’ world you are still really struggling with the ‘grey’ area within which much of Thailand operates. 

 

Not struggling. 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To stimulate discussion and expose hypocrisy.

You’re stimulating exasperation !!!....    

 

OK.. so you do understand what is going on... And yes, I get your point... 

 

In a Black & White world, obtaining a Visa through Agents who use their connection to circumnativate a regulation or two to provide a Valid Visa is the ‘wrong side of the line’.... 

The Driving Licence Scammers are also on the ‘wrong side of the line’....

 

But.. one operates in a ‘grey’ area and the product issued is legally recognised. 

The other is a 100% scam where people run off with your money or issue a card which is not legally recognised.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not struggling. 

Clearly you are...  You’re trying to shoe-horn your ‘black and white’ understanding of the world into the Grey area within which much of Thailand operates. 

 

 

 

[NextG]

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No doubt you missed the irony of your post

Yes, I did. Explain it to me ????

[NextG]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Clearly you are...  You’re trying to shoe-horn your ‘black and white’ understanding of the world into the Grey area within which much of Thailand operates. 

 

 

 

No, he’s just trying to ‘suss’ out whether he should get one or not. It’s obvious. 

[WHansen]

@richard_smith237   You have the patience of a saint sir

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, rabiedabruce said:

Well this one's easy, if you're not required to actually attend the DVL then it's a 'scam'. How stupid are some people. Rhetorical.

Just like those scams where people get a visa by not having to go to immigration. 

 

Pot kettle black.

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Yes... There in ’some cases’ with a Visa Agent there is an element of ‘corruption’ involved...   i.e. the Visa Agents have strong connections in Immigration who circumnavigate a regulation here or there (i.e. the Immigration officer / contact allows the Visa Agent to use their funds as proof of the seasoned 400,000 baht or 800,000 baht etc).... 

'Some' cases lol, don't be so naive. 

 

95% of Visa agents DIRECTLY bribe immigration officers to get a visa for the foreigner that doesn't qualify for it. 

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Clearly you are...  You’re trying to shoe-horn your ‘black and white’ understanding of the world into the Grey area within which much of Thailand operates. 

 

 

 

Stop mansplaining what I am or what my world view is.. It is both wrong and massively obnoxious. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

You're really struggling with this one eh... 

 

Again...   This is not similar to Visa agents.... There are companies (agents) that assist you through the driving licence process to obtain a legal DL, in much the same manner Visa agents will assist you though the visa process and in some cases circumnavigate a few regulations to obtain a legal Visa. 

 

The report (OP) suggests something different - People issuing completely Fake Licences. 

If you want to make a Visa comparison, it would be like someone counterfeiting Visa stamps in your passport. 

 'circumventing' immigration requirements is WORSE than getting a fake DL. 

Just because there is a visa in the passport doesn't make it valid. Bent immigration officers sometimes don't do anything as they can see it is their corrupt colleagues who have given the FAKE visa. 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 'circumventing' immigration requirements is WORSE than getting a fake DL. 

Just because there is a visa in the passport doesn't make it valid. Bent immigration officers sometimes don't do anything as they can see it is their corrupt colleagues who have given the FAKE visa. 

Perhaps so....   ‘Worse’ is just your opinion of where this practice sits in your eyes on the scale of right and wrong.

 

The point remains the end product issued is a Visa that is accepted by the authorities. 

 

Meanwhile the scam being discussed involves people running away with the money, or issuing a completely fake card licence.  

 

Where either of those sit on your moral compass is an individual opinion. 

 

Personally, I see the ‘bending of regulations’ or ‘circumnavigation of regulations’ so that a father can remain in Thailand with his family somewhere on the ’sliding grey area scale’ rather than an abominable crime. 

 

I actually find it quite abominable that a family don’t have an automatic legal right to be together whatever their status (that can be said of the UK too).

 

Meanwhile, issuing someone with a fake license so that they can drive a motorised vehicle amongst others is worse, in my Opinion...   However, the reality is that the driving licence process is so flawed there is little difference between licences drivers and unlicensed drivers anyway (but thats a different debate). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

55 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Personally, I see the ‘bending of regulations’ or ‘circumnavigation of regulations’ so that a father can remain in Thailand with his family somewhere on the ’sliding grey area scale’ rather than an abominable crime. 

 

I actually find it quite abominable that a family don’t have an automatic legal right to be together whatever their status (that can be said of the UK too).

So if you disagree with a countries' immigration requirements, it's OK to break the law?

I see your point but I quite like Thailand's immigration policy, compared to my home country, UK. 

I'm sure there are some unfortunate cases but if you have a law that those foreigners married to Thais can buy land, or those who have a kid can get a long-term visa, this would be abused and was abused hence the regulations. 

