The history of Thailand’s holy-day alcohol ban – and why it could soon be lifted

[kwilco]

31 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Nothing at all to do with it. It's about an anochronistic law. People, that would be millions, drink alcohol on these days and buy alcohol on these days. If they can't purchase on the day they buy it before. So what's the point of this rediculous doctrinal law based on what isn't a religion in name only? It's about choice and freedom of that choice. You choose not to imbibe in alcohol that's fair enough. Others choose to and that should be fair enough too. These freedoms should not be dictated by a minority.

THe law is just an excuse for the drinkers to try and justify themselves - you need to read my post where. I refer to religion and alcohol.

[khaowong1]

12 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

Anyone who 'agonizes' over bars not legally being able to serve alcohol for 24 hours should probably see a doctor. 

 

 

 

 

I agree... You have problems... 

[Caldera]

Good move (forward 555). It's really time that the Thai government treats its citizens as adults who can make those choices for themselves, by themselves. 

[richard_smith237]

 

 

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, kwilco said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its because they like it..

"The ban on specific days doesn’t impact me at all, I have plenty of beer in the fridge, a decent selection of good whiskies and a wine fridge full of various wines....  I’ll go weeks without a drink."

You are being incredibly predictable and clichéd  in your responses - we hear the same thing over and over.

As clichéd as the myopic dichotomy that people such as yourself project that others either don't drink at all or they have a dependency issue. 

 

 

59 minutes ago, kwilco said:

In your haste to justify your "habit" you don't seem to have read my comments on alcohol restrictions either.

I ignored them... too exaggerated to bother responding to and going down that rabbit hole, particularly when you start making statements such as 'drug taking culture' and 'dominant drug'... 

I actually partially agree with you but you have mixed your points with exaggeration I can't be bothered to pick apart.

 

59 minutes ago, kwilco said:

When I stopped drinking I met so many people who told mw "I could give up any time" - I can go foe weeks without a drink"

Firstly I wondered why they felt compelled to tell me and secondly they never did.

What made you give up ?

 

Also note: I wrote "I [do] go weeks without".... and not "I could...."

 

The reason I felt it necessary to point that out...  to highlight to people such as yourself that I although your opinions presents the extremes that someone is either dependent or they don't drink....  or they are lying to themselves with the suggestion they 'could stop'... there plenty of us who enjoy a drink but don't all the time and that perhaps represents most of Western Society regardless of the 'extremes' you project. 

 

Thus: When presenting a balanced view point, I want to also present that it is not the absence of booze itself on the 'non-booze days' which I find disagreeable it is the stupidity of reasoning behind the decision  itself which I find disagreeable.

 

I also understand why those who may want a cold one would feel annoyed when such a daft rule exists. 

 

Although you clearly struggled to recognise it, this opinion can exist outside of the realms of alcohol dependency.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

THe law is just an excuse for the drinkers to try and justify themselves - you need to read my post where. I refer to religion and alcohol.

Nope.. thats just your projection. 

 

The other point: Your posts are utter-tosh... thats why you think people are ignore some of the daft points to attempt to make. 

 

 

You wrote that you gave up drinking ? Why ?.... 

Genuine question...  (not an personal attack in any form) - if you had a dependency issue, props to you for giving up....  BUT, if you did.. not everyone is the same and there is a whole spectrum out there of people who enjoy various activities, events, substances and foods... most cause problems when enjoyed in excess.

 

My body is in pain most of the week from the sport that I do... If booze gave me the same pain I'd never drink at all...  But it doesn't and I enjoy it, just like I enjoy nice food... And... with that last comment in mine, perhaps you are correct, there is a dependency, some of us are dependent on doing things we enjoy.... (with the caveat that we don't overdo it).

[Jaggg88]

12 hours ago, 2baht said:

The lot! 

Just ask Americans how well that works ????

[kwilco]

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What made you give up ?

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

 

It is amazing how vociferous people get in trying to defend their habit. All it does is confirm their blind dependance on the drug.

it is also as I said earlier, sad that people really don't step back and think about their relationship with alcohol.

 

The comment above is a classic example of this - what MADE you give up!! in fact I didn't even "give up" in the sense that I made a conscious decision to do so. But it is impossible for drinkers to see not drinking as anything else but in terms of "giving up" (a surrender or denial), such is the grip that drinking has on their lives.

The answer to the question at the top is nothing, I just stopped and then gradually  realised after that, so much more about the relationship between society and alcohol. E.g this thread and the heated comments by drinkers.

