Thailand braces for liquor industry disruption under Move Forward

[still kicking]

5 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

yeah... yeah... yeah... yeahhhhhhhh

yeah... yeah... yeah... yeahhhhhhhh

yeah... yeah... yeah... yeahhhhhhhh

yeah... yeah... yeah... yeahhhhhhhh

 

i truly dislike 2 faced pitiful pita and the shinawat clan and hope they both rot in monitor lizard dung. but i do hope the oligarchs of brewing have a run for their money

What are you drinking?

[paul1804]

6 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

Also the import duty and tax on wine needs examination. In Italy last week I enjoyed a bottle of Pinot Grigio for 3 euros, probably 25% of the cost in Thailand.

 

The domestic wine industry is so small the excuse of protecting it is very shallow, the tax is more of an income generator for the Government.

Its not about protecting the local wine competition but protecting Mr Chang & Mr Singha !!!!

[Bday Prang]

6 hours ago, Venom said:

Promote liquor and ban cannabis! 

 

5 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

I'll drink to that!

Oh the hypocrisy 

[geisha]

3 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

But as the Thai middle class, middle income,  grows more of those Thais are drinking wine, usually though it's the low priced imports. Perhaps because outside Bangkok and tourist / expat hotspots it's hard to find "middle" priced wines on shelves or in restaurants. You have to look online. For decent wine one pays alot more than in wine producing countries in Europe. In the UK there's a wide choice from all the wine producing areas of the world but prices are not so different to Thailand due to high duty levels.

Yes, I spend lots of time in Bangkok and often have a drink somewhere where they have bands. Most of the Thais I see there drink cocktails these days. Decent ones too ,much better than a glass of wine that is awful, I only drink wine in France and Italy where even for 5 € there is a good choice. My other favorite is an Aperol Spritz, good Prosecco and great in the  summer heat ( 30c  + today). Maybe a ladies drink for you guys, but everyone drinks it in Italy, even France now.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

The domestic wine industry is so small the excuse of protecting it is very shallow, the tax is more of an income generator for the Government.

As are all taxes worldwide....... why should wine get a free pass?

[HaoleBoy]

It isn't just Craft Beer.  They could begin making good quality Rum or Cachaca if they weren't hindered so much by current laws.

 

Take a look at Brasil and the many kinds of Cachaca are distilled there.  They have the very bottom level of Cachaca that will definitely give you a headache the next day all the way up to very fine sipping Cachaca's.  Cachaca Houses exist in N Brasil where you can go in and taste from the barrels.  

 

Cachaca is distilled from fermented sugar cane

Rum is distilled from sugar cane and molasses

[h90]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Thai beer is only rivaled by Serbian beer, and the mass produced American beers, in terms of the very low quality. Poor grade of hops, barely, and the production process seems to be entirely lacking in pride. Typical of the big monopolies. Even a large production beer, like Beer Laos blows away any Thai beer, hands down. Thailand desperately needs a vital craft beer movement, and the youth are ready to mount it. If only the dinosaurs would stop protecting their "bankers" and move out of the way. In other words, allow some progress, you mindless simpletons! 

 

Just to make sure small brewers were thoroughly intimidated, the rewrite also increased inflated penalties. Fines were increased from their original, almost quaint 200 baht ($6) for possession of bootleg alcohol to 10,000 ($300). For actually brewing without a license, fines were increased from 5,000 baht ($150) to a range of 50,000–100,000 baht ($1,600–$3,200), plus jail time. Reporting in 2017, The Bangkok Post estimated that in order to meet the new regulations, a brewer would need to have a billion baht—around $30 million—in start-up capital. 

 

For some, craft beer is associated with anti-establishment politics. “It’s very similar to the French Revolution, which started from a cafe in Paris, where people drank coffee,” says Taopiphop. “The fuel of the revolution is not coffee any more, it’s craft beer.” Taopiphop adds that, after the 2014 coup in Thailand, many pro-democracy activists chose to meet in Bangkok’s craft beer bars.

 

Something has to change. Giving a near monopoly to huge corporations that make inferior products is never a good thing for society. 

 

 

And a lot chemicals are used in Thai beer. I once was on a scuba diving boat with a salesguy for it from Germany...who visit the Thai factories and he called it an extreme usage that wouldn't be allowed in Germany.....And that the factories are very old fashioned. that the Singaporian customer are way better in production quality.

That happens with lack of competition.

Yes many of the Yellow who were against dictatorship (of the Thaksin Oligarchy) and state control did not notice what Prayut did with the freedom of money, CBDC, immigration, vaccines, import/exports, freedom of business, alcohol, beer....Because it was their guy so they didn't criticize him. If Thaksin would have done the same they would have been on fire...

[h90]

1 hour ago, HaoleBoy said:

It isn't just Craft Beer.  They could begin making good quality Rum or Cachaca if they weren't hindered so much by current laws.