Visa agents don't care, anyway about the person's circumstances, they are low-lifes, well apart from the ones that get your documents in order and maybe hold your hand in immigration for 1,000 baht or so. 

Old Bert from Blackpool wants to live in Soi Bukhao for ever but gets 29,000 baht a month govt pension, and nothing to offer Thailand, so he can't get a yearly visa. He toddles down to the visa agent and pays 20k to bypass regulations. Is this OK in your book? Do hou know how difficult these kind of guys makes it for the law-abiding retirees in Pattaya?

 

What about Houston Hank, if he does the same to be able to retire in Bangkok, is this OK, when I, as  Thai, have to invest $500,000 to retire in Houston?

I can't see any grey scale, there is a law. Would it be OK if I paid an agent in the US so I didn't have to invest the $1/2 million? 

Frankly, they should make it harder for Yanks to get a visa here, some kind of reciprocation. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Meanwhile, issuing someone with a fake license so that they can drive a motorised vehicle amongst others is worse, in my Opinion...   However, the reality is that the driving licence process is so flawed there is little difference between licences drivers and unlicensed drivers anyway (but thats a different debate). 

Don't places like ID Driver basically give a DL for 5,000 baht? 

I know they make you do the test but you can't fail.

[Neeranam]

https://www.iddriver.com/

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Don't places like ID Driver basically give a DL for 5,000 baht? 

I know they make you do the test but you can't fail.

If this is as you suggest, then no they don't give you a DL for 5000 baht...  

The DLT gives you the ‘legal' licence.... 

 

[EVENKEEL]

So, a friend paid 4500 thb to a service. They took a van full of people to a different province, walked them through the process, held their hand for the written tests, came home with a license.

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So if you disagree with a countries' immigration requirements, it's OK to break the law?

Who’s breaking the Law ???... It seems to me that it's the immigration officers themselves doing the law breaking. 

 

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I see your point but I quite like Thailand's immigration policy, compared to my home country, UK. 

Of course you do... You are on the ‘easy’ side of things having gained citizenship..... So am I with life long back to back visa’s (Thai Elite). 

 

That doesn’t mean I am not sympathetic to those who aren’t in similar situations yet want to stay with their family.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I'm sure there are some unfortunate cases but if you have a law that those foreigners married to Thais can buy land, or those who have a kid can get a long-term visa, this would be abused and was abused hence the regulations. 

Land is a different topic (I’ve no genuine complaint about that). 

As for your other comment, I disagree, I dont believe in putting stumbling blocks in front of families from being able to stay together. 

Why are people so frightened of people abusing a system than they are of helping those whom the system is failing ???

 

 

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Visa agents don't care, anyway about the person's circumstances, they are low-lifes, well apart from the ones that get your documents in order and maybe hold your hand in immigration for 1,000 baht or so. 

Old Bert from Blackpool wants to live in Soi Bukhao for ever but gets 29,000 baht a month govt pension, and nothing to offer Thailand, so he can't get a yearly visa. He toddles down to the visa agent and pays 20k to bypass regulations. Is this OK in your book? Do hou know how difficult these kind of guys makes it for the law-abiding retirees in Pattaya?

Again... judgemental... How about Bert from Blackpool moved here, then fell foul of diminishing exchange rates and his pension not increasing in interest because he’s overseas....  He does whatever he can to stay here, he’s harming no one - you are accusing him of not being a law abiding retiree in a very black and white manner....  

 

And no... I don't believe this makes it harder for others, their process doesn’t alter. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What about Houston Hank, if he does the same to be able to retire in Bangkok, is this OK, when I, as  Thai, have to invest $500,000 to retire in Houston?

Yes, because he cost of living is quite different.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I can't see any grey scale, there is a law. Would it be OK if I paid an agent in the US so I didn't have to invest the $1/2 million? 

Frankly, they should make it harder for Yanks to get a visa here, some kind of reciprocation. 

You want reciprocity... OK... give married guys permanent residency with a route to citizenship so they don't have to jump through visa hoops and can also receive health care in their old age here (instead of having to pay extortionate insurance premiums or face double pricing at a hospital). 

(and no, although you have citizenship, not everyone can because they don't work here)

 

You see Neeranam.. like or not, there is a grey area to these things and that grey area is not created by the Westerners you are proportioning with the blame of undertaking illegal activity in security and illicit visa.... the Grey area is created by the very Thai’s running the show !.... 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, a friend paid 4500 thb to a service. They took a van full of people to a different province, walked them through the process, held their hand for the written tests, came home with a license.

This is no scam, just corruption.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Who’s breaking the Law ???... It seems to me that it's the immigration officers themselves doing the law breaking. 

