British student’s harrowing balcony plunge leaves him fighting for life in a Thailand hospital

[chalawaan]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If he were 'one drink over' ???...     I think the clause is unfair if the boundaries are 'tight'.

 

The policy wording of course matters, but when selling insurance to a 20 something year old, is there not an onus on the company to ensure what they are selling is fully understood by the customer ?

 

i.e. IF when shopping for insurance I was told by an insurance provider that I'm not insured for slips, trips or falls after 4 beers (BAC equivalent of) I'd go elsewhere, many would, as drinking on holiday is a very normal activity. 

 

I've read on this forum that some providers use the term 'reasonable consumption'...   whats reasonable ?

 

... of course, we still do not know what the cause of rejection was. That would help the discussion.

 

Reasonable is probably close to responsible national guidelines as per each gender. 

I noticed your ski insurance is World Nomads, they paid for my $17000 ICU stay in Clark, Philippines. 

 

This thread can get complicated quickly, because there are so many variables, and we don't know exactly what happened. 

It could be he was stone sober, and the insurance company are satisfied the balcony was sound and high enough to prevent a topple. Since the lad is in no state to speak, and likely shock has erased all memory of the event, insurance have to operate on the evidence.

If it's just not possible to fall from that balcony when using it safely, what else are they left with? 

Yes I've fallen in a wet shower in a hotel, but not OVER a balcony railing, and if that was the case, they'd know it was wet, and low, would they not? 

So all they have, is suicide or extreme silliness. 

 

I've seen a video of a young guy run up a wall, flip over then immediately throw himself over a balcony hundreds of metres high, grabbing the rail from the outside with one hand. Utter insanity! Stone cold sober, doing it for "likes". 

Edited July 6, 2023 by chalawaan

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

Reasonable is probably close to responsible national guidelines as per each gender. 

I noticed your ski insurance is World Nomads, they paid for my $17000 ICU stay in Clark, Philippines. 

Thats very good to know. 

 

Reviews of that company are good... 

I think they were about US$200 for a two week trip (skiing Japan) and thus seemed worth it. 

 

Then I see some people suggesting they are covered for $25 for their trips to Thailand and I wonder why those policies are so cheap. 

 

 

The question then begs... What did this young lad pay for his cover?....   

 

I've always had some form of cover through credit cards... Young and stupid when I first came here I thought that was sufficient. Its easy to be led into a false sense of security.

 

[chalawaan]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats very good to know. 

 

Reviews of that company are good... 

I think they were about US$200 for a two week trip (skiing Japan) and thus seemed worth it. 

 

Then I see some people suggesting they are covered for $25 for their trips to Thailand and I wonder why those policies are so cheap. 

 

 

The question then begs... What did this young lad pay for his cover?....   

 

I've always had some form of cover through credit cards... Young and stupid when I first came here I thought that was sufficient. Its easy to be led into a false sense of security.

 

Yes, I became very clause sensitive after my hospitalisation, 

Here's the twist in my tale...

 

The fall I mentioned in the wet bathroom? It was Chiang Mai and I was pissed as a newt! 

I landed on that Asian splash strip they put at the door, and broke a rib! (But didn't know it then). 

Then two years later, Singapore Airport installed those electronic passport gates, never having used them, I hesitated, they closed on me smashing the same rib, again, I'm still oblivious that it's busted, but it hurt so much I nearly collapsed, I think at this point, it starts bleeding microscopically into my lung, two months later I get pneumonia, they x-ray me and find the rib broken, but I still didn't make the broken rib connection until months after I had been paid out, and since broken ribs rarely mend, and I didn't present to casualty with that complaint, just pneumonia, which I didn't know I had, either, only that I felt I was dying. And my lung was filling up with muck!

 

So there you have it. 

 

[The Fugitive]

36 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

How many beers does it take to do really silly things? 

A lot. 

Insurance companies get these tragedies by the hour, they crunch the numbers to oblivion. 

 

I once side swiped a lad who was in a line of stationary cars. 

Nothing too serious, paintwork. 