 

Take a look at Brasil and the many kinds of Cachaca are distilled there.  They have the very bottom level of Cachaca that will definitely give you a headache the next day all the way up to very fine sipping Cachaca's.  Cachaca Houses exist in N Brasil where you can go in and taste from the barrels.  

 

Cachaca is distilled from fermented sugar cane

Rum is distilled from sugar cane and molasses

Just bought some Rum from Cuba, a very fine product...and thought myself why Thailand can't do the same?

[h90]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

As are all taxes worldwide....... why should wine get a free pass?

not a free pass, but the taxes on wine are way higher than in many countries.....having VAT is fair enough...or maybe an extra 10%.....

[h90]

8 hours ago, geisha said:

Yes, I spend lots of time in Bangkok and often have a drink somewhere where they have bands. Most of the Thais I see there drink cocktails these days. Decent ones too ,much better than a glass of wine that is awful, I only drink wine in France and Italy where even for 5 € there is a good choice. My other favorite is an Aperol Spritz, good Prosecco and great in the  summer heat ( 30c  + today). Maybe a ladies drink for you guys, but everyone drinks it in Italy, even France now.

good clean every days wine from the farmer in good quality was 1-2 Euro per liter in Austria.....prices might have changed and it is now 2-3 Euro per liter.

you could buy wine in tetra pack...surely not a top product, but clean taste and no headache...was 1 Euro in the supermarket...maybe now 2 Euro

[h90]

9 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

 

Oh the hypocrisy 

Maybe if some Oligarch invest in Marijuana than it keeps legal?? But they have also the Pharma industry against it as can be a cheap medicine.

[jacko45k]

Just now, h90 said:

not a free pass, but the taxes on wine are way higher than in many countries.....having VAT is fair enough...or maybe an extra 10%.....

But why wine particularly.... ? Some countries it is not even allowed.

Taxes in luxury good, like sports cars is even higher than the  60% import tariff on wines.  Traditionally the 3rd world has always hit non essential imports tax wise.......If removed from wines, taxes would have to go on something else. 

[jacko45k]

12 minutes ago, h90 said:

Just bought some Rum from Cuba, a very fine product...and thought myself why Thailand can't do the same?

They do...Regency is supposed to be very good.... but it got expensive!

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

But why wine particularly.... ? Some countries it is not even allowed.

Taxes in luxury good, like sports cars is even higher than the  60% import tariff on wines.  Traditionally the 3rd world has always hit non essential imports tax wise.......If removed from wines, taxes would have to go on something else. 

            I'm not sure how true it is. but I have heard several times that the importation of wine is ultimately controlled by just one or two well connected families, who have sufficient influence to manipulate the import duties , from which they are presumably able to benefit.

           Not that long ago, 5 years or so, there was a significant rise in the price of wine, a 5 litre box costing around 1000 baht morphed into a 3 litre box costing the same price.

[jaywalker2]

18 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

Also the import duty and tax on wine needs examination. In Italy last week I enjoyed a bottle of Pinot Grigio for 3 euros, probably 25% of the cost in Thailand.

 

The domestic wine industry is so small the excuse of protecting it is very shallow, the tax is more of an income generator for the Government.

Plus, it forces people to consume cheaper Thai spirits and beer. I don't know who's drinking Thai wine.

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Not that long ago, 5 years or so, there was a significant rise in the price of wine, a 5 litre box costing around 1000 baht morphed into a 3 litre box costing the same price.

Yes, perhaps the excise tax was added to import duty....tell me about it. The Mrs likes a glass at nighttime and I find it pricey... foreign brands of beer, made in Thailand are expensive too. (SML and Heiny for eg). Imported moreso..... lifes pleasures do not come cheap,

[Henryford]

18 hours ago, Purdey said:

If memory serves, the original reasons for the high tax on wine is that it is a luxury product and Thai people don't drink it. Well, not being a French colony that would be understandable, compared to Laos.

Thais don't drink it because they can't afford 500-1000 a bottle. If the tax was normal then a good wine might be 3-400 and they could sell much more.

[Bday Prang]

            I fail to see how they can actually keep a straight face , whilst contemplating the re-banning of cannabis "for the good of the country and the welfare of youth" when at the same time planning the  further promotion of alcohol including the 40% ABV "fire water" spirits

             Suddenly their concerns for road safety, the well being of the vulnerable, and the concerns for the effects on the culture, not to mention the fear of offending Buddhist sensitivities and the medical consequences seem to have disappeared, like a puff of smoke  

             And as for  the anti cannabis stalwarts on here expressing their delight at the possibility, I find the hypocrisy astonishing

[bamnutsak]

This is a pretty silly and out of date article.

 

Yes, the Prayut regime did try to undercut a future potentially larger MFP-sponsored bill, by liberalizing the brewing industry last November (2022).

