New Thailand Elite Visa packages from September 15th ?

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

This is commonly misunderstood. A failure to keep the stated bank deposits when on a retirement extension does not invalidate your permission to stay and put you on overstay. Keeping the money in the bank is only required in order to be eligible for the next one-year extension. It is clear that this is the situation. Those who have had their bank deposits drop below the required level have never been found to be on overstay. They have simply been refused a further extension.

Thanks, I've read misinformation on this in the past regarding use of the 800k for hospital bills invalidating the current extension, but looks like this is not the case.

 

One other situation where proof of financials is needed is mid-year transfer of stamps to new passport, not sure if this is a new requirement.

 

Also, does the Non O have to be cancelled at immigration - I've read mention about people making appointment for cancelling the O and getting the new PE stamp affixed on the same day?

 

[Tuvoc]

On 9/2/2023 at 3:23 PM, lamyai3 said:

Also, does the Non O have to be cancelled at immigration - I've read mention about people making appointment for cancelling the O and getting the new PE stamp affixed on the same day?

My existing non-O is in one passport with reentry permit, and I've applied for the Elite on a different passport (dual National). Immigration should be wanting to cancel the existing Non-O because my understanding is that you can't have two active permissions to stay. I'll have to see how they want to play that, I'm currently outside Thailand. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Tuvoc

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

My existing non-O is in one passport with reentry permit, and I've applied for the Elite on a different passport (dual National). Immigration should be wanting to cancel the existing Non-O because my understanding is that you can't have two active permissions to stay. I'll have to see how they want to play that, I'm currently outside Thailand. 

If you are outside Thailand, and planning to receive the Elite visa at the airport, the old extension and re-entry permit in the old passport are not an issue. Immigration will simply fail to reinstate the permission to stay permitted by the re-entry permit. The same would be true if you had an old multiple entry visa: it is simply not used.

 

It is, of course, different if you are in Thailand on an existing Non Immigrant permission to stay. Then, yes, the existing permission to stay must be cancelled somehow.

[lamyai3]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

It is, of course, different if you are in Thailand on an existing Non Immigrant permission to stay. Then, yes, the existing permission to stay must be cancelled somehow.

From my recent experience transferring Non O stamps to a new passport mid year, they were highly pedantic about seeing the 800k in the bank book on the day of getting this done, which goes against the idea that it's only something required to qualify for the next extension.

 

Reading threads regarding transferring out monies after switch to an LTR visa (as well as agent advice on the subject) the general view is that the 800k cannot be moved until after the visa is cancelled. Is immigration going to make a problem if showing up to cancel the Non O when the monies were already transferred out some days earlier?

 

https://www.thailandelite-direct.com/en/blog/post/cancellation-of-non-immigrant-o-visa

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1293700-ltr-and-the-800000-baht-bank-account/

Edited September 4, 2023 by lamyai3

[BritTim]

33 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Reading threads regarding transferring out monies after switch to an LTR visa (as well as agent advice on the subject) the general view is that the 800k cannot be moved until after the visa is cancelled. Is immigration going to make a problem if showing up to cancel the Non O when the monies were already transferred out some days earlier?

First of all, my assumption is that by "cancel the Non O", you mean cancelling an extended permission to stay based on retirement. If this is not what you mean, please correct me.

 

Anyway, I am unsure what problem you anticipate from withdrawing your money from the bank. Are you aware of anyone being panelised for this (other than being unable to get further extensions of their permission to stay)? If so, I would be interested in the details.

[lamyai3]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

First of all, my assumption is that by "cancel the Non O", you mean cancelling an extended permission to stay based on retirement. If this is not what you mean, please correct me.

 

Anyway, I am unsure what problem you anticipate from withdrawing your money from the bank. Are you aware of anyone being panelised for this (other than being unable to get further extensions of their permission to stay)? If so, I would be interested in the details.

Yes, I'm talking about cancelling the extension based on a Non O. I've never heard of anyone penalised, but I was also surprised that the Non O extension needed to be formally cancelled at all. If approval is required to cancel it, then don't immigration need to check the conditions of stay have been complied with (that the monies have been deposited throughout)? There's a thread on a private Elite Facebook group that's discussing this right now which states that showing up to cancel the Non O extension requires bringing the up to date bank information, and the same is true of the two links I've attached. For certain there won't be problems with the bank regarding moving the money out, but will there be a problem showing up later with an unfunded period of time on the extension at immigration?

[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

will there be a problem showing up later with an unfunded period of time on the extension at immigration?

I do not believe there will be. There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about the bank deposits when on an extension of your permission to stay based on retirement. I originally misinterpreted the requirements myself. Arguably (but probably not) you are required to keep money in the bank for three months after the visa is granted to prove it was your money, and not just borrowed. That is unclear. For sure, the deposits through the rest of the year are purely to qualify for the next extension.

 

Just to stress again: the term "Non O extension" is completely meaningless. There are over 20 reasons for which you might have been granted a temporary extension of your permission to stay after originally entering Thailand with a Non O visa. Retirement is only one of these.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

There's a thread on a private Elite Facebook group that's discussing this right now which states that showing up to cancel the Non O extension requires bringing the up to date bank information, and the same is true of the two links I've attached.