I swore in all honesty he had turned into my path, insurance were adamant I had grazed him, on the phone they told me they knew by the pics of the damage who was at fault, they see it hundreds of times a day!

 

Same with the nature of the accident, I've been drinking on hotel balconies several times in this life and never managed to fall off. 

 

You're just not going to have that fall unless you're being daft and dangerous. 

 

I doubt he'll pull through in that state, pneumonia will get him if the injuries don't. 

A just a bleeding lung and pneumonia nearly killed me, but it was not due to any hi jinks and travel insurance paid out every penny. 

Very well reasoned comments. If anyone had to wager upon the cause I'm certain they would come up with; drink, drugs and silliness (or a combination). Reason for denying the claim almost certainly based on blood test results. However, as already posted above, we don't know for sure as yet.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

On 7/5/2023 at 7:13 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Consumption of alcohol does not necessarily void a policy, it is the excess consumption of alcohol (that would contribute to the incident) that generally does.

 

But you are right, if a person is inclined to over-imbibe there is no point in buying a policy that doesn't cover those circumstances.

Expand  

Drinking alcohol in a private apartment won't invalidate your insurance - if it was shown to be to the extant it incapacitated the persom they might question it.

I didn't say that just drinking alcohol (anywhere) invalidates policies, I said that excessive consumption leading to self-contributory claims is what voids the policy.   If the policy holder doesn't make a claim, insurers don't give a toss how much their policy holders drink as long as a claim isn't the result of it.

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, thailand49 said:

On 7/5/2023 at 7:13 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Consumption of alcohol does not necessarily void a policy, it is the excess consumption of alcohol (that would contribute to the incident) that generally does.

 

But you are right, if a person is inclined to over-imbibe there is no point in buying a policy that doesn't cover those circumstances.

Expand  

Agree!

Take great care agreeing with me in writing, some members will put you on their "Ignore" list for that crime!

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Naming the company is definitely a must in these cases. 

Why?   Assuming that the insurer's decision was justified (and there is no reason to suspect that it wasn't justified in this case, or any others recently) how could naming a company that denied a claim for a valid reason possibly be of benefit to anyone?     There are no insurers that make exceptions to the excessive consumption of alcohol conditions, they all have the same clauses in their policies, so, if your intent by naming the company would be to dissuade people from using that company based solely on what has been reported in this case, in favour of other insurers, that would be a complete waste of everyone's time.

[Liverpool Lou]

8 hours ago, nchuckle said:

9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I know, that's what I said. 

Just being over the policy's prescribed blood/alcohol limit is all the insurer needs for the policy to be voided.

No it wouldn't. If you were drunk sitting in a roadside bar which a car ran into injuring you there would be no contributory factor. The insurer would have no grounds to reject the claim and the ombudsman would rule as such 

Very obviously, my comment was made in the context of this OP in particular, not your unlikely scenario.   

 

If, however, you're happy believing that being pissed out of one's mind, in the circumstances that you dreamt up, wouldn't be a cause for a serious investigation by the pissed's insurer, you carry on.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Sheryl]

On 7/5/2023 at 7:38 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed..... 

.... Perhaps the insurance has a 'no-balconies' clause...  _(sarcasm)

 

IF the family are unclear of the circumstances of the fall, how can the insurance possibly refuse the claim - do they know something the family don't ???

 

It would be interesting to learn why the Travel Insurance company refused the claim (and who this company is).... Was it a 'booze clause' ?...   and if so, does that mean 100% no booze or reasonable amounts etc ?

 

 

 

 

 

Varies with policy but blood level that equates to legal intoxication is commonly used.

 

His alcohol blood level would likely be in his medical records.

 

Balcony falls are the type of thing that immediately raise insurer's suspicion of either intoxication or suicide attempt both of which would exclude coverage in pretty much any policy. 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I didn't say that just drinking alcohol (anywhere) invalidates policies, I said that excessive consumption leading to self-contributory claims is what voids the policy.   If the policy holder doesn't make a claim, insurers don't give a toss how much their policy holders drink as long as a claim isn't the result of it.

