‘Last push’ to get injured English tourist stuck in Thailand hospital back home

[Goat]

12 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

As we agreed recently, very valid financial and also humane solution for Thai Government (Tourist Industry) to pick up the bill for treatment of accidental injuries to everyone. I

Or how about his tab gets picked up by the British government? Thats where liam pays his taxes.

His own family have shirked payment, so has the British government but you thing the Thai taxpayers should be forking out? 

Thats a bit entitled isnt it?

[JustAnotherHun]

Just now, nchuckle said:

Problem with this and many similar cases is that their actions ( nohelmet orlicence or drunk) will invalidate any travel insurance 

Then you can't fix stupid.

[The Fugitive]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Another option would be to make a trvel insurance mandatory for everyone who wants to visit the country.

But then I could her the shouting until Germany, I guess :-).

By the way: If a Thai wants to go to Europe (EU) he has to show a health insurance.

Yes! Agree. Unfortunately, if the accidental injuries were excluded by the insurers e.g. drunk driving/riding, failing to wear a crash helmet etc. this young man would still be in the same position. Richard is advocating universal healthcare for all without questions as in the United Kingdom.

[David Whitemore]

If that was a Thai person and it happen in the UK, the UK would get that person home not sit waiting for money and no expense to the family

[JustAnotherHun]

Just now, The Fugitive said:

Yes! Agree. Unfortunately, if the accidental injuries were excluded by the insurers e.g. drunk driving/riding, failing to wear a crash helmet etc. this young man would still be in the same position. Richard is advocating universal healthcare for all without questions as in the United Kingdom.

I understand the point. But Thailand is not GB and as long as many Thai nationals do not have sufficient health care of a western standard, why should Thailand pay for foreign fools without insurance or idiots drivung in a way that excludes payments by the insurance company?

[mstevens]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I’ve repeated the following on this forum before: 

The Tourist Medical Burden on Thailand in cost terms is 0.04% of the income from tourism. 

It wouldn’t take a lot for Thailand to ‘write off’ these emergency cases.

While I applaud your empathy, such a policy would have unforeseen consequences. Covering all tourists for medical events suffered in Thailand would result in many seeing this as an opportunity to forego travel insurance.

 

I feel sorry for the fellow, I really do. Comprehensive travel insurance is a must so not just the victim of the accident, but their friends and family are not caught up in the awful events that follow.

Edited May 24, 2023 by mstevens

[kingstonkid]

46 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Best of luck.. 

My question, though, is the hospital bill is the least of their worries the big worry is how do you get him on a flight home.

 

I think most airlines would be a little squeamish about having him as a passenger.  Most are going to want medical care at least and are going to restrict which fights.  If he is still in a coma then they are going to want med flight only.

 

That is going to cost more than the hospital bill.

[The Fugitive]

3 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I understand the point. But Thailand is not GB and as long as many Thai nationals do not have sufficient health care of a western standard, why should Thailand pay for foreign fools without insurance or idiots drivung in a way that excludes payments by the insurance company?

Totally agree! The young man had options which would have avoided him being in this situation. However, he is in a bad way now and it's only a matter of time before we see another repeat. Something has to be done, either way.

[richard_smith237]

25 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

38 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I hope Thailand resolves its ‘insurance’ issues for tourists... there are very clear and obvious solutions but Thailand doesn’t seem to want to take firm steps towards those resolutions. 

I don't think it's Thailand to change it's attitude.

The situation is very clear:

If you're going to a foreign country you should have a travel insurance that pays the costs in case of an emergency or accident.

If you can afford to hollidy in Thailand you should be able to pay the very decent price for a travel insurance too.

If not, stay home or gofundme if things go wrong.

‘Thailand' seems to think otherwise which is why officials have been coming up with various ideas to ‘tax’ tourist arrivals / departures so that tourists have insurance. 

 

There was the 300 baht tourist tax - officials attempt to shunt the onus onto the airlines who refused to differentiate between Thai and non-Thai passengers (charging different rates so that this 300 baht was covered in the Ticket) - This can has been kicked down the road for numerous years, the latest ‘deadline’ is for a decision to be made by September for this. 

 

Thailand is also mulling over the 1000 baht departure tax, which would be for everyone. 

