Senators’ Bloc Against Voters’ Consensus Will Have A Price To Pay: Pita

[248900_1469958220]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously we can't / shouldn't become politically active here. But dude this is an English language discussion forum and Thailand just experienced a historically significant national election result. Of course it's OK to discuss that!

Probably disagree with you on most things....but in this instance you are 100% correct.......

[MrMojoRisin]

3 minutes ago, h90 said:

yes but if PTP makes a coalition and get some of the other parties than it will be also 23, 24, 25 millions complete without MF....
You won't find any posting from me saying that Prayuth is a honest and great politician. I thought MF don't want to be the same as Prayuth?

If wishes were horses beggars would ride.

[h90]

2 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

It was a rigged election. You are either honest or you are not.

 

Do you support a new, fair referendum for a new constitution?

 

A poll from July had seen a majority of voters in favour. However, in many cases "yes" votes were not real indicators of support for the new text but rather for quick elections, as the ruling Council for National Security (CNS) has stated that approval of the new constitution was a requirement for holding parliamentary elections later that year.[5]

 

Had the draft been rejected, the military government would have had the freedom to choose any previous constitution to adapt and promulgate instead. The turnout was around 60%

Of course I would be for a new fair referendum....I think it would only make sense if there would be different versions to choose.
They told that if it is rejected they'll go back to the previous constitution....but that could have meant to any of the previous and there are plenty.

Yes it was not clean.....but not clean is much better than almost every other constitution that had no referendum at all.

I didn't read much of it....but I saw some serious quality problems...it is just badly made. I can't understand why Thailand in 2017 can't make a constitution that is at least technically made well...they have like xx previous constitutions to copy/paste from and a xxx foreign constitution they can copy+adjust for Thailand. No reason at all to invent it new.
The senators as guard dogs.....I can't imagine that there is no better solution......use retired supreme court judges or something like that...it would be also super conservative and looks better. Or some mix of people.
But maybe the constitution after the 2026 coup will be better ????

[Xonax]

If business is as uaual, the only thing that is keeping MF to get the PM, is the size of the brown envelopes distributed to the senators.

[RandolphGB]

4 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Yes.......we are guests here and our comments on things should in the main be private rather than public, BUT, most of us have wives/partners, and many of us have children here, and it is only correct that we show concern for them and their futures, especially where we see total foolhardiness by those who are supposed to look after the Thai people in general.

Many of us also pay tax that supports the f***ers and their endless nonsense, corruption and bizarre rituals and institutions. 

 

 

 

[Reigntax]

30 minutes ago, h90 said:

There was a referendum....there was a lot discussion about it and red shirt/PTP told people to vote no for it.
Yes it was not a perfect referendum....but it was one. The previous constitution had no referendum not even a bad one. My countries constitution had no referendum not even a bad one.

It was far from perfect and best described as a sham for the military ti hold onto power.

And such is being played out right now by these junta appointed cronies.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Reigntax

[scorecard]

16 minutes ago, h90 said:

Of course I would be for a new fair referendum....I think it would only make sense if there would be different versions to choose.
They told that if it is rejected they'll go back to the previous constitution....but that could have meant to any of the previous and there are plenty.

Yes it was not clean.....but not clean is much better than almost every other constitution that had no referendum at all.

I didn't read much of it....but I saw some serious quality problems...it is just badly made. I can't understand why Thailand in 2017 can't make a constitution that is at least technically made well...they have like xx previous constitutions to copy/paste from and a xxx foreign constitution they can copy+adjust for Thailand. No reason at all to invent it new.
The senators as guard dogs.....I can't imagine that there is no better solution......use retired supreme court judges or something like that...it would be also super conservative and looks better. Or some mix of people.
But maybe the constitution after the 2026 coup will be better ????

Simple answer - the 2 Ps et all worded the constitution to gain strong and imorral advantage / their aim was to gain big advantage from a mostly military dominated/appointed senate. Their aim wasn't 'democracy'.

 

And the citizens accepted it. Crazy but true.

 

Now it comes back to be, as planned, an unethical road block to democratic principles/democratic methods of deciding an election. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by scorecard

[sidneybear]

15 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

Many of us also pay tax that supports the f***ers and their endless nonsense, corruption and bizarre rituals and institutions. 