 

Regulations amended to pre-empt liquor liberalization bill

 

The Prayut government on Tuesday moved to pre-empt the opposition’s bill to liberalize liquor production due for its second reading in the House of Representatives today by relaxing the ministerial regulations governing production of alcoholic drinks.

 

The amendment is widely seen as an attempt by the government to derail the opposition Move Forward party’s so-called liquor liberalization bill which is due to be taken up for its second and third reading by the House today.

 

“The bill is no longer necessary,” Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam said yesterday when asked if the amendment of the regulations was designed to pre-empt the bill.

 

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/regulations-amended-to-pre-empt-liquor-liberalization-bill/

 

 

 

This has resulted in a massive explosion of the already burgeoning craft beer market here. I'd say this has had a much larger impact than the similarly liberalized Cannabis flower markets.

 

MoveForward MP Taopiphop Limkittrakorn has some craft beer establishments.

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/brewer-politician-taopiphop-to-reopen-his-bar-friday-in-bangkok-again/

 

In the distilled spirits space (rice or sugarcane), these have been legal since the early 2000's though an OTOP loophole, with production concentrated (but not limited to) Phrae and Chaiyaphum. Advertising and online sales was prohibited but that restriction seems to have been lifted.

 

 

All that said, I would expect MFP/PTP to try to push through comprehensive legislation re: alcohol liberalization, not limited to production and distribution. They want to do away with the silly sales hour rules too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by bamnutsak

[Bday Prang]

23 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

They do...Regency is supposed to be very good.... but it got expensive!

25 + years ago Regency was around 400 bt a bottle It never seemed to get anymore expensive despite beer slowly increasing in price year after year no Idea what it costs these days I would imagine 500 bt + ? 

Regency for some reason, seems  to enjoy some sort of special status as i regularly see adverts for it on TV in the late evening and whilst they may not actually mention the word "Brandy" it is patently obvious they are not promoting soda water

[khunpeer]

19 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

Also the import duty and tax on wine needs examination. In Italy last week I enjoyed a bottle of Pinot Grigio for 3 euros, probably 25% of the cost in Thailand.

 

The domestic wine industry is so small the excuse of protecting it is very shallow, the tax is more of an income generator for the Government.

domestic wines I find also not that tasty, believe me I did thorough investigation! ????

only PB comes near, but pricewise they are all way to expensive!

cut the import duty on foreign wine, obviously they are much better quality!

but if Thailand would do so it would be much more consumed and at the end the income in taxes the same as before...

als encouraging people to drink wine instead of hard liquor could be a game changer for this society!

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

25 + years ago Regency was around 400 bt a bottle It never seemed to get anymore expensive despite beer slowly increasing in price year after year no Idea what it costs these days I would imagine 500 bt + ? 

Regency for some reason, seems  to enjoy some sort of special status as i regularly see adverts for it on TV in the late evening and whilst they may not actually mention the word "Brandy" it is patently obvious they are not promoting soda water

No it really started to increase in price about 3-4 years ago.. my Mrs used to buy herself a bottle each month so I heard all about it, Then she refused to pay the price, now I am buying cartons of wine to give her a drink before bedtime.. and that isn't cheap. I was played like a salmon!

[bamboozled]

I don't quite understand the "Beer Laos is great" gang. It isn't, in my opinion. It's just something other than the ubiquitous 3 Thai beers so perhaps it SEEMS better? Surely, I'm inviting a boatload of flack and I'll probably get death threats but...it just isn't that good. The gold foil is a nice marketing touch, to be sure. Also, the dark is a nice change of pace when icy cold and the black label tickles my graphic sensibilities. But like McDonald's french fries, once it loses the optimal temp, the enjoyment decline is precipitous. Again, IMHO. Cue the brigade.

 

There are a few Thai-born IPAs now that are quite tasty, IMHO. Not sure what brewing musical chairs they have to do to brew it but a tall-boy IPA for 119...def worth it now and again.

 

Lastly, when and why did Chang drop down to 5% alcohol from 6.4%? I miss my Changover!

[h90]

14 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

No it really started to increase in price about 3-4 years ago.. my Mrs used to buy herself a bottle each month so I heard all about it, Then she refused to pay the price, now I am buying cartons of wine to give her a drink before bedtime.. and that isn't cheap. I was played like a salmon!

yes there was some increase of tax...must have been 3-4 years ago....

[h90]

52 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

But why wine particularly.... ? Some countries it is not even allowed.

Taxes in luxury good, like sports cars is even higher than the  60% import tariff on wines.  Traditionally the 3rd world has always hit non essential imports tax wise.......If removed from wines, taxes would have to go on something else. 

They can keep some taxes.....and no it does not need to go somewhere else, Thailand has bloated bureaucracy......saving money.