Some of this money ‘could’ (is planned?) to go into ‘insurance coffers’ to cover the cost of unpaid medical bills 

[kingstonkid]

44 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I wonder if the hospital will be pressured to let him go?  I would attempt to negotiate a payment plan for the remainder of the bill.  This is the time when an Embassy can get involved and work with the hospital and the family to ensure payments are made in the future.  But just like the US Embassy I doubt the British Embassy wants any part of this.  It would really look bad if his condition worsens while he is being “cared” for while waiting for the remainder of the bill to be paid.  This is the “catch 22’  of this predicament: while he is in the hospital the bill keeps climbing.  So as each day passes the current balance due gets higher and higher until he is discharged.  

The embassy CAN NOT guarantee that the family will pay the bill.  Therefore the embassy is not going to pay the bill.  

Any embassy of any country that did it would be setting a HUGE PRECEDENT.  No one would care about insurance as they would just say you paid for Mister X therefore the embassy should pay for me.

 

Embassies are not here for the tourists they are here for political connection and recognition of the country they are in to promote business and political channels.  They would all be quite happy if there were no tourists coming to any country that they are in.

 

Speaking form experience tourist can be more of a problem than they are worth to an embassy.

[Chongalulu]

11 minutes ago, Goat said:

Or how about his tab gets picked up by the British government? Thats where liam pays his taxes.

His own family have shirked payment, so has the British government but you thing the Thai taxpayers should be forking out? 

Thats a bit entitled isnt it?

It's not the responsibility of UK tax payers to underwrite irresponsibile behaviour of the underclass abroad. Although living here I pay higher rate UK tax on my income there and they'll do nothing to help ANY medical needs I may have here....other than to freeze your state pension to run salt in the wound!  ????

Feckless need to learn actions have consequences 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, mstevens said:

While I applaud your empathy, such a policy would have unforeseen consequences. Covering all tourists for medical events suffered in Thailand would result in many seeing this as an opportunity to forego travel insurance.

Agreed...  but people do not get into accidents deliberately... the medical cost burden would still be minimal compared to tourist income. 

Additionally - those who do have full insurance have the option for private treatment which would not be offered on the ’national system’... thus, there is still a strong incentive for people to ensure they are insured. 

 

3 minutes ago, mstevens said:

I feel sorry for the fellow, I really do. Comprehensive travel insurance is a must so not just the victim of the accident, but their friends and family are not caught up in the awful events that follow.

I wonder if its not a bad idea for Thailand to insist on ‘Travel insurance’ to be included in the cost of airline tickets for all arrivals... 

 

I see three options:

- Ensure all tourists are covered with insurance or have to purchase insurance upon entry.

- Forget about it and insure locally from funds from tourist income.

- Kick the can down the road and keep complaining about tourists (which is what the government are currently doing - the optics of this are very poor).

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Goat said:

Or how about his tab gets picked up by the British government? Thats where liam pays his taxes.

His own family have shirked payment, so has the British government but you thing the Thai taxpayers should be forking out? 

Thats a bit entitled isnt it?

I think thats not a bad idea...  Thai’s and other tourists receive free emergency healthcare in the UK.

Would it be too much of an ‘ask’ for our politicians to negotiate reciprocal agreements ???

 

 

[JonnyF]

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Depends what hospital used .... 3 days 1M baht later, and can't even get a diagnosis ????

https://aseannow.com/topic/1291623-thai-hospitals-more-tests-more-money-what-is-it-all-about/

 

Well, a stroke is quite different to food poisoning, but either way, I agree with Lacessit's take on the situation that (assuming the story is true) he's been massively ripped off. I could pay a million Baht for a Durian, but that doesn't mean Durian's cost a million Baht in Thailand.

 

[rwill]

35 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

7k for 3 days basic care? Either she got ripped off or she was exaggerating for 'likes' IMO.

When my family was visiting me we were on Koh Samui.  My father was having problems and we took him to Bangkok hospital on Koh Samui.  They charged 5,000 baht just to see the doctor, total bill was much higher.  When we got back to my home in Ratchaburi I took him to Bangkok hospital there.  It was only 500 baht to see the same type specialist.

Edited May 24, 2023 by rwill

[Goat]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

I think thats not a bad idea...  Thai’s and other tourists receive free emergency healthcare in the UK.