 

I didn't "give up", I won

[kwilco]

43 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

dichotomy

You are the one who is dichotomising my argument which is that people don't question their relationship with alcohol which you obviously don't, hence expressions like "because they like it". - but you are nevertheless being ultra aggressively defensive - why would that be?

[chalawaan]

Imagine still enforcing religious tradition on  everyone on pain of criminalisation and imprisonment. 

 

The people, who for whatever deep and very dark reasons (they say it's "respect") are fine with kowtowing to a concept, not a even a person, not even an idol, but a concept, are fasci... nating individuals indeed! 

[Stargeezr]

Since I have been in my 70s I have slowed down my drinking. I do not drink hard liqeur except on a special

occasion. I drink less beer, and hardly drink wine at all. I guess I am entering the Golden years, as other things seem to cost more of my gold.

  Thailand has a lot of tourists most times of the year and it has always affected their visits. Most travelers like to have a few drinks

as the do not have to be sober the next day, due to their work. It would be good news to see a more liberal situation exist.

Harvey

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Perhaps I do...  isn't that what threads such as this are about ?

 

You are here protesting alcohol, I am here protesting the daft decisions for the 'special day' bans (and also the 2-5 laws). 

 

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It is amazing how vociferous people get in trying to defend their habit. All it does is confirm their blind dependance on the drug.

Here you go again...  you seem to want to accuse anyone who has an alcoholic drink of having a habit and being blindly dependent on a drug.

 

Can't you see that there is a perfectly healthy middle ground in which the vast proportion of society exist ???....  I'm not defending the extremes, I'm arguing on behalf of balance against the stupidity of 'one the extremes'..

 

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

it is also as I said earlier, sad that people really don't step back and think about their relationship with alcohol.

I agree with you, people 'should' always be looking at and evaluating their relationship with everything around them...  that includes foods etc.... 

 

 

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

The comment above is a classic example of this - what MADE you give up!! in fact I didn't even "give up" in the sense that I made a conscious decision to do so.

Thats quite the reach... You first used the term "give up" you have pre-loaded the discussion to suit your rhetoric... Give up, stopped - its the same thing unless you want to shoe horn the meaning to suit your agenda in this discussion.

 

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

But it is impossible for drinkers to see not drinking as anything else but in terms of "giving up" (a surrender or denial), such is the grip that drinking has on their lives.

No its not...  thats just your projection.  If you simply 'stopped' drinking one day, or slowly stopped, clearly drinking didn't have a grip on your life... why are you special ??? 

Can't others not be the same and go about their lives without alcohol having a grip on their life while also enjoying a drink if or when they want ????

Would you argue certain food types have a grip on peoples lives ?.... Good steaks ?... nice deserts ?

 

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

The answer to the question at the top is nothing, I just stopped and then gradually  realised after that, so much more about the relationship between society and alcohol. E.g this thread and the heated comments by drinkers.

I understand the point you want to make, but your points are all so fundamentally flawed because you paint with such a broad brush.

 

Everything we do has a relationship with society... Sports, food, work, driving, pets, all leisure activities...   

 

 

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I didn't "give up", I won

Won what exactly ?... not drinking wasn't exactly a challenge for you was it ???

 

And neither is it for many, myself included...  So... When posters voice the opinion make  that think these laws are stupid, its because the (we) think these laws are stupid, not because they (we) have an alcohol dependency issue !!! 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, kwilco said:

but you are nevertheless being ultra aggressively defensive - why would that be?

Am I ??....  Or am I taking the balanced middle ground against someone who is accusing anyone who likes to have a drink of having dependency issues ???

 

... Because, from my perspective it is you who has attacked a significant proportion of balanced minded society with an unhinged exaggerated accusation.

 

 

 

[sambum]

Come on Thailand  - let's Move Forward!

 

Do you not realise that in most of the civilised world, a holiday - religious or otherwise - is a time to relax from the "weekly grind", and what harm is there in people going out for a meal and having a couple of drinks?

 

Of course you are going to get the usual comments about more drunken drivers and more carnage on the roads, but let's face it - it can't get much worse!!!

 

If Thailand wants to Move Forward, they would encourage the "named driver" scenario, where one of the company stays sober in order to take the rest home safely, and the next night out it's somebody else's turn to stay sober!  ????

[sambum]

6 hours ago, IamNoone88 said:

No problem with a ban on alcohol. By the same token, its a pity the authorities cannot exert some control on the mosques in the south and around Phuket that ibody awakeygnore the legal noise levels to announce prayer time at a deafening pitch in the early hours - to locals and tourists alike. Way above the legal decibels allowed for the time of day at the source of the multiple speakers.

