‘We Need to Start Killing’: Trump’s Far-Right Supporters Are Threatening Civil War

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Maybe he's been misrepresented as first rate?

Nah, just by you Trump diehards

 

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c54a03f3fab931e1JmltdHM9MTY4Njc4NzIwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYWM5ZjhkZC1mOTRhLTYzYWEtMzM5Zi1lYWY2ZjhjNTYyZmYmaW5zaWQ9NTQ3MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1ac9f8dd-f94a-63aa-339f-eaf6f8c562ff&psq=Is+jack+smith+a+first+rate+attorney&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNi8wOC91cy9wb2xpdGljcy9qYWNrLXNtaXRoLXNwZWNpYWwtY291bnNlbC10cnVtcC1pbmRpY3RtZW50Lmh0bWw&ntb=1

 

Jack Smith, appointed in November to investigate former President Donald J. Trump, is a hard-driving, flinty veteran Justice Department prosecutor chosen for his experience in bringing high-stakes cases against politicians in the United States and abroad.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Maybe.

From the indictment at 34. Senior Military Official is Milley

 

TRUMP Well, with [the Senior Military Official] , let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack [ Country A ] . Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up.
Look This was him. They presented me this this is off the record, but they  presented me this . This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
 

 

Except Milley said he never wrote any document as described.

 

And per CNS News link above:

 

Attorneys for Trump informed the Justice Department that they've not been able to locate a classified document related to Iran sought by investigators that was discussed during a recorded meeting, two people with knowledge of the case confirmed to CBS News. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nah, just by you Trump diehards

 

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c54a03f3fab931e1JmltdHM9MTY4Njc4NzIwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYWM5ZjhkZC1mOTRhLTYzYWEtMzM5Zi1lYWY2ZjhjNTYyZmYmaW5zaWQ9NTQ3MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1ac9f8dd-f94a-63aa-339f-eaf6f8c562ff&psq=Is+jack+smith+a+first+rate+attorney&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNi8wOC91cy9wb2xpdGljcy9qYWNrLXNtaXRoLXNwZWNpYWwtY291bnNlbC10cnVtcC1pbmRpY3RtZW50Lmh0bWw&ntb=1

 

Jack Smith, appointed in November to investigate former President Donald J. Trump, is a hard-driving, flinty veteran Justice Department prosecutor chosen for his experience in bringing high-stakes cases against politicians in the United States and abroad.

 

 

Brings high-stakes cases that end up nowhere. Hope so.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

From the indictment at 34. Senior Military Official is Milley

 

TRUMP Well, with [the Senior Military Official] , let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack [ Country A ] . Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up.
Look This was him. They presented me this thisis off the record, but they  presented me this . This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
34.
WRITER Wow.
TRUMP: We looked  at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff pages long look.
STAFFER: Mm.
TRUMP: Wait  a minute, let's see here.
STAFFER: Laughter] Yeah.
TRUMP just  found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: Mm- hm.
TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential

 

Except Milley said he never wrote any document as described.

Mmmm...

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

That's not the impression he gave in his Bedminster speech, he was in top form.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/13/trump-new-jersey-speech-after-arraignment

Trump was on top form......lol

 

May be for flat earthers sure

 

Fact-checking Donald Trump’s Bedminster speech following documents indictment

https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/jun/14/fact-checking-donald-trumps-bedminster-speech-foll/

 

Trump’s Distortions of Federal Indictment

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/06/trumps-distortions-of-federal-indictment/

 

Trump’s Misleading Defenses in the Classified Documents Case

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/13/us/politics/trump-indictment-documents-fact-check.html

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Brings high-stakes cases that end up nowhere. Hope so.

So you did not read the entire article, just decided his cases ended up nowhere....is that also how you looked at the Trump indictment, glassing over it without actually reading it from top to bottom.  Here I will cut to the chase:

 

You read this and nothing else didn't you:

 

Among his more notable corruption cases was a conviction of Robert McDonnell, the Republican former governor of Virginia, that was later overturned by the Supreme Court, and a conviction of former Representative Rick Renzi, Republican of Arizona, whom Mr. Trump pardoned during his final hours as president.

.............

Here's the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say:

 

By late 2017, he had grown restless and jumped at the chance to move to The Hague to oversee the prosecution of defendants accused of war crimes in the Kosovo conflict in the late 1990s, after having served a stint there as a junior investigator earlier in his career.

 

When Mr. Garland’s aides contacted Mr. Smith, he and his team were fresh off the conviction of a high-ranking official in Kosovo and preparing a case against the country’s former president, Hashim Thaci, who has been connected with the killings of 100 Albanians, Roma and Serbs.