Would it be too much of an ‘ask’ for our politicians to negotiate reciprocal agreements ???

 

 

Well that wouldnt really be fair would it.

 

Not many Thais visit England because unlike the visa exempt on arrival that thailand gives you guys, for a Thai who isnt married to an Englishman, the visa is very difficult to obtain and most are rejected even they have paid expensive application fees.

It is a racist policy. Us Aussies are welcomed with open arms to both countries.

[KhunLA]

51 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I wonder if the hospital will be pressured to let him go?  I would attempt to negotiate a payment plan for the remainder of the bill.  This is the time when an Embassy can get involved and work with the hospital and the family to ensure payments are made in the future.  But just like the US Embassy I doubt the British Embassy wants any part of this.  It would really look bad if his condition worsens while he is being “cared” for while waiting for the remainder of the bill to be paid.  This is the “catch 22’  of this predicament: while he is in the hospital the bill keeps climbing.  So as each day passes the current balance due gets higher and higher until he is discharged.  

Why should any taxpayer be responsible for some irresponsible holiday maker.   There's a few things responsible people don't do;

... go on holiday without proper insurance or funds for an oops

 

Even I've never done that, and I'm pretty stupid and irresponsible at times.

 

I'm still wondering how he even ended up kissing the shop's window/mirror.   Apparently friends with him aren't divulging too much info.   I can speculate, but none of those thoughts would be complimentary of his plight.

 

Where are all these friends & family, that can afford int'l holiday, but can't scrape up the funds for a hospital bill.

[The Fugitive]

3 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

It's not the responsibility of UK tax payers to underwrite irresponsibile behaviour of the underclass abroad. Although living here I pay higher rate UK tax on my income there and they'll do nothing to help ANY medical needs I may have here....other than to freeze your state pension to run salt in the wound!  ????

Feckless need to learn actions have consequences

Completely agree! UK citizens already pay more than enough. They shouldn't be expected to bail out uninsured and/or reckless tourists abroad. Brits abroad without insurance probably believe; a) It might never happen, b) If it does they can't refuse to treat me (or discontinue treatment) just because I haven't got any money because they wouldn't do that in the UK. 

[Frankie baby]

Just as well Hes stuck in the Vachira  hospital which is a fraction of the costs when compared to the three large private ones on Phuket?

Hope something happens & Hes repatriated. 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, rwill said:

When my family was visiting me we were on Koh Samui.  My father was having problems and we took him to Bangkok hospital on Koh Samui.  They charged 5,000 baht just to see the doctor, total bill was much higher.  When we got back to my home in Ratchaburi I took him to Bangkok hospital there.  It was only 500 baht to see the same type specialist.

Big difference between 5,000 Baht++ (you don't state what 'much higher is') and 300,000 Baht for the girl with food poisoning.

 

I spent a whole day at Bumrungrad (possibly the most expensive hospital in Thailand) getting blood tests for about 40 conditions, ECG, stool and urine tests, ultra sound liver check, 30 minutes with a doctor and it was 14,000 Baht.

 

As I said before I did 3 days 2 nights at Camillian hospital following the bike crash, multiple Xray/MRI and meds - 55,000 Baht.

 

Maybe Samui is just ripping tourists off.

[JustAnotherHun]

6 minutes ago, Goat said:

It is a racist policy.

This has nothing to do with racism

[Goat]

7 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

This has nothing to do with racism

All the white majority countries are given visas.

Most Asian and black are not.

Lets call a spade a spade. 

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Why should any taxpayer be responsible for some irresponsible holiday maker.   There's a few things responsible people don't do;

... go on holiday without proper insurance or funds for an oops

 

Even I've never done that, and I'm pretty stupid and irresponsible at times.

A bit rich... 

 

I for one didn’t think about such matters when I was first travelling overseas... young, stupidly naive.

The only thing that differentiates people such as myself and this young lad is pure luck.... I was never involved in an accident.

 

Its easy to judge with 20/20 hindsight... but myself and many like me would be complete hypocrites to pass judgement on this young lad who’s mistake was doing what the majority of other young people did and overlooked the need for insurance. 