Agreed - and why not make dog owners responsible for their dogs barking and howling all night keeping every one awake?

[sambum]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

"The ban on specific days doesn’t impact me at all, I have plenty of beer in the fridge, a decent selection of good whiskies and a wine fridge full of various wines....  I’ll go weeks without a drink."

You are being incredibly predictable and clichéd  in your responses - we hear the same thing over and over.

 

In your haste to justify your "habit" you don't seem to have read my comments on alcohol restrictions either.

 

When I stopped drinking I met so many people who told mw "I could give up any time" - I can go foe weeks without a drink"

Firstly I wondered why they felt compelled to tell me and secondly they never did.

 

"Firstly I wondered why they felt compelled to tell me" Probably because you were "bragging" about stopping drinking?

"and secondly, they never did" - probably because they didn't want to?

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

"Firstly I wondered why they felt compelled to tell me" Probably because you were "bragging" about stopping drinking?

"and secondly, they never did" - probably because they didn't want to?

And now you will see your words twisted from 'probably because they didn't want to'... to... 'because they were in denial of their alcohol dependancy' !!!... 

 

 

[sambum]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

And now you will see your words twisted from 'probably because they didn't want to'... to... 'because they were in denial of their alcohol dependancy' !!!... 

 

 

The thing about these bigots is that they can not/do not see the difference between the casual drinker, a frequent drinker, or an alcoholic - they are all "tarred with the same brush", but as you probably know, they are worlds apart! It's like saying that someone who has a joint of marijuana/cannabis now and again is a drug addict!!!

[swm59nj]

Amazing that issues regarding the consumption of alcohol is one of the major factors in Thailand. 

[kwilco]

48 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

"Firstly I wondered why they felt compelled to tell me" Probably because you were "bragging" about stopping drinking?

"and secondly, they never did" - probably because they didn't want to?

Whatever makes you feel batter - pity about no critical thinking thougjh.

[sambum]

16 minutes ago, swm59nj said:

Amazing that issues regarding the consumption of alcohol is one of the major factors in Thailand. 

Not really when tourism accounts for a high % of GDP! 

[jts-khorat]

6 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

And don't start the.......tourists should check thing.

Weird. That is exactly what I would suppose tourists to be doing, if they want to come to a far away foreign country to immerse themselves in the culture. Why else travel in the first place, if you want to have everything exactly like at home?

 

That being said, not everything needs to make sense. Like when landing in Dubai, I would be very careful to not have eaten bread sprinkled with poppy seeds (a very common thing to eat in Germany at breakfast, but a single seed, even free of opium alkaloids, will still get you a multi-year jail term there). When landing in New York, I would not want to sit at a street corner with a beer bottle open in my hand ("land of the free!"), even though this is the most normal thing to do in Germany. When in Indonesia I would rather not smoke a joint openly in the street, while in Germany you might just get away with it (it is not technically legal, but ignored if you are not too blatant).

 

Etc, I think you get my drift: all my examples are about drug use, legal in one place but not in another. Thailand has its own quirks here, so if you are dependent on the regular consumption of a particular drug, being informed in the age of the internet is the easiest thing to do. There really is no excuse.

[kwilco]

Drinkers are a pretty predictable group as are most people dependant of drugs.

 

One needs to understand that addiction or dependency on alcohol is a very complex issue, and quitting can be challenging for some individuals. So confronting it is often beyond the ken of many drinkers whilst others remain in denial as they fear facing or miscalculate the consequences of a life without the drug.

 

"I can give up whenever I want" is a common phrase used by drinkers – but of course, they never do. It’s merely a form of self-assurance or a way to downplay their dependency on alcohol.

 

The reasons for this piece of self-deception can include

Denial, by stating that they can quit whenever they want, they may be trying to convince themselves or others that they have control over their drinking habits.

Justification. It’s used as an attempt to justify current drinking behaviour. By asserting control, they feel justified in continuing to drink because they have convinced themselves and they think others, that they can stop at any time.

Then there is social pressure. In many social circles or peer groups, excessive alcohol consumption is normalized or even encouraged. By claiming they can quit whenever they want, drinkers try to deflect concerns or judgments from others about their drinking habits, often by trying to claim the others drink too….they often don’t realise they are the only one intoxicated I the room.

Other drinkers use this statement to downplay the negative consequences of their drinking. By asserting that they could quit easily, they feel that they have avoided facing the reality of the harm alcohol may be causing to their health, relationships, or other aspects of their life.

