On 5/17/2023 at 7:22 PM, candide said:

Not up to the rebirth of a British Empire, but there was great hope that the commonwealth countries would compensate for the loss of some EU trade: “Outside the EU the world is our oyster, and the Commonwealth the pearl within” (UKIP)

Of course, it didn't happen, just like the other promises made or suggested.

Farage never took any responsibility - just a loudmouth.

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘It could have been different’ is not an argument.

It’s a call to fantasy.

 

As I pointed out, it's not an argument.

 

If you believe it to be fantasy, od love to ser conclusive proof that things would not have been different. Remember, as far as you are concerned nothing without a link is worth talking about.

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by youreavinalaff

2 hours ago, RayC said:

It's just as well your comments in this thread aren't being marked. Your grade average would take a massive hit.

On the contrary, we're my comments to be marked, they would be so in a balanced way. Not a biased way as you appear to be suggesting.

 

Anyway, I feel very privileged to have all 3 of you as an audience all at the same time. Shame Ridy is AWOL.

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Always convincing when an anonymous party cites glowing reviews by other anonymous parties of what they've done.

But, unlike some on here, I don't need to lie, exaggerate or belittle others when making comments in an attempt to get a point across.

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

But, unlike some on here, I don't need to lie, exaggerate or belittle others when making comments in an attempt to get a point across.

You really need to get acquainted with the meaning of "churlish"

https://www.google.com/search?q=churlish+definition&oq=churlish+definition&aqs=chrome..69i57.5462j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You really need to get acquainted with the meaning of "churlish"

https://www.google.com/search?q=churlish+definition&oq=churlish+definition&aqs=chrome..69i57.5462j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Churlish has other meanings too. Such as " difficult to work with or discuss with" but, I'm sure you knew that.

38 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

As I pointed out, it's not an argument.

 

If you believe it to be fantasy, od love to ser conclusive proof that things would not have been different. Remember, as far as you are concerned nothing without a link is worth talking about.

I rather like dealing with reality.

 

Not some fantasy of how things might have been different.

 

We have Brexit promises, and the gap between Brexit promises and Brexit reality is factual and observable .

 

We have a leader, arguably the most prominent leader, of Brexit declaring Brexit a failure.

 

Yes I understand precisely why Brexiteers wish to engage in a fantasy of how things might have been different.

 

Brexit is what it is.

 

Brexit failure means Brexit failure.

 

 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by Chomper Higgot

32 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

But, unlike some on here, I don't need to lie, exaggerate or belittle others when making comments in an attempt to get a point across.

Erm….

 

17 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Why not? You love to play kids games. 

 

26 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Churlish has other meanings too. Such as " difficult to work with or discuss with" but, I'm sure you knew that.

A 3rd meaning from one source. And just because you are haviing difficulties with someone, that doesn't necessarily make them churlish. Particularly Ray C. who consistently applies reason and evidence to his arguments. As for your assertions, the thing is, there's plenty of good reasons why Brexit is doomed to fail. A big reason is something called gravity. It's a universal economic fact (apart from a few churlish nations like North Korea) that the 2 most important factors that determine how much trade a country will engage in with other countries are size of their respective economies and geographic distance. The latter factor is a crucial factor what economists call gravity. So all the UK's attempts to  engage in trade pacts with more distant nations, isn't going to make up for what it has lost by leaving the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We have a leader, arguably the most prominent leader, of Brexit declaring Brexit a failure.

For far different reasons than you think it is

 

Let's face it, you and Farage are different ends of the scale.

 

It's funny though that you side with Farage to try to prove a point. 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by youreavinalaff

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

A 3rd meaning from one source. And just because you are haviing difficulties with someone, that doesn't necessarily make them churlish. Particularly Ray C. who consistently applies reason and evidence to his arguments. As for your assertions, the thing is, there's plenty of good reasons why Brexit is doomed to fail. A big reason is something called gravity. It's a universal economic fact (apart from a few churlish nations like North Korea) that the 2 most important factors that determine how much trade a country will engage in with other countries are size of their respective economies and geographic distance. The latter factor is a crucial factor what economists call gravity. So all the UK's attempts to  engage in trade pacts with more distant nations, isn't going to make up for what it has lost by leaving the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade

Oh dear. Another Wiki user. 

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Erm….

 

 

Sorry if you misunderstood me. That was an invite. 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by youreavinalaff

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

Anyway, I feel very privileged to have all 3 of you as an audience all at the same time. Shame Ridy is AWOL.

I'm pleased to have contributed????