I'd love to ensure you - you'd never make a claim.

BTW - I'm talking about balconies.

[kwilco]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Varies with policy but blood level that equates to legal intoxication is commonly used.

 

His alcohol blood level would likely be in his medical records.

 

Balcony falls are the type of thing that immediately raise insurer's suspicion of either intoxication or suicide attempt both of which would exclude coverage in pretty much any policy. 

and if the balcony was. the right height, he wouldn't have fallen off it. - 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, chalawaan said:

 

It could be he was stone sober, and the insurance company are satisfied the balcony was sound and high enough to prevent a topple...

Not too many balconies in Thailand fit that description and certainly not those at hotels in back-packer type price range.

 

Even so, people don't tend to accidentally fall off even Thai balconies unless drunk/drugged or acting rashly.

[kwilco]

I have a friend who doesn't drink. 

He was standing on the deck of a bungalow, about 3 or 4 feet above the ground.

THey had just cleaned his room and washed the balcony.

A slight movement and he plummeted over the rails to the ground below hitting the corner of the steps on the way down and ended up in hospital with 3 broken ribs and bleeding on the lung. this was because th friction quality of the tiles was non-existant and the railing was too low.

[CHdiver]

15 hours ago, superal said:

When booking hotels in Thailand I try to book a ground floor room

Then you step outside and get hit by a low flying british Student on his way down. Only way to stay safe is in your bed ...... at home.

[Chelseafan]

20 hours ago, alex8912 said:

There are blood alcohol level info in British travel insurance policies? 

Nope never seen one....

 

My policy states that they won't cover for =

 

"Alcohol, drug or solvent abuse/misuse: such as drinking so
much alcohol that your judgement is seriously affected"

 

[chalawaan]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I understand not giving.

Either you're not feeling it, can't afford to, or both.

But I really don't understand objections to fundraising efforts.

Nobody is forced to give.

Hurt people, hurt people.  

[Pink Mist]

Troll posts removed 

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

I have a friend who doesn't drink. 

He was standing on the deck of a bungalow, about 3 or 4 feet above the ground.

THey had just cleaned his room and washed the balcony.

A slight movement and he plummeted over the rails to the ground below hitting the corner of the steps on the way down and ended up in hospital with 3 broken ribs and bleeding on the lung. this was because th friction quality of the tiles was non-existant and the railing was too low.

Was he 300cm tall? How high was the balcony? 

 

You crack me up. 

[Aussie999]

On 7/6/2023 at 7:20 AM, KhunLA said:

Doesn't take much of a guess.  Falling off a balcony is not the easiest thing to do.  BUT ... add a slab of beer, and it apparently is quite common with tourist.

 

Not a whole lot of reasons left to deny a claim.

 

Agree with others, it really is silly to have travel ins, at that age, on holiday, as myself, would always have alcohol in my system.  From sipping with meals, to full on party mode while on holiday.

 

It's simply what you do when a youngin, or what many expats continue to do in retirement/end of life, never ending holiday.  

 

Best escape clause there is for denying claims, and doesn't even have to be a high A/B limit, as a few beers would put you over any 'driving' limit.

 

Can't fault the ins companies, simply good business, and protects themselves.

 

If any of us were underwriting the policy, yea, you'd have an A/B limit clause in it also.

I didn't read all of your post, the first paragraph shows your lag of thinking, I could say "he could have been using drugs, he could have had a medical episode, he could have been physically frown over, etc.. so again, enough of the guessing. If you've been in Thailand, for some time, you will know that Thai rail height standards, do not exist, and are, in most cases, too low, making it easy for people to go over.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Aussie999

[Mitkof Island]

Foreigners = Balconies = Death. Twenty years and dozens of hotels with balconies. Have yet to fall off of any.

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

I didn't read all of your post, the first paragraph shows your lag of thinking, I could say "he could have been using drugs, he could have had a medical episode, he could have been physically frown over, etc.. so again, enough of the guessing.

If & when I start falling over 900mm walls, I'll start having a bit of empathy for those folks falling off balconies.