Thailand's institutions are there for a reason, and are similar in function to their counterparts anywhere else. What are the alternatives? Zero tax and zero state? 

Edited May 18, 2023 by sidneybear

[PomPolo]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously we can't / shouldn't become politically active here. But dude this is an English language discussion forum and Thailand just experienced a historically significant national election result. Of course it's OK to discuss that!

Thailand are professing to be a democracy to the wider world, however it does not appear to be democratic with the 250 installed members of parliament that were never elected just allocated in the constitution so any other party would never get a majority.  Freedom of speech is also important in a democracy and the right to protest - that also seems to have been taken away with the repurposing of other laws meant for the monarchy, as soon as the politicians start looking after the government again rather than a clueless military then Thailand can 'move forward'

 

There is a reason military governments never work out, it doesn't matter how you dress it up to the wider world, they will catch on eventually!

 

(DISCLAIMER - All opinions in this post are how I think the average Thai citizen may feel not mine - for legal clarity :))

[RandolphGB]

7 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Thailand's institutions are there for a reason, and are similar in function to their counterparts anywhere else. What are the alternatives? Zero tax and zero state? 

The post didn't mention the state. However, yes, less tax and a smaller state is always preferable. 

 

 

[AndyFoxy]

5 hours ago, fdimike said:

We are guests in this country and I believe we should act that way.  None of us can vote here and I think it's very inappropriate to comment one way or the other in the politics of our host country..  JMHO

Agree with this 100%

[sidneybear]

Pita is about to be given a crash course in how Thailand's 'managed' democracy really works. 

[Pink Mist]

Off topic post about CNN removed.

 

A post referencing Thailand's Monarchy has been removed.

 

4. You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any member of the Thai royal family whether living or deceased. You will not criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments or discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing His Majesty The King of Thailand or the Thai royal family. You will not link to or discuss any website which breaches this rule.

[PomPolo]

5 hours ago, fdimike said:

We are guests in this country and I believe we should act that way.  None of us can vote here and I think it's very inappropriate to comment one way or the other in the politics of our host country..  JMHO

Complete rubbish and sounds like a trolling post.  By being a guest in this country we are still held accountable to the laws of the country therefore we do have a legal right within the bounds of the laws laid down in the country however crazy they are to discuss these, this is a democracy isn't it that respects all races, cultures and opinions within it's borders equally???? 555

[h90]

45 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Simple answer - the 2 Ps et all worded the constitution to gain strong and imorral advantage / their aim was to gain big advantage from a mostly military dominated/appointed senate. Their aim wasn't 'democracy'.

 

And the citizens accepted it. Crazy but true.

 

Now it comes back to be, as planned, an unethical road block to democratic principles/democratic methods of deciding an election. 

The idea was a managed democracy, so no crazy party can destroy the country....They wouldn't have a problem with a normal party, but changing the constitution to remove the protection for the monarchy is a no go....
But making it with 250 military appointed senators must be the worst thinkable solution...it is plain wrong to install them.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

I think those senators should first be given the chance to do the right thing. Maybe - just maybe - a sufficient number of them will see the light and vote with the elected representatives of the people. It takes less than 70 out of 250 to vote for the PM along with coalition MPs, and once that has been done, the senate becomes pretty much irrelevant. 

 

That failing, yes, they would make themselves enemies of the people.

Yes, let us hope righteousness prevails. My wife told me Pita was just on the radio, and TV, and he was expressing exactly this sentiment. He is off to a good start, giving the Thai people credit, and setting the stage for hope, peace and moving forward. I really like this guy. 

[ChrisY1]

And what of Prayut’ 20 year plan…?

What of the section in the constitution requires a senate to be appointed by the military or at least a large part of the sanate…is that part still valid?

[wealthychef]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

Thailand has an unconstitutional constitution

Oxymoron of the week for me!  Is it just me or is this just not possible?  

[Eric Loh]

19 minutes ago, h90 said:

The idea was a managed democracy, so no crazy party can destroy the country....They wouldn't have a problem with a normal party, but changing the constitution to remove the protection for the monarchy is a no go....
But making it with 250 military appointed senators must be the worst thinkable solution...it is plain wrong to install them.

Pita proposed to watered-down penalties in Section 112 of the Crminal Code. He is not removing the protection for the monarchy. Section 112 has been abused by the Prayut government to inflict overly punitive penalties.  

