‘Last push’ to get injured English tourist stuck in Thailand hospital back home

[GinBoy2]

8 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

My Thai Mrs was refused a visa for USA. Her sister was refused for Australia. My Mrs went working in South Korea. However, she was arrested and flown back to Thailand handcuffed to a female immigration officer. Sister now works in Mumbai, so far without incident. 

I think we're conflating a few issues here.

 

I think your post illustrates 'why' Western visas are so hard for Thai's to obtain, since your wife went to South Korea and worked illegally, visa exempt, then you wonder why an embassy CO is suspicious of the intent of the applicant! 

Nothing racist in that, just reacting to reality

 

As for travel insurance, we go around and around on this.

 

I'd say a combination of stupidity, ignorance and insurance greed are to blame.

 

I believe most of us have at some point witnessed stupid, doing things, driving like they would never even think about in their home country, yet in Thailand, just go for it.

 

'If' and thats a big if they bought travel insurance they, they often opted for the lowest possible price, never bothering to read the actual limitations of the policy, like being drunk, riding without a helmet, the list goes on.

 

So who picks up the tab?

 

Well I'll be a little hard nosed, the individual.

 

No Government Thai or Falang  should be penalizing their taxpayers for someone else's stupidity, or ignorance 

[rwill]

32 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Big difference between 5,000 Baht++ (you don't state what 'much higher is') and 300,000 Baht for the girl with food poisoning.

 

I spent a whole day at Bumrungrad (possibly the most expensive hospital in Thailand) getting blood tests for about 40 conditions, ECG, stool and urine tests, ultra sound liver check, 30 minutes with a doctor and it was 14,000 Baht.

 

As I said before I did 3 days 2 nights at Camillian hospital following the bike crash, multiple Xray/MRI and meds - 55,000 Baht.

 

Maybe Samui is just ripping tourists off.

My dad had to pay about 15,000 to see the doctor a couple of lab tests and some medications.  5,000 of it was just to see the doctor for 15 or 20 minutes.

My point is exactly that Samui is much higher.

[Chicksaw]

Bit of a conundrum for Thailand:

(a) Demand proof of adequate health insurance of all visitors and dampen the tourist trade.

(b) Charge a small fee (1k b exit fee?) of all and cover visitor health insurance internally, which sends the message "Come one, come all, party, go nuts, we've got you covered".

[PremiumLane]

Three things to get the eye-twitching old curmudgeons on here all excited and frothed up, the tourist who had an accident and has a huge hospital bill, a farrang who works and might not have a work permit, and  overstayers.

[1happykamper]

It's one thing to have no insurance and no cash... But completely sad on the other hand that he has no family or friends that give a damn about him... Credit card.. Bank loans... Whip around at work etc etc.. Just sad all around. 

[ignore it]

Boy gets himself banged up and into hospital.  No insurance and no funds to self insure.

 

Family (Mummy and Dad?) flys to Bangkok to be with him. They stay in Bangkok from the 8th.

 

Now asking for help for airfares to get home. Need 4k pounds.

 

So I'm wondering how much is airfare for two from Wirral, UK to Bangkok, lodging and meals for 16 days? Any souvenirs?

 

Sure hope Mum and Dad are carefully crossing the streets here.

 

Just stupid people.

 

 

 

[1happykamper]

14 minutes ago, rwill said:

My dad had to pay about 15,000 to see the doctor a couple of lab tests and some medications.  5,000 of it was just to see the doctor for 15 or 20 minutes.

My point is exactly that Samui is much higher.

So I assume he went to a private hospital. Public are perfectly adequate... If you can wait. 

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, Goat said:

All the white majority countries are given visas.

Most Asian and black are not.

Lets call a spade a spade. 

Then you need to understand why. It's because the citizens of the aforementioned white countries, because of a myriad social and economic factors can be relied on to return at the end of their visa. The latter not so much. It also explains why those in dinghies coming across the channel are from the latter group. The white countries citizens aren't baying to leave.

[geisha]

2 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I don't think it's Thailand to change it's attitude.

The situation is very clear:

If you're going to a foreign country you should have a travel insurance that pays the costs in case of an emergency or accident.

If you can afford to hollidy in Thailand you should be able to pay the very decent price for a travel insurance too.

If not, stay home or gofundme if things go wrong.

Quite agree , but I think that Thailand , all countries, should have strict laws concerning the renting out of motor bikes/ scooters. The agencies should be insured for every bike they rent out, or a premium charged and copy of licence proof . Police should do their bit too and confiscate drivers without real helmets .  Let’s face it, most tourist accidents are with bikes, or crossing roads , dugs and alcohol related. 
make it obligatory for tourists to enter with a valid travel insurance with inclusions such as with motor bikes / cars/ sports . It happened with Covid where you had to show your insurance with Covid costs included, why not now ?? That would cost the Thai governments nothing. Just abide by laws. 