Back in 2022, the IOs at BKK CW informed me that they had a then new policy being that anytime anyone came to the L section seeking any action of any kind for someone on a retirement extension based on bank deposits...  (not just applying for a new extension) ... they were going to require proof that the 800K deposit requirements had been complied with, including a bankbook update and photocopies on the day of that visit.

 

So the notion they conveyed was, they'd also enforce checking on bank deposit compliance if you came to the L section for things like having stamps transferred to a new passport (which was what I was there for, and they imposed the bank deposit checking requirement on me when I was mid-term on an existing extension) or whatever else might be done in the L section, as a person on a retirement extension based on bank deposit.

 

That was then... I have no idea if that supposed policy is still in effect there now... but your comments above kind of suggest it is.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That was then... I have no idea if that supposed policy is still in effect there now... but your comments above kind of suggest it is.

Yes, I was told about it at last extension and when I went in to do the transfers the bank book was one of the first things I was asked for. No bank letter needed, but a same day deposit and the book updated. 

 

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Back in 2022, the IOs at BKK CW informed me that they had a then new policy being that anytime anyone came to the L section seeking any action of any kind for someone on a retirement extension based on bank deposits...  (not just applying for a new extension) ... they were going to require proof that the 800K deposit requirements had been complied with, including a bankbook update and photocopies on the day of that visit.

This is my concern, as there'd be a period of time without the deposit between the Elite payment and affixing the sticker and cancelling the extension. Although I agree with @BritTim that the only thing that should be a problem is the next extension becomes invalidated, I fear they're becoming so pedantic about this that they might view the unfunded period as an overstay. 

[El Matador]

I am making the maths for alternatives in SEA in other countries if you are under 50.

The Philippines offer an investor visa at around 2 600 000 bahts in stocks ($75000) for an indefinite period of time.

No reentry/exit permit, no 90 days report and they have territorial taxes. Pretty attractive option if you like the country and have an offshore business.

[brian2322]

topic derailed

[Hal65]

So back on the Thai Elite, has there ever been a period where they appeared to roll out new pricing, determine it was too high, and actually lower it?

 

My guess is no but I'm happy to hear otherwise.

[Tuvoc]

After the high profile rollout,  I'd say no. My guess is that they have far more members now than they ever thought they would, and want to limit further expansion because they won't be able to cope with the numbers. That and the fact that the 20 yr one at 1m was too cheap compared to the 800k you have to put aside for retirement extensions.  I don't think that the original goal was to attract "ordinary" retirees in such big numbers.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Hal65 said:

So back on the Thai Elite, has there ever been a period where they appeared to roll out new pricing, determine it was too high, and actually lower it?

 

My guess is no but I'm happy to hear otherwise.

Well kind of but it was a while back.

 

When it first came about the price was 1 million Baht for a lifetime membership

 

Then it went to 2 million Baht for 20 years for a while

 

I think this is when it really stagnated

 

Nothing changed with the 2 million baht offering - it stayed on offer until now.

 

Then they introduced the 5 year Easy Access membership for just 500k Baht - same price per year but you could just buy it every 5 years. I think the 'benefits' were slightly reduced from the 2 million baht membership and there was/is no annual fee with the 5 year membership.

 

At this point there were only 2 membership types available if I remember correctly, the 500k 5 year Easy Access membership and the 'full' 20 year membership.

 

Then they really shook things up by introducing the 20 year 'Superiority Extension' for 1 million Baht along with a few other different offerings (family memberships, etc) which were introduced over the years.

 

At some point two or three years back they increased the 5 year Easy Access membership price from 500k to 600k Baht.

 

Then they really shook things up again by telling us that you can 'upgrade' from the 5 year Easy Access membership to the 20 year 'Superiority Extension' for another 500k or 400k if you're a more recent member.

 

Now they seem to have looped back to step 2 with the highest price offering.

 

I doubt it will be too long before they continue on this loop and begin offering discounted memberships again once they realise they've poisoned the well.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by ukrules

[El Matador]

The superiority extension visa was a kind of devaluation by offering a more simple visa.

Now they want again to force you to buy perks you may not need besides the massive inflation.

 

It is also interesting to note the LTR visas (which give something similar to Thai Elite visas) went form 100K bahts to 50K bahts to boost them (while keeping totally unrealistic requirements obviously) because almost nobody applied for them.

I would keep a eye on those LTR visas when they realize people who would like to work remotely for Apple in Thailand are quite rare.

 

That being said, the 900k visa might still interest Chinese people who need a "no question asked" visa. On the other hand, the few retired people who want a hassle free visa will probably be near zero even if the required deposit goes up. The price structure is also too stupid to upgrade for a longer visa if you are in your 40's. It could make sense to buy 20 years before but not anymore.

[K2938]

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

[El Matador]

Wow. They released that just after the end of old school Thai Elite visas.

Tax residency in Thailand is becoming absolutely unattractive now. Massive blow.

