Thai wife required to have work or Tabien Baan in province for marriage extension?

[sanooki]

I've been living in Thailand over 13 years, granted 5 marriage extensions and 7 work extensions. I have not been out of the country for 8 years. Two years ago, I converted my work extension to a marriage extension when I was retired from my uni job. My current wife and I have been together over 5 years, since we were married in her home. We married legally over 4 years ago. Neither she nor my ex wife worked at the time of any of my marriage extensions, nor were the extensions ever granted in my wives' home provinces.

 

We moved to Korat city 11 months ago, and inquired at my last 90 day report about requirements for marriage extension here. I have always done everything by the book with no real problems, other than the usual anomalies. Yesterday, we arrived at Korat immigration almost 2 weeks ahead of my extension expiration date. We went through pre-document review successfully. 

 

Once called to an officer's desk, I heard my wife being spoken to in an incredulous voice. My Thai is intermediate, but I surmised she was being asked why we were living in Korat. My wife explained that we came here on vacation and wanted to tour places here. I tried to help by reminding her that she also wanted to be closer to her family in Ubon, and that her father has family here in Korat, all true. Well, the officer on the desk called in her apparent supervisor, who grilled my wife on the same questions. I chimed in that I could live anywhere now, since I'm not working. My wife explained that she is a housewife, but is also exploring work ideas, and that we are also considering moving even closer to her family in Ubon.

 

Sorry for the lengthy explanations, but usually you folks want the context, so here it is. Bottom line is that the two lady officers said they were concerned that our application would be rejected in Khonkaen due to the fact that my wife does not have a job in Korat, nor does she have her Tabien Baan here. In all my time in Thailand, I have never seen this as a requirement for a marriage visa extension.

 

I can't find any mention of this requirement anywhere. Is it new? Is this a case of an over-zealous officer making a creative interpretation of some rule? If anyone can shed light, especially with references, I would be very appreciative. If I'm rejected, I would just get a retirement visa, but I had wanted to keep the option of working again open. Initially, I was waiting for the pandemic madness to subside before doing that.

 

Thanks much for your attention and patience.

[BritManToo]

My first marriage extension was in Chiang Mai.

I rented a house for us to live in, we stayed there 2 years.

Wife was registered in Petchabun and unemployed at the time.

 

If you're in Korat easier to get a multi entry Non-O from Savannahket, Laos.

Edited July 19, 2023 by BritManToo

[sanooki]

Thanks for your reply. Are you hinting at some particular problem with Korat? My wife and I might actually fancy a trip to Savannahket. I have been skittish about leaving the country these past few years, and I don't see why I should have to. But, maybe it's a good option.

 

The thing is, it seems to be setting up for the need to do that every year after. Oh, the other thing I didn't mention is that, as they were processing my paperwork, they said yesterday that if I was turned down, I would not be allowed another application of the same. I wonder if that would apply to an app made outside Thailand for a new marriage visa?

[VocalNeal]

17 minutes ago, sanooki said:

my wife does not have a job in Korat, nor does she have her Tabien Baan here.

So you rented a house in Korat or you are living temporarily in a hotel or resort????

[Callmeishmael]

I have been using a marriage extension for years without any probem.  My wife is unemployed and is registered on a Tabian Baan in Sukhothai and we live in Bangkok. 

 

However, we are required to submit a copy of the tabian Baan of the house we rent, along with a copy of the owner's ID.

[BritTim]

How long have you been in Korat? There is no rule, such as you cited, of your wife needing to be working or registered in Korat province. However, I think the officials were unconvinced by the explanation by you and your wife as to why you want to apply in Korat. They may suspect that you had a problem with the immigration office in your wife's "home" province, and are trying to circumvent whatever those imagined problems might be.

[sanooki]

22 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

So you rented a house in Korat or you are living temporarily in a hotel or resort????

Thanks. It's an apartment, and it's in my name on the lease. I submitted the Tabien Baan of my landlord. I have done the same for all my recent extensions since it's been required. I was also trying to puzzle this possible connection.

[sanooki]

15 minutes ago, Callmeishmael said:

I have been using a marriage extension for years without any probem.  My wife is unemployed and is registered on a Tabian Baan in Sukhothai and we live in Bangkok. 

 

However, we are required to submit a copy of the tabian Baan of the house we rent, along with a copy of the owner's ID.

Thanks. Yes, I've been doing the same.

[sanooki]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

How long have you been in Korat? There is no rule, such as you cited, of your wife needing to be working or registered in Korat province. However, I think the officials were unconvinced by the explanation by you and your wife as to why you want to apply in Korat. They may suspect that you had a problem with the immigration office in your wife's "home" province, and are trying to circumvent whatever those imagined problems might be.