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So you did not read the entire article, just decided his cases ended up nowhere....is that also how you looked at the Trump indictment, glassing over it without actually reading it from top to bottom.  Here I will cut to the chase:

 

You read this and nothing else didn't you:

 

Among his more notable corruption cases was a conviction of Robert McDonnell, the Republican former governor of Virginia, that was later overturned by the Supreme Court, and a conviction of former Representative Rick Renzi, Republican of Arizona, whom Mr. Trump pardoned during his final hours as president.

.............

Here's the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say:

 

By late 2017, he had grown restless and jumped at the chance to move to The Hague to oversee the prosecution of defendants accused of war crimes in the Kosovo conflict in the late 1990s, after having served a stint there as a junior investigator earlier in his career.

 

When Mr. Garland’s aides contacted Mr. Smith, he and his team were fresh off the conviction of a high-ranking official in Kosovo and preparing a case against the country’s former president, Hashim Thaci, who has been connected with the killings of 100 Albanians, Roma and Serbs.

I read it and more. 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

If he is going to use the meeting to prove that Trump knew that documents in his possession were still classified he may hit a snag if it is proved the documents described were non-existent.

Actually, there seems to be a lot of potential testimony to the contrary including but not limited to Evan Corcoran, his lawyer.

[jerrymahoney]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually, there seems to be a lot of potential testimony to the contrary including but not limited to Evan Corcoran, his lawyer.

It is not certain that Corcoran's Washington DC grand jury testimony will be allowed in evidence at trial in Miami.

 

"During the investigation, Judge Beryl A. Howell of the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that the exception applied, forcing Mr. Trump’s lawyers to provide information to the grand jury. But Judge Cannon is not bound by Judge Howell’s decisions when it comes to what information should be presented to a jury."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/12/us/judge-aileen-cannon-trump-trial.html

 

And there does not seem to be other instances -- so far -- where the prosecution can say we have have Trump on audio record saying post-Presidency that:

 

See this document? It's still classified.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[ozimoron]

12 hours ago, TDCNINJA said:

The blue states (The Socialist States of America) don't have the political will, support from rank and file military members, training, military hardware or the majority of major combat arms military bases to attack the red states (The Conservative States of America) should red states leave the union. 

 

Hence the old leftist anti-war slogan "What if they started a war and nobody showed up?"

 

It's only a matter of time before red states demand a divorce. Personally, I think it's a win-win situation for both sides.  Who wants to live with people you despise?

What are they going to do for money? The red states are the biggest recipients of federal funding. The cities generate the cash and they are where the educated population congregates in the main.

 

Odd that you despise people because of their politics.

[jerrymahoney]

Early morning addendum to the above:

 

Trump Recording Is Indictment's 'Smoking Gun' Evidence: Former Prosecutor
6/10/23 AT 12:03 AM EDT

 

"The audio tape of Donald Trump discussing a classified document with individuals who did not have security clearance is "the smoking gun piece of evidence" in the federal indictment of the ex-president, former prosecutor Joyce Vance said."

 

"The tape features Trump discussing a "highly confidential" record with his guests, and the former president says during the recording that he did not have the document declassified before he left the White House."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-recording-indictments-smoking-gun-evidence-former-prosecutor-1805705

 

Great. Except that it seems so far, the "highly confidential" record does not exist. Gen. Milley says that he never wrote a record as described. And the Trump defense in response to a subpoena says that they can't locate any such record as described.

[pomchop]

On 6/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, rattlesnake said:

Now let's see whether special council Smith actually has the "smoking gun" classified document against Trump.

It appears from what i have seen thus far that Jack Smith has enough "smoking guns" to fight trumpers threatened civil war.....and note that even if the Florida nitwit trumper judge stalls and delays and tries to get trump off the hook that Jack Smith may well also indict him in NJ as there were also crimes there and if that happens then a NJ judge and jury might not be inclined to roll over for the orange jesus...not to mention Jan 6 washington dc indictments along with likely coming Georgia indictments...Trump has bullied and bought his way out of legal problems his entire life but he is in a different league now where BS walks and facts talk.  Fortunately for prosecutors trump can't shut his big flappy mouth and keeps confessing and digging the hole even deeper....keep it up donnie boy and lets see how it works out for you in court.

 

 

Go sit in prison for a few decades and whine to fellow inmates about how everyone is always picking on little donnie and see how much sympathy they give trump.

[jerrymahoney]

To the above: Some of those scenarios might not just affect the 2024 Presidential Election but also the 2028 Presidential Election.