Have to see the details though but the new Thai Elite visa will be even less attractive in every case.

[Pattaya57]

1 hour ago, El Matador said:

Wow. They released that just after the end of old school Thai Elite visas.

Tax residency in Thailand is becoming absolutely unattractive now. Massive blow.

Have to see the details though but the new Thai Elite visa will be even less attractive in every case.

Why, it says the 61 countries who have a double tax agreement are exempt. That's all of the major countries so it's just another misleading news article with nothing to do with the Elite Visa

[El Matador]

Some people were using it to be tax resident in Thailand to avoid foreign income tax and send the money the next year to Thailand to avoid Thai taxes. Now it will be impossible to do it. 

Double tax treaties only help if an income is already taxed in the foreign country.

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Why, it says the 61 countries who have a double tax agreement are exempt. That's all of the major countries so it's just another misleading news article with nothing to do with the Elite Visa

Actually, only exempt transferred from and where tax has been paid on income in one of those 61 countries.

 

Some HNW Thailand tax residents are using the current loophole to avoid paying any tax from their businesses here. They typically use on of those 61 countries and defer returning the funds from overseas until the following tax year.

 

They are closing the loophole where you pay no tax in any country.

 

It will also hit the smarter of the digital nomads who figured out how to do it too, but those revenues are peanuts compared to what they want to stop.

Edited September 19, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[Tuvoc]

One calendar month has passed since my Elite application was submitted. Given how busy they must be, I would say it will be the full estimated 2 months before I get an approval letter. That is fine. Anyone else have recent experience with timelines ?

[nottin]

17 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

One calendar month has passed since my Elite application was submitted. Given how busy they must be, I would say it will be the full estimated 2 months before I get an approval letter. That is fine. Anyone else have recent experience with timelines ?

Should be quicker. I submitted my application online directly with Thailand Elite on about 15 August and just today received an approval letter. So less than 6 weeks. Approval letter is valid for a month. As luck would have it, am leaving on an overseas holiday this weekend for a month. So not sure what this means. I think as long as I pay 1 million Baht within the next 30 days I am good and then when come back to Thailand can go to immigration and cancel current non-OA and switch to Thailand Elite at the same time. And that maybe can be done anytime before non-OA expires. 

[Pla Sai]

Hello,

 

I applied for Elite in the beginning of August to avoid new price hike and got my approval today so around 1.5 months for approval.

 

I've been reading information they provided in approval letter and it says some nationalities need tourist visa prior to arriving to Thailand to get visa affixed at the airport - anyone knows anything about it? Sent email to their support to ask but thought I ask here as well.

 

[Sigmund]

Plus may come with a surprise tax bill to pay on basis of the new rules mentioned here, seeking to tax all pennies that come from abroad. In fact, why not also collect a tax on the money tourists bring in with them also ? ????

[K2938]

4 hours ago, Pla Sai said:

I've been reading information they provided in approval letter and it says some nationalities need tourist visa prior to arriving to Thailand to get visa affixed at the airport - anyone knows anything about it? Sent email to their support to ask but thought I ask here as well.

Presumably they mean those who cannot enter visa-free need to have a tourist visa to enter if they want the elite visa affixed at the airport, i.e. want to enter without having already gotten the elite visa affixed abroad via an embassy/consulate.  So check if you are on the list of countries able to enter visa-free and you know the answer.

[K2938]

4 hours ago, Sigmund said:

Plus may come with a surprise tax bill to pay on basis of the new rules mentioned here, seeking to tax all pennies that come from abroad. In fact, why not also collect a tax on the money tourists bring in with them also ?

Anybody getting approved for an elite visa now should ask for a deferral until there is clarity on the tax situation.

[redwood1]

Was not the last day for the old school Elite visas September 15 and was not the new Thai tax on money announced on September 18th......

 

Were not the new Elite visas raised in price between 50-500%.....Which they knew would cause loads of sales before September 15th....... Which just happen to be right before September 18th announcment which they knew would be very bad for sales...

 

O-Boy  The Elite sellers were sure lucky lucky lucky with their timing.....Just perfect timing.....

A little too perfect....

 

 

[Tuvoc]

Aways a good conspiracy theory 

[farangbuffalo]

6 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Was not the last day for the old school Elite visas September 15 and was not the new Thai tax on money announced on September 18th......

 

Were not the new Elite visas raised in price between 50-500%.....Which they knew would cause loads of sales before September 15th....... Which just happen to be right before September 18th announcment which they knew would be very bad for sales...

 

O-Boy  The Elite sellers were sure lucky lucky lucky with their timing.....Just perfect timing.....

A little too perfect....

 

 

Yeah did think about this. I guess most who applied in the past 6 weeks can still back out tho

 

 

 

[fgmr]

On 7/29/2023 at 1:11 PM, Jacques Clouseau said:

It's a strange move.

Usually when what's on offer doesn't sell, you lower your prices, right ?

Not in Thailand. I recall a Thai owned and managed bar located opposite attractive competitively priced one. While the latter was busy the former empty decided to raise their prices  when questioned the response was "we are not making any profit we have to increase price".