There are 3 people breaking the law -  foreigner, agent, IO

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, a friend paid 4500 thb to a service. They took a van full of people to a different province, walked them through the process, held their hand for the written tests, came home with a license.

Which is completely difference to the Op.

 

Now.. IF your friend had paid 4500 Baht to a ‘service’ (posing as a Driving licence agent) and they disappeared with the money...   this is the ‘scam’ being discussed (in the OP).... 

 

OR.. IF your friend had paid 4500 Baht to a ‘service’ (posing as a Driving licence agent) and they did nothing other than give him a fake card...   this is the ‘scam’ being discussed (in the OP).... 

 

 

Conversely, your friend was ‘walked through’ the legal process and received his DL legally.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, a friend paid 4500 thb to a service. They took a van full of people to a different province, walked them through the process, held their hand for the written tests, came home with a license.

This is no scam, just corruption.

Is it corruption... Or is it just guidance ?

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

There are 3 people breaking the law -  foreigner, agent, IO

Is foreigner really breaking the law ???

 

Isn’t the roll of the Immigration officer to use their discretion in the decision making process to determine approval of extensions of stay / visa issuance ??

 

If an immigration office deliberately knowingly approves a substandard application, its them and them alone who are breaking the law, no ???

 

... again... grey areas... 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You want reciprocity... OK... give married guys permanent residency with a route to citizenship so they don't have to jump through visa hoops and can also receive health care in their old age here (instead of having to pay extortionate insurance premiums or face double pricing at a hospital). 

(and no, although you have citizenship, not everyone can because they don't work here)

There is one problem with reciprocity here - there is large %age of men that come here and marry peasant girls, many of them sex workers.  Thais don't do this in US/UK etc and the governments there would soon stop it. 

This would be a huge drain on the government health care spending. 

As for single men, they should work to get free health care, and they do. Would any other country give citizenship to men who don't work? Thailand's route to citizenship is easier than most. 

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Is it corruption... Or is it just guidance ?

They give you the answers to computer test. Oh, it's not corruption, I'd say guidance.

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Conversely, your friend was ‘walked through’ the legal process and received his DL legally.

Legally?

 

This is the same as the visa agent. Why the different province?

Because the visa agents do the same, they send the passports to another province where they have a corrupt officer. Pure corruption, I think illegal. 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Neeranam said:

There is one problem with reciprocity here - there is large %age of men that come here and marry peasant girls, many of them sex workers.  Thais don't do this in US/UK etc and the governments there would soon stop it. 

Agreed... they don't do this because there is a significant socio-economic imbalance. 

If Thai’s could, those peasant girls, many of them sex workers would living and plying trade in the US and UK.

 

This is precisely why there is no reciprocity..... 

 

 

 

Just now, Neeranam said:

This would be a huge drain on the government health care spending. 

As for single men, they should work to get free health care, and they do. Would any other country give citizenship to men who don't work?

Yes... Most Western nations do... In the UK a Thai Man married to a British woman can apply for ILR in exactly the same manner a Thai woman married to a British Man can - there requirements are identical... (i.e. Proof of assets and / or income).

 

Just now, Neeranam said:

Thailand's route to citizenship is easier than most. 

It may have been easy for you. 

But, its impossible for those who do not work here.

Conversely my wife could go to the UK with me tomorrow and immediately start the ILR process, legally work and be approved within approximately 7 weeks. 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Is it corruption... Or is it just guidance ?

They give you the answers to computer test. Oh, it's not corruption, I'd say guidance.

Hand holding...  guidance, extremely low level corruption...   all much of a muchness... none of it really has a negative impact on the quality of drivers here until the whole system is ‘overhauled’.

 

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Again... judgemental... How about Bert from Blackpool moved here, then fell foul of diminishing exchange rates and his pension not increasing in interest because he’s overseas....  He does whatever he can to stay here, he’s harming no one

There are different ways to retire, like putting a small amount in the bank for a few months. 

This is only $20,000 if not married. I mentioned earlier, I would have to INVEST $500,000 to do the same in the USA. If I can't afford it, do you think it is OK for me to become an illegal immigrant? Of course not! If Bert hasn't got $20k, he should go elsewhere, or stay in Blackpool.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Legally?

 

This is the same as the visa agent. Why the different province?

Easier for the Agent to obtain a proof of address from Immigration in that Province ???

 

The Driving Licence is still legal...  

 

But, I expect you to argue that in this case the Driving licence itself is completely illegal as it was obtained under false pretences....  

This is where those of a more pedantic nature fail to see the ‘grey area’ in which many things operate in places like Thailand and you argue that something is ‘black or white’ and refuse to see the different shades.

 

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Because the visa agents do the same, they send the passports to another province where they have a corrupt officer. Pure corruption, I think illegal. 

Again...  binary thinking.