I was considering something along the lines of the same. But, I wonder why they would use a different reason. Also, they will be able to investigate that easily with a phone call or two, I believe. I have trouble understanding why people need to justify liking living a regular life. There are no malls in my wife's moobaan, for instance. And, from here we can more easily travel to BKK, etc.

[BE88]

""My wife explained that we came here on vacation and wanted to tour places here.""

 

If your wife says that you are on vacation, it is logical that you do not receive your visa extension, or I have not understood what you are writing.

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, sanooki said:

I've been living in Thailand over 13 years, granted 5 marriage extensions and 7 work extensions. I have not been out of the country for 8 years. Two years ago, I converted my work extension to a marriage extension when I was retired from my uni job. My current wife and I have been together over 5 years, since we were married in her home. We married legally over 4 years ago. Neither she nor my ex wife worked at the time of any of my marriage extensions, nor were the extensions ever granted in my wives' home provinces.

 

We moved to Korat city 11 months ago, and inquired at my last 90 day report about requirements for marriage extension here. I have always done everything by the book with no real problems, other than the usual anomalies. Yesterday, we arrived at Korat immigration almost 2 weeks ahead of my extension expiration date. We went through pre-document review successfully. 

 

Once called to an officer's desk, I heard my wife being spoken to in an incredulous voice. My Thai is intermediate, but I surmised she was being asked why we were living in Korat. My wife explained that we came here on vacation and wanted to tour places here. I tried to help by reminding her that she also wanted to be closer to her family in Ubon, and that her father has family here in Korat, all true. Well, the officer on the desk called in her apparent supervisor, who grilled my wife on the same questions. I chimed in that I could live anywhere now, since I'm not working. My wife explained that she is a housewife, but is also exploring work ideas, and that we are also considering moving even closer to her family in Ubon.

 

Sorry for the lengthy explanations, but usually you folks want the context, so here it is. Bottom line is that the two lady officers said they were concerned that our application would be rejected in Khonkaen due to the fact that my wife does not have a job in Korat, nor does she have her Tabien Baan here. In all my time in Thailand, I have never seen this as a requirement for a marriage visa extension.

 

I can't find any mention of this requirement anywhere. Is it new? Is this a case of an over-zealous officer making a creative interpretation of some rule? If anyone can shed light, especially with references, I would be very appreciative. If I'm rejected, I would just get a retirement visa, but I had wanted to keep the option of working again open. Initially, I was waiting for the pandemic madness to subside before doing that.

 

Thanks much for your attention and patience.

Where are you domicile why don't you apply there?

[sanooki]

7 minutes ago, BE88 said:

""My wife explained that we came here on vacation and wanted to tour places here.""

 

If your wife says that you are on vacation, it is logical that you do not receive your visa extension, or I have not understood what you are writing.

I too was a bit ruffled with my wife's answer. "Tio" has different meanings. To her, it means visiting wats and shopping. What do people do when they're retired. Why is it a crime? We actually have a long-term lease and we're considering staying many years, since she has family an hour away in the province. But, I also fear there is some misunderstanding. I didn't want to come into the conversation heavy-handed to try to clear it up, and nobody seemed interested in talking to me, even though I was speaking to them in Thai.

[sanooki]

17 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Where are you domicile why don't you apply there?

I don't consider myself domiciled anywhere yet. I had been a lecturer at a Rajabhat in Chachoengsao for 7 years before being retired. These two years since, we are exploring where to settle. We occasionally stay for weeks at her family farm in Ubon. I'm just not ready to commit to being there full-time. Too remote for me.

 

I must say I do notice (since the pandemic?) a new implied importance on the part of IOs to permanent locations. I don't recall that being so emphasized before. I still don't see the crime in wanting to stay somewhere for a year while contributing to the local economy just because I happen to like it there and want to know if it's a good long-term home. Are we required to have permanent homes? I never heard that and surely wouldn't have tried to move if that were the case.

Edited July 19, 2023 by sanooki
Add another thought.

[BE88]

12 minutes ago, sanooki said:

I too was a bit ruffled with my wife's answer. "Tio" has different meanings. To her, it means visiting wats and shopping. What do people do when they're retired. Why is it a crime? We actually have a long-term lease and we're considering staying many years, since she has family an hour away in the province. But, I also fear there is some misunderstanding. I didn't want to come into the conversation heavy-handed to try to clear it up, and nobody seemed interested in talking to me, even though I was speaking to them in Thai.