[kennypowers]

2 hours ago, IamNoone88 said:

Seems very hard to follow 2 simple self-imposed rules ......... 1. Get adequate insurance. 2. Don't do anything that risks breaking the insurance clause payouts ..... like riding a motor bike without a proper license and/or not wearing safety equipment .... both as required by the law .... I wish him a well in his recovery.

One huge problem in the insurance industry is that most companies aren't transparent and do not explicitly state the rules on motorbikes/mopeds. Most people assume a ride on 50-100cc bike would be covered. It's a very easy way for insurers to get out of paying up. Even with a valid license, they can deny a payout if you don't have an IDP. They advertise quick and easy online policies for young travellers who are just excited to get packed and head off. When was the last time you read a 6,000 word terms and conditions for any warranty or service you undertook. Yes, responsibility has to be assumed, but there needs to be some legislation that explicitly states prior to buying the insurance that "you are not covered for riding any type of motorbike, not matter the size of the engine, or electric bike, unless you have a helmet of x standard, a full driver's license, international permit, and the bike itself is insured...etc". 

[The Fugitive]

35 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I think we're conflating a few issues here.

 

I think your post illustrates 'why' Western visas are so hard for Thai's to obtain, since your wife went to South Korea and worked illegally, visa exempt, then you wonder why an embassy CO is suspicious of the intent of the applicant! 

Nothing racist in that, just reacting to reality

 

As for travel insurance, we go around and around on this.

 

I'd say a combination of stupidity, ignorance and insurance greed are to blame.

 

I believe most of us have at some point witnessed stupid, doing things, driving like they would never even think about in their home country, yet in Thailand, just go for it.

 

'If' and thats a big if they bought travel insurance they, they often opted for the lowest possible price, never bothering to read the actual limitations of the policy, like being drunk, riding without a helmet, the list goes on.

 

So who picks up the tab?

 

Well I'll be a little hard nosed, the individual.

 

No Government Thai or Falang  should be penalizing their taxpayers for someone else's stupidity, or ignorance 

The irony of the USA visa refusal was that my Mrs was going to work in her Auntie's Thai restaurant in Amarillo. Long established family business. Aunt splits her time between USA and Thailand. My Mrs only went working illegally in South Korea because USA turned her down for legal work. I agree that people should be responsible for their own actions. However, once the damage has been done the humane thing to do would be to fix the patient and not delay or discontinue treatment until payment can be made.     

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

Three things to get the eye-twitching old curmudgeons on here all excited and frothed up, the tourist who had an accident and has a huge hospital bill, a farrang who works and might not have a work permit, and  overstayers.

Those three subjects certainly invite discussion! Having said that some of us want to see simple solutions which would operate to the benefit of all. The right to live and work anywhere (like a Worldwide European Union) would solve two out of three. UK style National Health Service would solve the third.

Edited May 24, 2023 by The Fugitive

[sidjameson]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

There’s nothing wrong with the hospital wanting payment. But, IF the hospital operates dual-charing (double pricing) and is charing this boy more because he is a foreigner then I see something very wrong while the family struggle to make ends meet to cover the cost of treatment. 

 

The hospital has done a wonderful job of keeping him alive. 

 

I hope Thailand resolves its ‘insurance’ issues for tourists... there are very clear and obvious solutions but Thailand doesn’t seem to want to take firm steps towards those resolutions. 

 

I’ve repeated the following on this forum before: 

The Tourist Medical Burden on Thailand in cost terms is 0.04% of the income from tourism. 

It wouldn’t take a lot for Thailand to ‘write off’ these emergency cases.

 

Thailand is proposing a 1000 Baht departure tax - it wouldn’t take a lot for the funds from this to go towards ’tourists insurance’ to cover emergency medical treatment (note - emergency medical treatment, not elective treatment). 

 

Thailand ‘could’ do more to place itself in a more welcoming position, present better optics and further work towards improving tourism rather than the repeated articles where we witness the underlying attitudes that Thailand considers tourists a burden rather than the financial benefit they bring to the country. 

 

 

Thailand covers medical bills as you suggest then the unintended consequence of this is nobody bothering with medical insurance when visiting Thailand.

[The Fugitive]

3 minutes ago, sidjameson said:

Thailand covers medical bills as you suggest then the unintended consequence of this is nobody bothering with medical insurance when visiting Thailand.

Also to be considered is that Thai citizens don't receive free/30 baht medical treatment if their injuries were caused by a road traffic accident. They are supposed to have motor insurance to pay for that. Thai National Health Service couldn't provide free treatment to foreigners injured in RTA's and not their own citizens! 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, sidjameson said:

Thailand covers medical bills as you suggest then the unintended consequence of this is nobody bothering with medical insurance when visiting Thailand.