 

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm still wondering how he even ended up kissing the shop's window/mirror.   Apparently friends with him aren't divulging too much info.   I can speculate, but none of those thoughts would be complimentary of his plight.

Could another vehicle have run him off the road ?... Is ’Thailand’ complicit in this incident due to its ineffectiveness in enforcing the laws and failing to make the roads safer?...  was the road design very poor? why was the glass in the shop-front not safety glass ?... any regulations broken by the shop owner on that facet ?

 

I’m obviously not blaming Thailand for this young mans accident, however, the cause and severity of this mans injuries may not be 100% his own doing.

 

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Where are all these friends & family, that can afford int'l holiday, but can't scrape up the funds for a hospital bill.

 

They’ve scraped about GBP 16,000 I think....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Fugitive]

16 minutes ago, Goat said:

Well that wouldnt really be fair would it.

 

Not many Thais visit England because unlike the visa exempt on arrival that thailand gives you guys, for a Thai who isnt married to an Englishman, the visa is very difficult to obtain and most are rejected even they have paid expensive application fees.

It is a racist policy. Us Aussies are welcomed with open arms to both countries.

My Thai Mrs was refused a visa for USA. Her sister was refused for Australia. My Mrs went working in South Korea. However, she was arrested and flown back to Thailand handcuffed to a female immigration officer. Sister now works in Mumbai, so far without incident. 

[richard_smith237]

An important question I want to ask is the billing itself. 

 

Is the hospital bill charged at a dual rate ?...

i.e. is the bill higher because this young man is a foreigner ?

Or,... is the bill the same as that which would be issued to a Thai person ?

 

 

It would seem somewhat duplicitous of the hospital to employ dual-charging in this circumstance and then complain that the bill is not being fully paid. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, Goat said:

Well that wouldnt really be fair would it.

 

Not many Thais visit England because unlike the visa exempt on arrival that thailand gives you guys, for a Thai who isnt married to an Englishman, the visa is very difficult to obtain and most are rejected even they have paid expensive application fees.

It is a racist policy. Us Aussies are welcomed with open arms to both countries.

Au-contrare....    it depends on ones socio-economic status... 

 

 

Thai Middle income earners easily obtain Visa’s for the UK & Europe... its only the poor without funds and a regular income stream who struggle to obtain Visa’s.

 

Permission of entry has noting to do with race... it is only about ‘balance of probability’ that the applicant will return to Thailand. 

[shackleton]

While I hope the family raise the money in question and and the patient gets back to the UK safely

Makes you wonder when we will be reading about  the next case of not having the  proper insurance or none 

And a other case of Gofundme appearing ????

[HauptmannUK]

20 minutes ago, Goat said:

 

Not many Thais visit England because unlike the visa exempt on arrival that thailand gives you guys, for a Thai who isnt married to an Englishman, the visa is very difficult to obtain and most are rejected even they have paid expensive application fees.

It is a racist policy. Us Aussies are welcomed with open arms to both countries.

This is nonsense. A visitor visa to UK costs £100 (฿4000) and is valid for 6 months. It is multiple-entry. For Thai applicants the overwhelming majority are granted (I think its 90%+).  About 5 Thai people I used to work with have taken holidays in the UK. Last year a friend of my wife resigned her job in Bangkok (worked in an advertising agency) and came to the UK for a six month holiday. No sponsorship involved.  As it happens she then worked illegally (in the offices of a large UK manufacturing company who made no checks - she is very smart and fluent in English). She met a British guy there and overstayed about three weeks (no penalty or stamp in passport). They married in Thailand in February. Already has spouse visa and flight to UK booked for next month...

For a 'racist' country the UK is remarkably welcoming to non-Westerners. Legal immigration to the UK is around 700,000 in the last year - the great majority non-white. 

[HauptmannUK]

21 minutes ago, Goat said:

All the white majority countries are given visas.

Most Asian and black are not.

Lets call a spade a spade. 

Absolute twaddle...

[JustAnotherHun]

19 minutes ago, Goat said:

All the white majority countries are given visas.

Most Asian and black are not.

Lets call a spade a spade. 

The important word is MOST.

So it ain't racism, right. It has to do with illegal migration, not with racism.

I don't know about GB, but for Germany for example Nippon nationals do not need a visa. Are Japanes Asiens?