[Chongalulu]

4 hours ago, actonion said:

Albeit an uninvited  paying guest

That there are retirement, marriage and other visas is exactly that,an invitation. 

[Pink Mist]

A personal attack and a troll post advocating harm to others has been removed.  Continue and face suspension.

 

14. You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, Thai people, Thai culture, Thai institutions such as the military, judicial or law enforcement system or specific locations within Thailand.

[ikke1959]

29 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Pita proposed to watered-down penalties in Section 112 of the Crminal Code. He is not removing the protection for the monarchy. Section 112 has been abused by the Prayut government to inflict overly punitive penalties.  

I completely agree with you...section 112 is abused by the government, and that should be updated, but it seems that everybody has the idea that a change is meant to remove the protection and if he can clear that probably no problems are there, but, the senators have their own ideas 

[SpanishExpat]

Pita has balls of steel and that’s great! They learned from the mistakes Thanathorn made last time with Move Forward.

 

You simple can’t discuss rational with those dinosaurs in charge. His strategy won’t change Thailand completely in one month or more one year, but will be fundamental for the future.

 

and for everyone thinking the next coup is around the corner. Things have changed within the last 10 years. The young generation wants a modern Thailand, isn’t afraid to fight for that, they are educated and can’t be manipulated to the extent the older generation has been in the past.

Edited May 18, 2023 by SpanishExpat

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Thailand's institutions are there for a reason, and are similar in function to their counterparts anywhere else. What are the alternatives? Zero tax and zero state? 

Look at the results of those institutions - one of the most unequal societies on the planet and it’s still heading in the wrong direction getting worse and worse.

[thailand49]

New face?  This is no surprise now he will find out for himself that these old dogs who got rich and want to continue to get richer will share the pie with him. 

[h90]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Pita proposed to watered-down penalties in Section 112 of the Crminal Code. He is not removing the protection for the monarchy. Section 112 has been abused by the Prayut government to inflict overly punitive penalties.  

They present it as he want to abolish it....I didn't read up what he really said. Do you have examples of overly punitive penalties....Examples that can be written without getting problems? I only know a few very old cases and that would have resulted in jail terms in my country if made against the president as well...but jail terms of months not decades like here. I recall it was also topic of a speech ............... (which I don't want to discuss....which actually supports your argument....if I am afraid of discussing something rather positive than the law is wrong)

Edited May 18, 2023 by Pink Mist
Part of the post edited to remove dissalowed content

[SpanishExpat]

7 hours ago, fdimike said:

We are guests in this country and I believe we should act that way.  None of us can vote here and I think it's very inappropriate to comment one way or the other in the politics of our host country..  JMHO

Not everyone here is old & retired!!

 

Many of us are working expats with Thai wifes, kids etc. 

 

while I am technically a guest I do have the right to discuss politics and have a clear opinion about what’s going on in Thailand. And Thailand would/ will be a better country without egocentric, military dinosaurs. A better country to raise kids & a better country for the family in law of westerners.

 

easy to come up with such a comment, if you don’t face hurdles like for example the non-existent pension system in Thailand which makes you fully dependent on your kids or you simply have to work until you die.

Edited May 18, 2023 by SpanishExpat

[cncltd1973]

people are passed and in disbelief. what's the point of voting if military appointed senators choose the PM? can't be called democracy if you scratch the surface and something other is revealed.

[ChrisKC]

8 hours ago, fdimike said:

We are guests in this country and I believe we should act that way.  None of us can vote here and I think it's very inappropriate to comment one way or the other in the politics of our host country..  JMHO

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously we can't / shouldn't become politically active here. But dude this is an English language discussion forum and Thailand just experienced a historically significant national election result. Of course it's OK to discuss that!

Guests come and go! I am not a guest, I am resident as many of us here are for many years and whatever the politics are we are subject to them  and have to live with them.

That entitles us to comment on them, understanding as foreigners we can't change anything in the voting process!

[Purdey]

The election went well but it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Parties have a lot of horse-trading yet to agree on.

Some right winger are bound to raise legal cases aimed at destroying liberal MPs and their parties.

Prayut could be named premier (with senate support) in a minority government. On the other hand, he may feel too tired having realized that politics and the military are completely different animals.

I doubt the public are in the mood for yet more demonstrations in the street. That's they voted - to end that nonsense.