Why IS It That Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists? Hear it HERE…Straight from the Horse’s Mouth!

[GammaGlobulin]

15 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I don't suppose you considered the survey dates, did you?

 

1914 - the start of WW1

1933 - Great depression, the rise of Hitler, Persecution of the Jews started in 1933.

 

Usually religion takes a back seat when the world political scene is more settled. That's when arrogant scientists start kicking religion to the curb. In fact, if you surveyed the general population, you'll likely get very similar numbers. Perhaps you could find a survey of the general population to compare results.

This topic is really NOT about the general population, as should have been CRYSTAL clear from the Topic Heading:

 

"Why IS It That Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists?"

 

[JensenZ]

40 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This OLD DEBATE about there being any SIGNIFICANT difference between an agnostic and an atheist is already just pointless.

 

As everybody knows, there is still great stigma attached the word "atheist", and therefore it is just a matter of convenience for some to admit to being an agnostic when, actually, they DO NOT BELIEVE in a god, or gods...

 

But of course, we know their true position.

You're doing it again. "as everybody knows", to add to your previous "it's a well-known fact" and "invariably"...and another new one "but of course, we know their true position".

 

Talk about arrogance. Speak for yourself and not for me and everyone else, please. Just because you think it does not make it a universal truth. Also, neither do your limited surveys that you presented here. Surveys or polls can be biased to prove a desired point of view.

 

No, everybody doesn't know. There is a huge difference between an atheist and an agnostic. An atheist has made up their mind - there is no God - they are certain. An agnostic doesn't know if there is one or not and it cannot be proven either way. They are in doubt. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by JensenZ

[GammaGlobulin]

21 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Usually religion takes a back seat when the world political scene is more settled.

Please feel free to present your EVIDENCE for your statement in your next comment.

Thank you!

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[sipi]

Thanks gummy.

After 45 years I've finally found a cure for my insomnia.

Watching Feynman videos.

[gamb00ler]

31 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Obviously, the trends are going in just one direction, as you can plainly see. These days, among scientists, it's about 99% agnostic/atheist, if I am not mistaken. 

 

Many human associated beliefs have beautiful trend lines..... until they don't.

 

Booms and busts, mob/herd mentalities.... lots of counter examples.

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This topic is really NOT about the general population, as should have been CRYSTAL clear from the Topic Heading:

 

"Why IS It That Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists?"

 

You should have a baseline comparison of the not super-smart general population to show that the increase in atheists is related to intelligence or not. You're suggesting that atheist = super-smart.

 

The survey will probably mimmick the general population, making it a worthless comparison. You might want to conduct an IQ test of all the people in the survey to determine their smartness.

[JensenZ]

7 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Please feel free to present your EVIDENCE for your statement in your next comment.

Thank you!

Let's try it your way: Everybody knows that in difficult times, more people turn to religion. That's an invariable fact. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

[GammaGlobulin]

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Everybody knows that in difficult times, more people turn to religion.

By "people", do you mean "super-smart" people and/or scientists?

Because we are not talking about religion, belief in god, and the opium of the masses.

 

 

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

It is a well known fact that ALL scientists are atheists; they just dislike publicly admitting the fact.

If it is true that "Super-Smart People, Almost INVARIABLY, Turn Out to Be Atheists? " you failed to mention what religion you are devoted to. Below is a list that the name of thousands of well respected scientist who were religious.some of them such as Paul Dirac ,Niels Bohr  Nobel prize winners. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technolog

5 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

So, what are your thoughts about Feynman’s point of view?

After reviewing all available evidence I have concluded that he certainly had one. 

[GammaGlobulin]

11 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

You're suggesting that atheist = super-smart.

I am suggesting NOTHING, REPEAT NOTHING, of the kind.

There are PLENTY of dumb atheists, one can reasonably assume.

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

17 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Many human associated beliefs have beautiful trend lines..... until they don't.

 

Booms and busts, mob/herd mentalities.... lots of counter examples.

This is sometimes true, and religiosity in China during the past years, since 1949, is just one example of what you suggest.

 

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

And, now that you know who he is, you will find this UTUBE

I have now concluded my extensive search on Utube and I sad to report that I have found nothing on this Fine man.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

24 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

You're doing it again. "as everybody knows", to add to your previous "it's a well-known fact" and "invariably"...and another new one "but of course, we know their true position".