Typical of the Thai mentality is that of excluding a farang from the conversation if he has his wife nearby.

 

I also think that there was a big confusion in which no one understood the question so if I were in your place I will come back alone to clarify the situation but you will use English with simple terms.

 

[VocalNeal]

7 minutes ago, sanooki said:

I still don't see the crime in wanting to stay somewhere for a year while contributing to the local economy just because I happen to like it there and want to know if it's a good long-term home.

Fair enough so you need to rent somewhere for a year. I don't know if this gives your wife grounds to get a yellow book but the concept that you can just swan around is obviously a far as Koart immigration is concerned is a fallacy.

 

[Red Phoenix]

What is tell-tale is that you wrote: Bottom line is that the two lady officers said they were concerned that our application would be rejected in Khonkaen due to the fact that my wife does not have a job in Korat, nor does she have her Tabien Baan here. 

@BritTim is fully correct in that there is no such rule of your wife needing to be working or registered in Korat province.  So there should be no reason to deny your application for a 1-year extension for reason of marriage, since you meet all the requirements and have done this previous years without any issues.

But obviously if the officer handling your application is not willing to process it, you have a problem.  

I can only advise you to go back to that Imm Office and ask to talk to the manager in charge to plead your case for your application, bringing with you your complete history of previous successful applications.  

In case they are adamant, you have 3 options:

#1 - Applying at Korat Imm Office for reason of retirement.  Be aware that this requires you having to show proof of +800K/+400K in the previous 12 months preceding your application, so that might not be an option.  And of course a Permission to stay based on retirement prohibits you doing any work. 

#2 - Moving to a different province and doing the application there.  Your Permission to stay expires in 2 weeks, but if you have insufficient time and if you have not used it yet you could , first apply - either in Korat or in the new province - for a 60-day extension of stay for reason of marriage. Once you have your 1-year permission to stay, applied for in another province, you could then even return to Korat (but the same problem might reoccur again next year). 

#3 - Apply for the 1-year Multiple-Entry Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage at the Savannakhet consulate in Laos (just over the border from Mukdahan).  Applying there has the additional advantage that you get the Visa next day (so no under consideration period), and that it does not have any financial requirements as the only requirement is that you need to provide proof of being married to your Thai wife.  Also you would not have to do any 90-day reports.

The drawback is of course that that 1-year Visa only provides you with a 90-day permission of stay on entry (which can be extended for 60 days at your local Imm Office for reason of visiting your wife), but then you would have to do a border-run which will provide you once again with a 90-day permission of stay (which once again can be extended for 60 days).  So that Visa can effectively provide you with 17 months of stay, without any hassle from your local Imm Office.

[sanooki]

3 minutes ago, BE88 said:

Typical of the Thai mentality is that of excluding a farang from the conversation if he has his wife nearby.

 

I also think that there was a big confusion in which no one understood the question so if I were in your place I will come back alone to clarify the situation but you will use English with simple terms.

 

I was also considering some close version of that, thanks. As it stands, we have just received a call already, that we will get a visit tomorrow morning from the mobile police crew. Seems I might get my chance then, and likely late to go back to the office.

 

I've never heard of anyone, at least that I can remember, successfully appealing the conclusions, intermediate or final, of IOs, but that might be something I might try to figure out how to do. My sense is all good should come out in the wash, if they examine my record. But, I like to be prepared for the worst.

[sanooki]

6 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Fair enough so you need to rent somewhere for a year. I don't know if this gives your wife grounds to get a yellow book but the concept that you can just swan around is obviously a far as Koart immigration is concerned is a fallacy.

 

I surely noted that yesterday with shock. I also wish they wouldn't have such a love for changing rules and expecting us to read their minds about them. I follow rules as good as anyone --if I know what they are. :)

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, sanooki said:

Thanks for your reply. Are you hinting at some particular problem with Korat? My wife and I might actually fancy a trip to Savannahket. I have been skittish about leaving the country these past few years, and I don't see why I should have to. But, maybe it's a good option.

 

The thing is, it seems to be setting up for the need to do that every year after. Oh, the other thing I didn't mention is that, as they were processing my paperwork, they said yesterday that if I was turned down, I would not be allowed another application of the same. I wonder if that would apply to an app made outside Thailand for a new marriage visa?

Nobody is ever turned down,

they either accept your application, and a month or 2 later it's confirmed.

or they refuse your application, in which case your paperwork is returned with no record kept.

 

I jumped between 1 year non-os and marriage extensions depending on how long the queues were at CM immigration for the past 14 years.