[2baht]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So you can be amongst likeminded people who impose their beliefs on others !!!... 

 

 

 

My opinion, if you want to drink, up to you, bottoms up! You believe what YOU want! I really dont care what you do!

[Albaby]

9 hours ago, 2baht said:

Why would I?

You share certain inclinations. Ban it . stone them, cut off their hands, hang them etc.  Cheers

[Albaby]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

Drinkers are a pretty predictable group as are most people dependant of drugs.

 

One needs to understand that addiction or dependency on alcohol is a very complex issue, and quitting can be challenging for some individuals. So confronting it is often beyond the ken of many drinkers whilst others remain in denial as they fear facing or miscalculate the consequences of a life without the drug.

 

"I can give up whenever I want" is a common phrase used by drinkers – but of course, they never do. It’s merely a form of self-assurance or a way to downplay their dependency on alcohol.

 

The reasons for this piece of self-deception can include

Denial, by stating that they can quit whenever they want, they may be trying to convince themselves or others that they have control over their drinking habits.

Justification. It’s used as an attempt to justify current drinking behaviour. By asserting control, they feel justified in continuing to drink because they have convinced themselves and they think others, that they can stop at any time.

Then there is social pressure. In many social circles or peer groups, excessive alcohol consumption is normalized or even encouraged. By claiming they can quit whenever they want, drinkers try to deflect concerns or judgments from others about their drinking habits, often by trying to claim the others drink too….they often don’t realise they are the only one intoxicated I the room.

Other drinkers use this statement to downplay the negative consequences of their drinking. By asserting that they could quit easily, they feel that they have avoided facing the reality of the harm alcohol may be causing to their health, relationships, or other aspects of their life.

Always a good idea to attribute when you copy and paste.

[2baht]

11 minutes ago, Albaby said:

You share certain inclinations. Ban it . stone them, cut off their hands, hang them etc.  Cheers

Absolute rubbish! Fix yourself another G & T!

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Frankie baby said:

I remember some months back that the guy in charge of the 11-5 ban had actually forgot why it was imposed in the first place.

Wasn't the reasoning something  about schoolkids buying it?

Not sure why so many are making such a fuss over these couple of days a year shops and bars have to close....the silly morning and afternoon closures are more of a shopping hassle. Don't like it... move on and stop crying like babies who had their milk taken off them. 

 

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

Weird. That is exactly what I would suppose tourists to be doing, if they want to come to a far away foreign country to immerse themselves in the culture.

Immerse themselves in the culture?  We clearly live on different planets.  Thailand is popular with Western males - for the same reason as it always has been.  Its popular with young people and backpackers who come to party.  If a few young girls buying and wearing 'Elephant pants' is immersing in the culture, then you could have a point.

 

People coming because of the ability to smoke weed?  Doubtful, the fact that weed is still illegal in many countries doesn't stop vast quantities of it being consumed every day.  You might also note that the weed that most people smoke is actually still illegal in Thailand and anyone checking out the talk of it being legal will soon find that out. THC content of 0.2% might just about get a gnat high and anything above that remains illegal. Some may feel a little free-er to smoke weed in Thailand but I doubt that affected their decision to choose the country for their holiday.

 

Thailand was becoming increasingly popular as a family holiday destination but with flight prices as they are currently, I suspect that market will have been sincerely curtailed.  I doubt many UK families for example, will be prepared to pay £6000 for flights (family of 4). 

 

Overall, whilst people may look at a few websites and read some reviews, I doubt many come to immerse themselves in the culture and I very much doubt that they will be aware of any alcohol bans. What they are most likely to have checked out is the best beaches and general sighseeing attractions.  I'm told that visits to the floating markets and places like the bridge in Kanchanaburi are still popular but I would hardly class that as ' culture immersion'.

 

I'll be honest, I haven't spoken to many on the subject but as a regular traveller, I do get involved in conversations with other passengers on flights and on the occasions when I've made someone aware that they are flying in to an alcohol ban, their reaction has been disbelief and disappointment.

 

People like a drink when they are away on holiday, whether that's getting ratted in a nightclub or a glass of wine with dinner.  I would guess that for many, its when they drink the most.

[Albaby]

1 hour ago, 2baht said:

Absolute rubbish! Fix yourself another G & T!

OK, I'll close the blinds first, in case you've notified the authorities. Cheers

[Albaby]

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

You are the one who is dichotomising my argument which is that people don't question their relationship with alcohol which you obviously don't, hence expressions like "because they like it". - but you are nevertheless being ultra aggressively defensive - why would that be?

You must be a hoot to have a glass of water with.