 

Talk about arrogance. Speak for yourself and not for me and everyone else, please. Just because you think it does not make it a universal truth. Also, neither do your limited surveys that you presented here. Surveys or polls can be biased to prove a desired point of view.

 

No, everybody doesn't know. There is a huge difference between an atheist and an agnostic. An atheist has made up their mind - there is no God - they are certain. An agnostic doesn't know if there is one or not and it cannot be proven either way. They are in doubt. 

I stated: 'As everybody knows, there is still great stigma attached the word "atheist"'

 

Do you disagree with my statement?

I do not see how you can.

There is stigma attached to self-identifying as an atheist.

Everybody knows this.

 

[JensenZ]

58 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Just curious - can you name some famous scientists who were or are Muslims? It does seem rather strange God should be so selective of the Christian faith.

I can't name any, but here is a long list that was easily found:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_Arab_scientists_and_engineers

 

The list of scientists in medieval Islamic world (Islamic Golden Age - 8th to 14th centuries) is even longer.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_in_medieval_Islamic_world

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I am suggesting NOTHING, REPEAT NOTHING, of the kind.

There are PLENTY of dumb atheists, one can reasonably assume.

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I am suggesting NOTHING, REPEAT NOTHING, of the kind.

There are PLENTY of dumb atheists, one can reasonably assume.

 

 

 

 

As displayed in this Thread

[Lacessit]

28 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This OLD DEBATE about there being any SIGNIFICANT difference between an agnostic and an atheist is already just pointless.

 

As everybody knows, there is still great stigma attached the word "atheist", and therefore it is just a matter of convenience for some to admit to being an agnostic when, actually, they DO NOT BELIEVE in a god, or gods...

 

But of course, we know their true position.

 

 

No, you don't. In point of fact, atheists are fond of labeling agnostics as namby-pamby, and lacking strength of conviction. Effectively making atheism a religion of its own. All religions are a matter of belief, are they not?

 

I assume you have heard of Arthur C Clarke, a giant of science and science fiction. I recommend you read one of his many books, "Childhood's End", if you have not already. Although Clarke identified as an atheist, deism was a topic frequently visited in his novels.

[GammaGlobulin]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Below is a list that the name of thousands of well respected scientist who were religious.some of them such as Paul Dirac ,Niels Bohr  Nobel prize winners. 

Your statement is COMPLETELY FALSE!!!!!!

Bohr was a complete atheist!

 

 "Bohr enjoyed Kierkegaard's language and literary style, but mentioned that he had some disagreement with Kierkegaard's philosophy.[87] Some of Bohr's biographers suggested that this disagreement stemmed from Kierkegaard's advocacy of Christianity, while Bohr was an atheist." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr#:~:text=Bohr enjoyed Kierkegaard's language and,while Bohr was an atheist.)

 

 

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

It is my opinion that any scientist who truly believes there is a god is ipso facto NOT a scientist, but something else.

And that, furthermore, that "something else" is a stain upon the very name of Science!

 

 

In is my opinion opinions are like a--holes... everyone has one and they all stink especially in broad generalizations and are a stain on the very name of human existence.

[thaibeachlovers]

38 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Please clarify what you mean by "physical", because otherwise your question is impossible to address.

 

 

Atoms, of which everything is made.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I can't name any, but here is a long list that was easily found:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_Arab_scientists_and_engineers

 

The list of scientists in medieval Islamic world (Islamic Golden Age - 8th to 14th centuries) is even longer.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_in_medieval_Islamic_world

If you add up the number of Nobel prize winners in what I call the hard sciences - physics, chemistry, biology etc., over 200 are of the Jewish faith. In contrast, there are only two Muslims. Given the disparity in numbers - 44 million Jews world-wide, vs 1.4 billion Muslims, I wonder if Muslims lost their way in religious dogma.

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I stated: 'As everybody knows, there is still great stigma attached the word "atheist"'

 

Do you disagree with my statement?

I do not see how you can.

There is stigma attached to self-identifying as an atheist.

Everybody knows this.

 

Maybe in older times, but these days probably most don't use the word and just say "I don't believe in God"...but your position was that agnostic and atheist are interchangeable.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but I think I've commented enough in your thread, at least for the day, and will take my leave - have a good day!

[sirineou]

Put your hands over your head and step away from that dictionary!

I repeat put your hands over...........................................

You don't have to do this. Sir. 

With today's medical advances Cognitive Dissonance is a very treatable condition.  