 

Seriously, how do you fall off a balcony ?

 

Medical episode ?  Who's guessing now ?  And alcohol is a drug.

Edited July 7, 2023 by KhunLA

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

If & when I start falling over 900mm walls, I'll start having a bit of empathy for those folks falling off balconies.

 

Seriously, how do you fall off a balcony ?

 

Medical episode ?  Who's guessing now ?

A common method is to sit on top of the railing and attempt to take a selfie. 

[Aussie999]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If & when I start falling over 900mm walls, I'll start having a bit of empathy for those folks falling off balconies.

 

Seriously, how do you fall off a balcony ?

 

Medical episode ?  Who's guessing now ?

Mate, this article has NOTHING to do with you, what point are you TRYING to make, please use some commonsense. As for "medical episode," just go back and re-read my post, especially the words "I COULD say." Geez And just where did you dig up this "900mm" from, anyway, I do know the Australian standard is 1m above the floor below it.. Oh, "And alcohol is a drug," geez sherlock, you amaze me.... but there are many other drugs, just what is wrong with you not to understand, the majority of readers understand, or are you just TRYING to justify your rediculous comments.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Aussie999

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

Mate, this article has NOTHING to do with you,

You did reply to me ... and yes, been in TH a long time, relative, and yet to see or been on a balcony I'd be able to fall over, unless as Sheryl stated, doing something really stupid.

 

Which ins co. have a escape clause for that also.

 

You can't fix stupid.   Millions of tourist every year, don't fall off balconies ... wonder why that is ?

[Yellowtail]

44 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

I didn't read all of your post, the first paragraph shows your lag of thinking, I could say "he could have been using drugs, he could have had a medical episode, he could have been physically frown over, etc.. so again, enough of the guessing. If you've been in Thailand, for some time, you will know that Thai rail height standards, do not exist, and are, in most cases, too low, making it easy for people to go over.

Do you have anything that supports your claim that "...Thai rail height standards, do not exist.." and or that rail heights "...are, in most cases, too low, making it easy for people to go over."?

 

I have not found this to be true in the time I have been here. 

[Yellowtail]

38 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A common method is to sit on top of the railing and attempt to take a selfie. 

Which of course is not what the railing was designed for, and which would make a higher railing even more precarious. 

[Chongalulu]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Very obviously, my comment was made in the context of this OP in particular, not your unlikely scenario.   

 

If, however, you're happy believing that being pissed out of one's mind, in the circumstances that you dreamt up, wouldn't be a cause for a serious investigation by the pissed's insurer, you carry on.

No,I was countering your incorrect assumption that being intoxicated was a catch to get out of paying any/all claims. Which clearly it isn’t. And insurers rightly carry out an investigation of any major claims - why would you expect different? 
Nor is being involved in a non blameworthy injury accident while over the limit an unlikely scenario. How about revellers in a club becoming victims of a fire (ring any bells??) unable to escape because of locked emergency exits..?

[wealthychef]

On 7/6/2023 at 7:15 AM, CecilM said:

Really? Two decades here and I’ve yet to see a balcony or railing at a mall/ hotel/resort where I thought “Oh, that looks a bit low”.

I've only been here about 5 years and I've seen plenty of dangerous railings.  They come right up to your butt, so that you just will flop over the railing if pushed. 

[CecilM]

12 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

I've only been here about 5 years and I've seen plenty of dangerous railings.  They come right up to your butt, so that you just will flop over the railing if pushed. 

Yeah, consider me baffled. I’ve never seen a butt-hight railing.

(Leading me to another thought: is this a cheaply-built thing in Pattaya? Might explain my lack of knowledge as I never go there.)

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

I've only been here about 5 years and I've seen plenty of dangerous railings.  They come right up to your butt, so that you just will flop over the railing if pushed. 

I would not say I've never seen a low railing here, but I certainly have not seen many. Can you provide an example of a hotel or whatnot where you've seen these low railings? 

 

I think the height of most people's center of mass is at their bellybutton, and it would be virtually impossible to fall or be pushed over a railing at or above that height.