[Bkk Brian]

At the end of the day, its now going to be in the hands of the jury. This is an interesting article on how this may play out:

 

The Genius of Leaving Trump’s Fate Up to 12 Ordinary Floridians

It is hard to imagine a case that places more pressure on the functioning of the jury — or that more dramatically illustrates its unique value. The case against Mr. Trump does not just put a question of national security in the hands of the jury. It puts in its hands a case that is unprecedented, involving a former — and perhaps future — leader of the nation. The security policy stakes are high. The political stakes may be higher.

The jury system’s constitutional authority makes it, at its best, an essential check on government overreach. In a case like this, its democratic legitimacy also gives it a better chance than any other governing institution to render a judgment that can withstand the political firestorm ahead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/14/opinion/donald-trump-indictment-florida-jurors.html

 

no paywall............https://archive.ph/CpRnM

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Genius of Leaving Trump’s Fate Up to 12 Ordinary Floridians

Also from the above:

 

But negotiating those accommodations, which must happen before the trial, can take time — time that in this case brings us ever closer to the 2024 election in which the defendant is now a leading candidate.

 

If the judge says no to compromises like summarizing key documents, the prosecution might decide that some are simply too complex or too sensitive to put at issue in the case.

[pomchop]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

Brings high-stakes cases that end up nowhere. Hope so.

yeah boy really pulling for a criminal with piles of evidence of committed crimes to get off scot free and maybe try and stage another coup ...i will place my bets on jack smith but go ahead and have another shot of kool aide and pull for the biggest loser...

[pomchop]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Also from the above:

 

But negotiating those accommodations, which must happen before the trial, can take time — time that in this case brings us ever closer to the 2024 election in which the defendant is now a leading candidate.

 

If the judge says no to compromises like summarizing key documents, the prosecution might decide that some are simply too complex or too sensitive to put at issue in the case.

So charge him in NJ for the crimes committed at his NJ golf club and get a real judge and a non kool aid jury....add in jan 6 charges to be tried in DC and georgia charges tried in georgia.....note that smith did not add the NJ crimes in the florida indictment as he may well be saving that for a NJ charge or ten and once again thanks to trumps big flapping mouth he has admitted having the docs in NJ as well as showing them off...all on tape in his own words...

 

sadly once again the republican judges like clarence thomas and cannon have NO CLUE (or morals) that they should recuse themselves when they have conflicts ....rule one of judges is ....avoid even the appearance of conflicts......don't underestimate jack smith....Barr for once got it right...trump is toast and he knows his only hope is delay delay delay plus even with that he would still have to get re elected and then try and pardon himself neither of which is likely....

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

once again thanks to trumps big flapping mouth he has admitted having the docs in NJ as well as showing them off...all on tape in his own words...

But the Milley docs that he claimed to be showing off on the tape at least up until now don't exist.

 

Trump might be subject to indictments in multiple venues but the scenarios as suggested above will take years to process and go through appellate stages.

 

I do not underestimate Jack Smith if that was directed at me.

 

But I can read the indictment. And if even one of the claims in the indictment becomes questionable to the jury, that could end the whole thing right there regardless of which judge is running the show.

Edited June 16, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[pomchop]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

But the Milley docs that he claimed to be showing off on the tape at least up until now don't exist.

 

Trump might be subject to indictments in multiple venues but the scenarios as suggested above will take years to process and go through appellate stages.

actually we have no idea of what evidence jack smith may have for a NJ indictment as smith, unlike trump, keeps his cards close to his vest....separate crimes can be charged in separate venues as far as i know...and as said there is also the jan 6 mess along with the Georgia mess...i frankly doubt that trump would be able to run out the clock on all the possible indictments as sooner or later a judge will put his foot down on delays....and no matter what trump would still have to WIN potus again even if he is able to drag it all out which is frankly very doubtful....any way u slice it trump has a world of potential legal problems and i am betting that at least one of them will result in a conviction and jail time.....

[jerrymahoney]

1 minute ago, pomchop said:

any way u slice it trump has a world of potential legal problems and i am betting that at least one of them will result in a conviction and jail time.....

Well I would agree with that especially the Georgia situation if you have ever read the  entire one hour Raffensperger phone call.

 

As for any actual jail time, an agreement between the state or federal corrections authorities and the Secret Service would have to be worked out.

[pomchop]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well I would agree with that especially the Georgia situation if you have ever read the  entire one hour Raffensperger phone call.

 

As for any actual jail time, an agreement between the state or federal corrections authorities and the Secret Service would have to be worked out.

yep georgia seems pretty cut and dried....i would also like to see Lyndsey graham and a few others get charged in that one.   .maybe Lyndsey and donnie can share a cell...