Edited July 19, 2023 by BritManToo

[sanooki]

10 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

What is tell-tale is that you wrote: Bottom line is that the two lady officers said they were concerned that our application would be rejected in Khonkaen due to the fact that my wife does not have a job in Korat, nor does she have her Tabien Baan here. 

@BritTim is fully correct in that there is no such rule of your wife needing to be working or registered in Korat province.  So there should be no reason to deny your application for a 1-year extension for reason of marriage, since you meet all the requirements and have done this previous years without any issues.

But obviously if the officer handling your application is not willing to process it, you have a problem.  

I can only advise you to go back to that Imm Office and ask to talk to the manager in charge to plead your case for your application, bringing with you your complete history of previous successful applications.  

In case they are adamant, you have 3 options:

#1 - Applying at Korat Imm Office for reason of retirement.  Be aware that this requires you having to show proof of +800K/+400K in the previous 12 months preceding your application, so that might not be an option.  And of course a Permission to stay based on retirement prohibits you doing any work. 

#2 - Moving to a different province and doing the application there.  Your Permission to stay expires in 2 weeks, but if you have insufficient time and if you have not used it yet you could , first apply - either in Korat or in the new province - for a 60-day extension of stay for reason of marriage. Once you have your 1-year permission to stay, applied for in another province, you could then even return to Korat (but the same problem might reoccur again next year). 

#3 - Apply for the 1-year Multiple-Entry Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage at the Savannakhet consulate in Laos (just over the border from Mukdahan).  Applying there has the additional advantage that you get the Visa next day (so no under consideration period), and that it does not have any financial requirements as the only requirement is that you need to provide proof of being married to your Thai wife.  Also you would not have to do any 90-day reports.

The drawback is of course that that 1-year Visa only provides you with a 90-day permission of stay on entry (which can be extended for 60 days at your local Imm Office for reason of visiting your wife), but then you would have to do a border-run which will provide you once again with a 90-day permission of stay (which once again can be extended for 60 days).  So that Visa can effectively provide you with 17 months of stay, without any hassle from your local Imm Office.

Thanks much for the detailed reply. That's a good collection of the considerations. 

 

I probably wasn't clear in my OP that they did accept the application already, at the end of all the discussion. If declined, they say I couldn't apply for a marriage extension again. I don't know if that also bars applying for a new visa in Savannahket or not, or, if I did that, would I need to do the same indefinitely. Once or twice might be fun, but I plan to be here a long time.

 

So, the best alternative seems to be the Retirement extension. I have enough funds, but was hoping to keep the work option open. I will accept that being closed off if I need to.

 

I still have hope that those reviewing my app will look at the big picture and ask if there is anything that needs clarification. I have an ongoing fear of arbitrary decisions based on misunderstandings. I wonder why.

[sanooki]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nobody is ever turned own,

they either accept your application, and a month or 2 later it's confirmed.

or they refuse your application, in which case your paperwork is returned with no record kept.

 

I jumped between 1 year non-os and marriage extensions depending on how long the queues were at CM immigration for the past 14 years.

Wow, if true, and I have no reason to doubt you, that's great news. So, when the IO lady expressed "worry" and then accepted, she had made the decision. We had speculated that she was just flexing on us for whatever reason. But, I posted here to see if this was a thing or not. I hope not, but I know we can't assume anything here 100%.

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, sanooki said:

I probably wasn't clear in my OP that they did accept the application already, at the end of all the discussion. If declined, they say I couldn't apply for a marriage extension again. I don't know if that also bars applying for a new visa in Savannahket or not, or, if I did that, would I need to do the same indefinitely. Once or twice might be fun, but I plan to be here a long time.

Being rejected by Div Headquarters for the Marriage extension application will not affect applying for the 1-year ME Non Imm O (marriage) Visa in Savannakhet.  Applying for the latter only requires proof of being married and does not require any of the bogus made-up reasons on which Div HQ might now block your application.

Also having applied for the ME Non Imm O (marriage) Visa does not prohibit you from applying later again at your local Imm Office for a new Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.

 

4 minutes ago, sanooki said:

So, the best alternative seems to be the Retirement extension. I have enough funds, but was hoping to keep the work option open. I will accept that being closed off if I need to.

I would only consider the Retirement extension when there are no other options, because of the work option being cut off and the requirement to semi-permanent keep +800K/+400K funds on your personal thai bank-account. 

 

>> Good to hear that Korat did send your application for approval to Div HQ.  And I would be highly surprised if Div HQ would not approve your application as the reasons for concern that the Korat Imm Office ladies gave for possible refusal are non-existing requirements.