I dream of having a government that has the idea to cut as many taxes as possible by saving money.....Do you know the government complex in Bangkok...or did you know that there are 77 provinces with local government and politicians give their friends some good payed jobs. I would imagine in bureaucracy there can be cut 75% of all people. Which than would make expenses cheaper as there is 75% less corruption.

500 MPs +250 Senators which mostly vote as a block with all the staff they have...cut it in half. How many army generals Thailand has?

We had uprisings in Europe when the royals want to take more than 10% tax. USA had a period without any internal taxes...only import duties.

That might be a bit extreme, but ever increasing state expenses by debts, increasing taxes or money printing will result in a disaster....just it needs a few years so the responsible politician is long out of office.

[h90]

9 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

I don't quite understand the "Beer Laos is great" gang. It isn't, in my opinion. It's just something other than the ubiquitous 3 Thai beers so perhaps it SEEMS better? Surely, I'm inviting a boatload of flack and I'll probably get death threats but...it just isn't that good. The gold foil is a nice marketing touch, to be sure. Also, the dark is a nice change of pace when icy cold and the black label tickles my graphic sensibilities. But like McDonald's french fries, once it loses the optimal temp, the enjoyment decline is precipitous. Again, IMHO. Cue the brigade.

 

There are a few Thai-born IPAs now that are quite tasty, IMHO. Not sure what brewing musical chairs they have to do to brew it but a tall-boy IPA for 119...def worth it now and again.

 

Lastly, when and why did Chang drop down to 5% alcohol from 6.4%? I miss my Changover!

yes drink a beer at room temperature and without the CO2...than you know the quality.

Ice cold and full with CO2 every garbage taste OK.....not my opinion that I learned at university....cover problems with more CO2 and cooler serving it.
(since a few years they press some CO2 into normal drinking wine....not enough that it bubbles, but still it helps with taste)

[pomchop]

Wine and cheese...both way overpriced in LOS.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

And a lot chemicals are used in Thai beer. I once was on a scuba diving boat with a salesguy for it from Germany...who visit the Thai factories and he called it an extreme usage that wouldn't be allowed in Germany.....And that the factories are very old fashioned. that the Singaporian customer are way better in production quality.

That happens with lack of competition.

Yes many of the Yellow who were against dictatorship (of the Thaksin Oligarchy) and state control did not notice what Prayut did with the freedom of money, CBDC, immigration, vaccines, import/exports, freedom of business, alcohol, beer....Because it was their guy so they didn't criticize him. If Thaksin would have done the same they would have been on fire...

Only history will reveal how regressive, draconian, repressive, incapable, and backward thinking Prayuth was. And in addition, he had nothing in the way of leadership qualities. He was a very poor choice. In 9 years he moved the nation backwards by 20 years. 

 

 

[Purdey]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Thais don't drink it because they can't afford 500-1000 a bottle.

Chicken and egg situation. Was wine 1,000 baht a bottle before tax went up?

[Bday Prang]

27 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

I don't quite understand the "Beer Laos is great" gang. It isn't, in my opinion. It's just something other than the ubiquitous 3 Thai beers so perhaps it SEEMS better? Surely, I'm inviting a boatload of flack and I'll probably get death threats but...it just isn't that good. The gold foil is a nice marketing touch, to be sure. Also, the dark is a nice change of pace when icy cold and the black label tickles my graphic sensibilities. But like McDonald's french fries, once it loses the optimal temp, the enjoyment decline is precipitous. Again, IMHO. Cue the brigade.

 

There are a few Thai-born IPAs now that are quite tasty, IMHO. Not sure what brewing musical chairs they have to do to brew it but a tall-boy IPA for 119...def worth it now and again.

 

Lastly, when and why did Chang drop down to 5% alcohol from 6.4%? I miss my Changover!

I'm with you on that nothing special about Beer Lao in my opinion either, no different to any other mass produced beer, as far I am concerned, although admittedly I'm no connoisseur and don't really drink for the taste, I will admit however that even I find "Archer" and "cheers" almost undrinkable

I definitely prefer chang to Leo, and whilst I have no real issues with Singha I haven't actually drunk it for years nobody I know drinks it either

I remember the 6.4% chang in the brown bottles, some of which were embossed with the word Carlsberg   just above the chang label. ( what happened to carlsberg it sort of disappeared)  It was a bit touch and go, sometimes foul and sometimes not too bad but a headache was nearly always guaranteed for me.

 I much prefer the newer brew in the green bottles, which I think was around the time the alcohol content was reduced and would rather drink that, than the very very similar but overpriced Heineken

Does anybody remember the brew called "black tiger" ( no relation to the modern day "Tiger" as far as I am aware, ) and not unlike the dark Beer Lao.  it was around about 25 years ago at the same time as "Black cat" whiskey but has long since disappeared. A pity as I used to quite like it