I don't believe that would happen - not the the extent that there would be any significant impact. 

Those who do think about health insurance would usually be concerned about the level and standards of treatment, those same people perhaps do not want to be treated in a government hospital and thus may still be encouraged to take out their own travel insurance that offers treatment in private hospitals. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Also to be considered is that Thai citizens don't receive free/30 baht medical treatment if their injuries were caused by a road traffic accident. They are supposed to have motor insurance to pay for that. Thai National Health Service couldn't provide free treatment to foreigners injured in RTA's and not their own citizens! 

Thats another flaw in the system - emergency treatment should be free for all, without question. 

 

 

 

[Ctkong]

I see the problem of thailand being a ‘paradise’  in the eyes of tourists … lacking enforcement and Thai laissez-faire attitude towards road safety sort of influence their throwing caution to the wind attitude. Monkey see monkey do. Moreover no travel insurance cover incidents of travelers having no valid driving licenses, no helmet or drink driving. These days of internet is no excuse for any traveler to be ignorant of the scams and accidents in their foreign destinations.

[JustAnotherHun]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

Those three subjects certainly invite discussion! Having said that some of us want to see simple solutions which would operate to the benefit of all. The right to live and work anywhere (like a Worldwide European Union) would solve two out of three. UK style National Health Service would solve the third.

I doubt that very much, but it would be a different discussion ????

[Jaggg88]

4 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I don't think it's Thailand to change it's attitude.

The situation is very clear:

If you're going to a foreign country you should have a travel insurance that pays the costs in case of an emergency or accident.

If you can afford to hollidy in Thailand you should be able to pay the very decent price for a travel insurance too.

If not, stay home or gofundme if things go wrong.

I doubt travel insurance would have paid. Did he have the correct licence and IDP, was he wearing a helmet, and was he intoxicated? Any of these would negate cover.

[JustAnotherHun]

13 minutes ago, Jaggg88 said:

I doubt travel insurance would have paid. Did he have the correct licence and IDP, was he wearing a helmet, and was he intoxicated? Any of these would negate cover.

If so it's even more his own fault. Don't fund idiots

[cardinalblue]

The objective is if he is ready for travel and the family has lined up medical travel, then should go asap….

 

He should not be held hostage for bill payment…that is not medical care…

[JustAnotherHun]

2 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

The objective is if he is ready for travel and the family has lined up medical travel, then should go asap….

...after he has payed his bill. This seems to be tradtion all over the world.

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Doctors say he is almost ready to be transferred to a hospital in the UK, once his hospital bill is paid in full.

So he won't be ready for transfer until his bill is paid - is that a medical opinion and which doctor made this determination?

 

They won't let him fly without medical permission......

 

I'll summarise : We ain't letting him go until you pay every baht.

 

He's being held hostage.

Edited May 24, 2023 by ukrules

[JustAnotherHun]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

He's being held hostage.

So if you want check out from your hotel without paying the bill and they don't want to let you go, you're held hostage? Really?

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

So if you want check out from your hotel without paying the bill and they don't want to let you go, you're held hostage? Really?

Somewhat of a flawed strawman fallacy you are presenting there. 

 

A hospital is not a hotel and the injured party will need to have treatment continued in his home country - this ‘holding him’ in hospital until bills are paid quite literally is ‘holding him hostage’... 

 

Even more so IF his bill is at elevated rates because he is a foreigner. 

 

 

[JustAnotherHun]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

Somewhat of a flawed strawman fallacy you are presenting there. 

 

A hospital is not a hotel and the injured party will need to have treatment continued in his home country - this ‘holding him’ in hospital until bills are paid quite literally is ‘holding him hostage’... 

 

Even more so IF his bill is at elevated rates because he is a foreigner. 

 

 

If he needs continued treatment, then he should stay in the hospital - or fly home, but after his bill is payed.

Double pricing is a completely different thing. and has nothing to do with the topic.

[IvorBiggun2]

Took my missus to the UK. No insurance. She had a fishbone caught in her throat. I took her to emergency at the local hospital. They got it out. I asked for the bill. No charge as it is/was classed as an emergency.

[sidjameson]

49 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

The objective is if he is ready for travel and the family has lined up medical travel, then should go asap….

 

He should not be held hostage for bill payment…that is not medical care…

So who ultimately should pay for his treatment? Don't say the government.....that's a proxy. If you want to say government then describe the actual tax payer that should pay. 

[thailand49]

Thailand the Medical Hub $$$$$$$

Don't expect if he makes it into office Harvard education going to change how they treat anyone that isn't Thai especially in medical care all they care about is money! 

[JustAnotherHun]

2 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Thailand the Medical Hub $$$$$$$

 

Yeah, that's the difference. Anywhere else in the world PRIVATE hospitals work for altruistic reasons and money does not count ????