[sanooki]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Being rejected by Div Headquarters for the Marriage extension application will not affect applying for the 1-year ME Non Imm O (marriage) Visa in Savannakhet.  Applying for the latter only requires proof of being married and does not require any of the bogus made-up reasons on which Div HQ might now block your application.

Also having applied for the ME Non Imm O (marriage) Visa does not prohibit you from applying later again at your local Imm Office for a new Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.

 

I would only consider the Retirement extension when there are no other options, because of the work option being cut off and the requirement to semi-permanent keep +800K/+400K funds on your personal thai bank-account. 

 

>> Good to hear that Korat did send your application for approval to Div HQ.  And I would be highly surprised if Div HQ would not approve your application as the reasons for concern that the Korat Imm Office ladies gave for possible refusal are non-existing requirements.

Thanks a bunch for the encouragement. Also, the details on Savannahket are quite helpful, and I think I like that option more now that I've read your details. I agree with you on the retirement extension. It does seem a bit less of a hassle to get one, but it is significantly more limiting once had.

[Bangkok Barry]

You do not need to be retired to have a retirement visa. Thai logic. That might be your best path. They like that - less paperwork for them. They try to make me go that way but I have no burning desire to pointlessly tie up 800,000 for months of the year to satisfy them.

[sanooki]

4 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

You do not need to be retired to have a retirement visa. Thai logic. That might be your best path. They like that - less paperwork for them. They try to make me go that way but I have no burning desire to pointlessly tie up 800,000 for months of the year to satisfy them.

I have felt that is the case, for sure. But, it's my life, not theirs, ha. Part of the proceedings yesterday was that I habitually show a bank balance lower than the retirement requirements to try to avoid the discussion.

 

Usually works, but yesterday I was forced to reveal that I had another bank account because I wanted them to understand that I wasn't trying to scam them to have a marriage visa with low funds, only that I wanted to keep my work options open. Also, that they weren't getting rid of me if they turned my marriage extension down.

[Bangkok Barry]

19 minutes ago, sanooki said:

I have felt that is the case, for sure. But, it's my life, not theirs, ha. Part of the proceedings yesterday was that I habitually show a bank balance lower than the retirement requirements to try to avoid the discussion.

 

Usually works, but yesterday I was forced to reveal that I had another bank account because I wanted them to understand that I wasn't trying to scam them to have a marriage visa with low funds, only that I wanted to keep my work options open. Also, that they weren't getting rid of me if they turned my marriage extension down.

I like your style 

[sherwood]

I deal with Korat Imm also and this year they were a little harder to work with, marriage ext but in the end no real problems.

You may need to supply two witnesses when the cops turn up, just a warning.

Otherwise best of luck fella.

[connda]

3 hours ago, sanooki said:

We moved to Korat city 11 months ago, and inquired at my last 90 day report about requirements for marriage extension here. I have always done everything by the book with no real problems, other than the usual anomalies. Yesterday, we arrived at Korat immigration almost 2 weeks ahead of my extension expiration date. We went through pre-document review successfully. 

Interesting.  I worked in Korat and changed to an extension based on marriage when I quit work  My wife's Tabien Baan was in Lamphun and she didn't work.  Maybe things have changed.  We've also renewed in Chiang Mai where we lived after I quit work permanently prior to moving to Lamphun Province <cue the theme to Green Acres>

[sanooki]

9 minutes ago, sherwood said:

I deal with Korat Imm also and this year they were a little harder to work with, marriage ext but in the end no real problems.

You may need to supply two witnesses when the cops turn up, just a warning.

Otherwise best of luck fella.

Hey, thanks. Fingers crossed, tomorrow my landlord will show as promised with her daughter. They were kind enough to tell me that bit about two witnesses.

 

I don't have much reference with Korat, but had not had any problems with notifications or info gathering prior to yesterday. But, as I was sitting waiting, I saw several people getting shaken down, including an Asian monk in full robes from another country! My first thought was I will be fine because they've already checked over all my paperwork at the desk outside. Then, I realized these others had gone through the same. :)

[sherwood]

2 minutes ago, sanooki said:

Hey, thanks. Fingers crossed, tomorrow my landlord will show as promised with her daughter. They were kind enough to tell me that bit about two witnesses.

 

I don't have much reference with Korat, but had not had any problems with notifications or info gathering prior to yesterday. But, as I was sitting waiting, I saw several people getting shaken down, including an Asian monk in full robes from another country! My first thought was I will be fine because they've already checked over all my paperwork at the desk outside. Then, I realized these others had gone through the same. ????

The witnesses should not be related and have separate house books. You should be OK.

Cheers