[EVENKEEL]

10 minutes ago, pomchop said:

yep georgia seems pretty cut and dried....i would also like to see Lyndsey graham and a few others get charged in that one.   .maybe Lyndsey and donnie can share a cell...

predictions = fantasy land

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

predictions = fantasy land

I don't know about cut and dried but Trump is on the recorded phone call warning Raffensperger and his staff that it is a criminal offense if he does not (again) diligently try to find more  illegal Georgia votes.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

It is not certain that Corcoran's Washington DC grand jury testimony will be allowed in evidence at trial in Miami.

 

"During the investigation, Judge Beryl A. Howell of the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that the exception applied, forcing Mr. Trump’s lawyers to provide information to the grand jury. But Judge Cannon is not bound by Judge Howell’s decisions when it comes to what information should be presented to a jury."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/12/us/judge-aileen-cannon-trump-trial.html

 

And there does not seem to be other instances -- so far -- where the prosecution can say we have have Trump on audio record saying post-Presidency that:

 

See this document? It's still classified.

 

Even if Corcoran is not allowed to testify, the fact is that the document he authored that was signed onto by another lawyer is patently false. And it will be easy to show that Trump must have known it was false. After all, classified documents were found in his bedroom, mixed in among his other personal effects. Since the attorney was an agent of Trump, Trump will be liable for allowing a false document to be conveyed to the Justice Dept.

[jerrymahoney]

What you describe is item 71. of the indictment which refers to false documents signed by Attorney 3 who Ms. Christina Bobb. 

 

Count 32 is Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice.

 

 

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

predictions = fantasy land

you mean like the fantasy land of stolen elections and the call was perfect and everything i do is perfect and i have the absolute right to keep stolen classified docs and i really care about all my individual cult members and loyal morons and i am a great Christian and a very tough guy and i had bone spurs to avoid draft but can't remember which foot though i am really smart and i don't need anybody's money as i am really really rich and be sure and sign up for trump university and on and on and on....got it

[jerrymahoney]

From the transcript of Judge Goodman's remarks at the June  13 Miami US Court arraignment:

 

"As required by Rule 5 (f ) of the Rules of Criminal Procedure , the United States is ordered to disclose to the Defendant all exculpatory evidence ; that is, evidence that favors the Defendant or casts doubt on the United States's case as required by Brady vs. Maryland and its progeny ."

 

"The Government has a duty to disclose any evidence that goes to negating the Defendant's guilt , the credibility of a witness or that would reduce a potential sentence."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/14/us/politics/usa-v-donald-j-trump-waltine-nauta.html

 

To which some wags on here and elsewhere would reply: 

 

What exculpatory evidence??

Edited June 16, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[jerrymahoney]

5 hours ago, pomchop said:

sadly once again the republican judges like clarence thomas and cannon have NO CLUE (or morals) that they should recuse themselves when they have conflicts ....rule one of judges is ....avoid even the appearance of conflicts....

Judge Orders Lawyers in Trump Case to Start Getting Security Clearances

Judge Aileen Cannon gave the defense team until Tuesday to begin the process, underscoring how classified information will be fundamental to the trial.

 

The order by Judge Cannon, who faced a barrage of criticism last year for issuing rulings favorable to Mr. Trump at an early stage of the investigation, suggested that at least for now she has no plans to recuse herself from the case. It was also a preliminary indication that she has decided to move things forward relatively briskly.

 

The order presaged what is likely to be a pitched legal battle over how to handle the sensitive documents at the center of the case without causing undue damage to national security.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/15/us/politics/judge-trump-documents-security-clearances.html

 

https://archive.is/H3aCA

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Berkshire]

19 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

DNC supporters are in no position to lecture about violence or election denial. The useless Mueller investigation into "Russian collusion" wasted 32 million dollars and two years of valuable time/ressources. Not to mention the impeachment of Trump for alleged "abuse of power" in which he was acquitted.

The Mueller investigation occurred during the Trump administration and was created by the Trump administration.  Why are you dragging "DNC supporters" into this?

[heybruce]

21 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

DNC supporters are in no position to lecture about violence or election denial. The useless Mueller investigation into "Russian collusion" wasted 32 million dollars and two years of valuable time/ressources. Not to mention the impeachment of Trump for alleged "abuse of power" in which he was acquitted.

I could not find any Mueller investigation into "Russian collusion".  I did find a report titled "Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election" .  If describes an investigation that found significant Russian interference.  Is that the investigation you were referring to?