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

As displayed in this Thread

IMO they are far outnumbered by dumb Christians and Muslims, Judaism appears to be an exception.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Just curious - can you name some famous scientists who were or are Muslims? It does seem rather strange God should be so selective of the Christian faith.

While I know no names, far as I know Muslims kept learning alive during Europe's Dark Ages, and some were scientists.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

IMO they are far outnumbered by dumb Christians and Muslims, Judaism appears to be an exception.

What the lack in quantity , they more than make up in quality.

Present company excluded

[GammaGlobulin]

As for Einstein: When he uttered, "God does not play dice with the universe.", he was NOT speaking of GOD in the "literal sense", and ALL scientists realize this. 

 

"One of Albert Einstein's most famous quotes is, "God does not play dice with the universe."

But there are two huge errors in the way many people have interpreted this quote over the years. People have wrongly assumed Einstein was religious, believed in destiny, or that he completely rejected a core theory in physics.

First, Einstein wasn't referring to a personal god in the quote. He was using "God" as a metaphor." (https://www.businessinsider.com/god-does-not-play-dice-quote-meaning-2015-11)

 

It's just INCREDIBLE how NAIVE some people (so many  people) can be!!!!

 

 

[pomchop]

Few thoughts that I think should come into every discussion on religion:

 

1. Define "God"....you want to claim to believe or not believe what?  If by God you mean that there is some power that is beyond human comprehension then ok. If you want to tell me that you "know" your beliefs are absolutely correct I will call BS.

 

If by God you mean some organized religions fairy tale version that parents worldwide brainwash their young children in believing no thanks.

 

2.  Nearly all religions seem to think that THEIR religious beliefs are the true and correct ones....when actually the vast majority of religious people worldwide simply adopt whatever religion is the dominant strain in wherever they happened to be born/grow up. 

 

If you were born in Irag you are muslim, Rome, catholic, Alabama southern Baptist, Thailand Buddhist, India , Hindu and so on.  I find it laughable that so many people want to defend their religion when the fact is if they had been born somewhere else they would likely believe a totally different one.

 

3.  Why are so many religious people such blatant hypocrites?  I dare say a good chunk of so called Christians would not let their man Jesus into their house if he showed up at their door....or they might shoot or deport him because he looks like a dirty hippie arab.

 

4. Believe what you want but when you start to try to indoctrinate  others into your beliefs or eliminate those who don't share your belief, or use your religion as an excuse to lie cheat and steal or further political goals etc  that is where you cross the line.

[GammaGlobulin]

Just now, pomchop said:

Few thoughts that I think should come into every discussion on religion:

 

1. Define "God"....you want to claim to believe or not believe what?  If by God you mean that there is some power that is beyond human comprehension then ok. If you want to tell me that you "know" your beliefs are absolutely correct I will call BS.

 

If by God you mean some organized religions fairy tale version that parents worldwide brainwash their young children in believing no thanks.

 

2.  Nearly all religions seem to think that THEIR religious beliefs are the true and correct ones....when actually the vast majority of religious people worldwide simply adopt whatever religion is the dominant strain in wherever they happened to be born/grow up. 

 

If you were born in Irag you are muslim, Rome, catholic, Alabama southern Baptist, Thailand Buddhist, India , Hindu and so on.  I find it laughable that so many people want to defend their religion when the fact is if they had been born somewhere else they would likely believe a totally different one.

 

3.  Why are so many religious people such blatant hypocrites?  I dare say a good chunk of so called Christians would not let their man Jesus into their house if he showed up at their door....or they might shoot or deport him because he looks like a dirty hippie arab.

 

4. Believe what you want but when you start to try to indoctrinate  others into your beliefs or eliminate those who don't share your belief, or use your religion as an excuse to lie cheat and steal or further political goals etc  that is where you cross the line.

This topic is NOT about religion.

This topic is about SCIENCE, and the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, and also about super-smart people who demand evidence before forming opinions, and about Feynman.  How did you like the Feynman video, by the way?

 

 

[sipi]

So exactly where on the video does Frenman say smart people are atheist? At which minute mark?

I painfully watched the bit about tooth brushes, atoms, seagulls squabbling over a chip and some other irrelevant stuff, but completely missed the exact verse Gummy is trying to duplicate.

Edited July 27, 2023 by sipi

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Just curious - can you name some famous scientists who were or are Muslims? It does seem rather strange God should be so selective of the Christian faith.