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by RayC
Extra word removed

On 5/17/2023 at 11:45 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you would have listened to him, you would have heard that he is saying that the Tory Government have failed to deliver the Brexit that the U.K voted for and that they have failed in their task

Which, in plain English, means that Brexit has failed. Doesn't matter whose fault it was, Brexit has failed.

Don't say that I didn't warn you.

9 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

However, my suggestion is not meaningless. It is possible things could have been different and is a valid suggestion.

But it wasn't different. That's a fact and you can't argue facts or change history. History will, no doubt, record Brexit as a failure.

7 minutes ago, polpott said:

Which, in plain English, means that Brexit has failed. Doesn't matter whose fault it was, Brexit has failed.

Don't say that I didn't warn you.

It is my understanding that UK life out of EU is ongoing. Until, unlikely, the UK rejoin EU it is ongoing.

 

Therefore, it is impossible, also grammatically incorrect, to say it has "failed". "Failing", "not going well", "could be better", maybe. However, "failed". Incorrect.

1 minute ago, polpott said:

But it wasn't different. That's a fact and you can't argue facts or change history. History will, no doubt, record Brexit as a failure.

You misunderstand. You can't say " it wasn't different" as the scenario under discussion didn't happen. We will never know what might have happened had UK left in April 2019.

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is my understanding that UK life out of EU is ongoing. Until, unlikely, the UK rejoin EU it is ongoing.

 

Therefore, it is impossible, also grammatically incorrect, to say it has "failed". "Failing", "not going well", "could be better", maybe. However, "failed". Incorrect.

Listen to Nigel, it isn't failing. it has failed. Which part of Brexit do you want to discuss? The economy? international trade? Immigration? 

All not failing, failed.

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You misunderstand. You can't say " it wasn't different" as the scenario under discussion didn't happen. We will never know what might have happened had UK left in April 2019.

We know what didn't happen.

2 minutes ago, polpott said:

Listen to Nigel, it isn't failing. it has failed. Which part of Brexit do you want to discuss? The economy? international trade? Immigration? 

All not failing, failed.

Has it stopped? Are UK back in EU?

 

I didn't think so.

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Has it stopped? Are UK back in EU?

 

I didn't think so.

Did I say that we were back in the EU?

 

You're rambling now. Goodnight.

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

For far different reasons than you think it is

 

Let's face it, you and Farage are different ends of the scale.

 

It's funny though that you side with Farage to try to prove a point. 

I don’t side with Farage on anything.

 

He’s finally seen he can’t deny the truth of Brexit failure is now trying to seek relevance in complaining about the folly he himself played such a significant role in creating.

 

 

16 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is my understanding that UK life out of EU is ongoing. Until, unlikely, the UK rejoin EU it is ongoing.

 

Therefore, it is impossible, also grammatically incorrect, to say it has "failed". "Failing", "not going well", "could be better", maybe. However, "failed". Incorrect.

‘Brexit failure means Brexit failure’.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Brexit failure means Brexit failure’.

 

 

When it has come to an end, yes. I agree.

 

The only way Brexit can come to an end is if UK rejoin. I'll be happy to discuss failure then.

43 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

When it has come to an end, yes. I agree.

 

The only way Brexit can come to an end is if UK rejoin. I'll be happy to discuss failure then.

Brexit already passed its zenith.

 

I look forward to reminding Brexiteers as the UK starts its journey back to the EU.

 

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexit already passed its zenith.

 

I look forward to reminding Brexiteers as the UK starts its journey back to the EU.

 

Unless you are under 25, it won't happen in your lifetime.

If Nig was capable of total honesty he would have added that the Tory's failed at an impossible task. But then he was also all for the Truss tax cuts for the rich that nearly cratered the UK economy. 

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

When it has come to an end, yes. I agree.

 

The only way Brexit can come to an end is if UK rejoin. I'll be happy to discuss failure then.

Then using your line of argument/ reasoning, the EU cannot be judged a success or failure as it is ongoing.

 

Why then did we leave - or even hold a referendum - if we weren't in a position to make an informed choice about whether it is a success or a failure?

44 minutes ago, RayC said:

Then using your line of argument/ reasoning, the EU cannot be judged a success or failure as it is ongoing.

 

Why then did we leave - or even hold a referendum - if we weren't in a position to make an informed choice about whether it is a success or a failure?

You mention reasoning. You don't appear to have done any prior to posting this. 

 

You are asking the electorate to look into the future. I would have thought that would be impossible.

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by youreavinalaff

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Oh dear. Another Wiki user. 

In other words, you've got nothing.