Social Media Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 The US government's credit rating has been downgraded following concerns over the state of the country's finances and its debt burden. Fitch, one of three major independent agencies that assess creditworthiness, downgraded it from the top rating of AAA to AA+. Fitch said it had noted a "steady deterioration" in governance over the last 20 years. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen called the downgrade "arbitrary". It was based on "outdated data" from the period 2018 to 2020, she said. Investors use credit ratings as a benchmark for judging how risky it is to lend money to a government. The US is usually considered a highly secure investment because of the size and relative stability of the economy. However, this year saw another round of political brinkmanship over government borrowing. In June the government succeeded in lifting the debt ceiling to $31.4 trillion (£24.6 trillion) but only after a drawn-out political battle, which threatened to push the country into defaulting on its debts. "The rating downgrade of the United States reflects the expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years, a high and growing general government debt burden, and the erosion of governance" relative to peers, said Fitch in a statement. FULL STORY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 Another consequence of the decline of the US. I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to claim Biden is doing great and to claim that debt has decreased during his tenure (a claim Joe himself made which has been disproved many times). https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/17/politics/biden-economy-facts-first/index.html Still, at least he's got a lovely family ????. 3 1 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 41 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Another consequence of the decline of the US. I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to claim Biden is doing great and to claim that debt has decreased during his tenure (a claim Joe himself made which has been disproved many times). https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/17/politics/biden-economy-facts-first/index.html Still, at least he's got a lovely family ????. 41 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Another consequence of the decline of the US. I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to claim Biden is doing great and to claim that debt has decreased during his tenure (a claim Joe himself made which has been disproved many times). https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/17/politics/biden-economy-facts-first/index.html Still, at least he's got a lovely family ????. Or maybe it's due to the fact that Republicans threatened not to pay the parties who held US Treasury bonds? You think the possibility of default couldn't affect America's credit rating? Really? 4 2 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EastBayRay Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 49 minutes ago, placeholder said: Or maybe it's due to the fact that Republicans threatened not to pay the parties who held US Treasury bonds? You think the possibility of default couldn't affect America's credit rating? Really? Of course it’s the Republicans fault that Biden is screwing up our economy so much that he needs to raise the debt ceiling jeez you guys… 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, EastBayRay said: Of course it’s the Republicans fault that Biden is screwing up our economy so much that he needs to raise the debt ceiling jeez you guys… Because the deficit wasn't rising under Trump as well? Didn't Trump's tax breaks actually greatly increase the deficit. In fact, the last time the deficit might have shrunk maybe was briefly under Bill Clinton just before George Bush took over and showered the wealthy with tax breaks. 2 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 40 minutes ago, EastBayRay said: Of course it’s the Republicans fault that Biden is screwing up our economy so much that he needs to raise the debt ceiling jeez you guys… "Fitch said Tuesday that the downgrade reflects an “erosion of governance” in the U.S. relative to other top-tier economies over the past two decades, pointing to the financial uncertainty posed by a series of close calls in which legislative stalemates nearly derailed routine payments on U.S. Treasury debt, typically treated by investors around the world as ultrasafe. “The repeated debt-limit political standoffs and last-minute resolutions have eroded confidence in fiscal management,” Fitch said." https://archive.ph/mH4QZ#selection-335.0-339.130 https://www.wsj.com/articles/fitch-downgrades-u-s-credit-rating-56c73b89?mod=hp_lead_pos1 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nickcage49 Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 As an American I wish I could disagree, but the USA is becoming a third world country. There are many issues. The middle class is gone, there is rich and poor. The political situation is a mess. The country is being run by a lot of people in their 80's who are out of touch with reality and there's a strong possibility the former President and crook is coming back in 2024. Gun violence is at an all time high. And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if an all out revolution breaks out between left and right. Nothing gets done in Washington because of the political infighting, nor in state houses. The far right is crazy and the far left has allowed bedlam to infest the cities. I'm so glad I don't live there anymore. I still visit, but I find the situation very sad. 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangkokHank Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 The US is bankrupt. However, it will always be able to pay its debt because its debt is in its own currency, which it can, and does, print up at will. So while it will always be able to pay its debts, the money that it uses to pay these debts will eventually be worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkarl Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Thankfully they have the printing presses running 24/7. The entire military costs and space program have always been off balance sheet. In other words, they don't care how much they spend. US power comes from the USD being the reserve currency of the world. Without it, they are done. Going off the gold standard gave politicians the green light to spend at will. Then there is Japan. A new definition for being bankrupt. Entire financial system is smoke and mirrors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 ...... GO JOE GO ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Remind me, if you know without having to look it up, who controls the budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 An off-topic troll post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingstonkid Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Quick question. Why do Thais have so much debt? Answer there is no restraint or limit on what they can borrow and rack up in debt. What do the Dems in washington want to get rid of? The debt ceiling that says you can go this far but then have to come ask daddy if you want more. This is not a Dem or GOP issue they have all been doing it. The hard truth is that they need DAVE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 It's way past time for a balanced budget amendment. Unfortunately, the idiot politicians in DC can't stop arguing about nonsense long enough to get anything done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Trippy said: It's way past time for a balanced budget amendment. Unfortunately, the idiot politicians in DC can't stop arguing about nonsense long enough to get anything done. Keep giving money away, and you sooner or later ... you run out. Maybe all the citizens should pay their $50-60k dollars share of, what ever it is now, and free the country from debt. Could always sell all the National Parks to CH & RU, or maybe just Alaska. Wow ... USA debt free. Can you imagine. One administration later, and they'd be back in debt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted August 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2023 Tax Cuts Are Primarily Responsible for the Increasing Debt Ratio Without the Bush and Trump tax cuts, debt as a percentage of the economy would be declining permanently... The nation’s fiscal pictured changed in 1981 when President Ronald Reagan enacted the largest tax cut in U.S. history,9 reducing revenues by the equivalent of $19 trillion over a decade in today’s terms. Although Congress raised taxes10 in many of the subsequent years of the Reagan administration to claw back close to half the revenue loss,11 the equivalent of $10 trillion of the president’s 1981 tax cut remained. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/ 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Bidenomics in action! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 1 hour ago, kingstonkid said: Quick question. Why do Thais have so much debt? Answer there is no restraint or limit on what they can borrow and rack up in debt. What do the Dems in washington want to get rid of? The debt ceiling that says you can go this far but then have to come ask daddy if you want more. This is not a Dem or GOP issue they have all been doing it. The hard truth is that they need DAVE I loved this. Davenomics! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 2 hours ago, KhunLA said: ...... GO JOE GO ..... Not dark enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Read the article. Note the part "a "steady deterioration" in governance over the last 20 years". President George W. Bush started the massive debt increase during his first term when the Republicans insisted that the surplus in place after the Clinton administration was a bad thing. Their answer, as always, was to cut taxes and increase spending. However there is no denying that the Democrats did little to slow down deficit spending. They saw the Republicans were not paying any noticeable price for their reckless borrow and spend policies so they did the same. This one is on both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 5 hours ago, heybruce said: Read the article. Note the part "a "steady deterioration" in governance over the last 20 years". President George W. Bush started the massive debt increase during his first term when the Republicans insisted that the surplus in place after the Clinton administration was a bad thing. Their answer, as always, was to cut taxes and increase spending. However there is no denying that the Democrats did little to slow down deficit spending. They saw the Republicans were not paying any noticeable price for their reckless borrow and spend policies so they did the same. This one is on both parties. I would dispute that it's on both parties. Keep mind that the Republicans repeatedly passed big tax cut bills with the promise that they would stimulate the economy to such an extent that they would pay for themselves. You know, the Laffer curve. (The Laugher curve?) It never happened. If just the Bush & Trump tax cuts hadn't been passed, the National Debt would be 19 trillion less in today's dollars. (Throw in the Reagan tax cuts and it's about 29 trillion less. ) In fact the ratio of debt to GDP would have continued to decline. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, placeholder said: I would dispute that it's on both parties. Keep mind that the Republicans repeatedly passed big tax cut bills with the promise that they would stimulate the economy to such an extent that they would pay for themselves. You know, the Laffer curve. (The Laugher curve?) It never happened. If just the Bush & Trump tax cuts hadn't been passed, the National Debt would be 19 trillion less in today's dollars. (Throw in the Reagan tax cuts and it's about 29 trillion less. ) In fact the ratio of debt to GDP would have continued to decline. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/ I agree that the Republican's tax cuts that were to be paid for by wishful thinking are the primary driver of the deficits, and that makes Republicans primarily responsible. However I haven't seen any significant push for deficit control by the Democrats. Neither party seems to have responsible adults in charge of budget matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, placeholder said: I would dispute that it's on both parties. Keep mind that the Republicans repeatedly passed big tax cut bills with the promise that they would stimulate the economy to such an extent that they would pay for themselves. You know, the Laffer curve. (The Laugher curve?) It never happened. If just the Bush & Trump tax cuts hadn't been passed, the National Debt would be 19 trillion less in today's dollars. (Throw in the Reagan tax cuts and it's about 29 trillion less. ) In fact the ratio of debt to GDP would have continued to decline. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/ Now that's a laff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandeventer Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 On 8/2/2023 at 4:14 PM, KhunLA said: ...... GO JOE GO ..... He will never make it, as there is a large jail cell just waiting for him and his family. You do the crime you do the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 15 minutes ago, vandeventer said: He will never make it, as there is a large jail cell just waiting for him and his family. You do the crime you do the time. Now that's a laff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, nauseus said: Now that's a laff. Thank you for your fact-filled rebuttal. Truly impressive! Or to put it another way: you've got nothing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, vandeventer said: He will never make it, as there is a large jail cell just waiting for him and his family. You do the crime you do the time. Even Comer concedes he has no criminal evidence against Joe Biden "Asked whether he would be able to prove the outrageous claim about the president, Mr Comer hesitated. Pressed further by Hannity, he finally replied: “I sure hope so. And I do believe that there’s a lot of smoke and when there’s smoke, there’s fire”." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/james-comer-biden-bribe-accusation-fox-news-b2386040.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, heybruce said: I agree that the Republican's tax cuts that were to be paid for by wishful thinking are the primary driver of the deficits, and that makes Republicans primarily responsible. However I haven't seen any significant push for deficit control by the Democrats. Neither party seems to have responsible adults in charge of budget matters. Actually Democrats did get some tax increases enacted in their budget when they controlled both houses. They would have gotten a lot more had either Manchin or Sinema supported them. Sinema balked because she wanted to protect hedge fund managers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, vandeventer said: He will never make it, as there is a large jail cell just waiting for him and his family. You do the crime you do the time. Which crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, placeholder said: Thank you for your fact-filled rebuttal. Truly impressive! Or to put it another way: you've got nothing. If you think that no tax cuts for the last few presidents mean that there would not be this high debt now then you are in dreamland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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