British TikToker praises Thai gas man’s effort to master the English language

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You may consider that pompous,

Even more so as all I asked was a question that required a one word answer!

Just to remind you the question, which was not even directed at you, was;

"Perfect in whose opinion?"

 

Just to remind you - that was answered in the first sentence... 

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

its not difficult to gauge the standard of our own language skills...  

And I added this example (unless you'd want to argue that My Wife's Thai is not perfect)

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

But I'll add another example (already used), Wife is Thai, but is sometimes misjudged as not being Thai...  and sometimes she is not understood because the person with whom she is trying to communicate doesn't think she is speaking Thai thus the brain switches off and automatically goes into the 'no understand mode' or they are 'listening out for English' mode etc....

 

I will ask you... Can you speak Thai ???... In your own opinion, what standard is your Thai ?

 

Is it widely understood to such a degree that you can converse with people in Thailand with few issues or misunderstandings ???....   

 

If so, then it's a normal expectation that when speaking Thai with Thai people that understand you, then when people don't you recognise that is usually because of them, not because if you.

 

I hope I've explained that clearly enough for you.... 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Neeranam does have a point, even if his post came across as unappreciative of the young man's efforts to practice his English. The gas station attendant's English was barely beyond rudimentary and the Tik Tok's Thai appeared to be upper intermediate if not advanced. There's sort of an unwritten rule that you defer to whichever language both people have the highest proficiency in.

 

There are some Thais who barrel ahead in broken English or spend long moments trying to recall vocabulary blithely ignoring evidence that your command of Thai is vastly superior to their English. Worse still, are Thais who instantaneously try to bully you and act dismissively about your Thai and coerce you into speaking English with them by simply refusing to acknowledge your Thai skills or make any effort to comprehend your Thai.

 

Foreigners who speak Thai well are aware of this dynamic. They are confident about their Thai language skills because they have had countless successful interactions with Thais in Thai. They know when a person is simply refusing to speak Thai with them, versus having a genuine difficulty comprehending non-native Thai. As annoying as this can sometimes be, as Neeraman said, I do agree that foreigners should be reasonably tolerant of this behavior, especially around young people who are just trying to develop their English skills.

Very well said... 

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I hope I've explained that clearly enough for you.... 

NO!

It was neither clear, wanted or required and is nothing to do with my question!

Please drop it and let the posts get back on topic!

Edited August 18, 2023 by scottiejohn

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

What makes you say that?

I simply stated that service people trying to speak English to me, when I speak Thai is annoying. 

I feel so sorry for you and guess half the guys on here probably feel the same way.

It is must be so bloody annoying for you when someone is trying to be helpful and polite, but guess that's not in your nature as you have pointed out. 

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, Thaifish said:

Is that video recorder Intrinsically safe???

Doubtful.

But definitely a Class I Div 1 and Zone 0 location.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

I think you are being generous to the tik-tok man describing his Thai ability to be upper immediate or advanced. Also think you are underestimating the gas attendant's English. What really happened is that both spoke a foreign language to each other. I don't think the gap in ability was that great.

Indeed, the foreigner in the TIkToK is not very good at Thai. Definitely not intermediate.

I know by his pronunciation and when he said nothing after the Thai said "chang yon". He obviously didn't know, or he would have told him the English, "mechanic".

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Neeranam does have a point, even if his post came across as unappreciative of the young man's efforts to practice his English. The gas station attendant's English was barely beyond rudimentary and the Tik Tok's Thai appeared to be upper intermediate if not advanced. There's sort of an unwritten rule that you defer to whichever language both people have the highest proficiency in.

 

There are some Thais who barrel ahead in broken English or spend long moments trying to recall vocabulary blithely ignoring evidence that your command of Thai is vastly superior to their English. Worse still, are Thais who instantaneously try to bully you and act dismissively about your Thai and coerce you into speaking English with them by simply refusing to acknowledge your Thai skills or make any effort to comprehend your Thai.

 

Foreigners who speak Thai well are aware of this dynamic. They are confident about their Thai language skills because they have had countless successful interactions with Thais in Thai. They know when a person is simply refusing to speak Thai with them, versus having a genuine difficulty comprehending non-native Thai. As annoying as this can sometimes be, as Neeraman said, I do agree that foreigners should be reasonably tolerant of this behavior, especially around young people who are just trying to develop their English skills.

Good post. 

[Neeranam]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

There could be an element of that to it... 

 

When speaking Thai, if the other person fails to recognise that I am speaking Thai its irritating. 

The source of the irritation ???...

 

- could be...  I've made effort to learn and practice and you can't even understand me. 

- could be... I'm speaking Thai, is it that rubbish ??

- could be... I know my Thai is fine I interact with Thai's on a daily basis, how is it possible you don't know I'm speaking Thai, thats strange. 

 

 

 

It's extremely irritating and to prove it's not my fault, I never have the issue when using the telephone, but very often in face to face situations, especially t 7/11! 

[kwilco]

53 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

There's definitely a facet of this for some, meanwhile for others the issue comes down to the person with whom we are conversing. 

 

I've had a Thai's behind me in a queue (at a cashiers) tell the Cashier I was speaking Thai to them after the failed to grasp a simple question I had to repeat - only then could the conversation progress and it did so without further issue.

 

I've found this situation to be more common in tourist areas where Thai's are less familiar with foreigners who can speak Thai. 

 

In tourist area's I often give up speaking Thai all together because of this 'expectation' which lends itself to an initial confusion...  Wife often orders food etc in English when in a very touristy area too...  

This may also be because the staff there are not Thai and could be from Burma, Vietnam etc and have a better handle of English than Thai in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

Yes - I think that foreigners simply don't realise how bad their pronunciation is and the Thai person seems to think they are speaking English because that's what it sounds like.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

- could be...  I've made effort to learn and practice and you can't even understand me. 

- could be... I'm speaking Thai, is it that rubbish ??

- could be... I know my Thai is fine I interact with Thai's on a daily basis, how is it possible you don't know I'm speaking Thai, thats strange. 

We could simplify it as something like: "Person A feels that their knowledge of Thai elevates their social status, and by refusing to validate this, person B is lowering their social status, which angers person A."

Edited August 18, 2023 by BangkokReady

[BangkokReady]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

to prove it's not my fault, I never have the issue when using the telephone

But can you be sure that you don't subconsciously alter the way you talk when you use the phone in a way that you are unaware of, making your Thai understandable?

 

You would need to record yourself in conversation with a Thai who cannot understand you, then play the same words to a Thai over the phone and see if they can.

[geisha]

5 hours ago, malathione said:

So he ran across one of perhaps millions who practice speaking English with foreigners everyday.

That’s probably right .

[transam]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

But can you be sure that you don't subconsciously alter the way you talk when you use the phone in a way that you are unaware of, making your Thai understandable?

 

You would need to record yourself in conversation with a Thai who cannot understand you, then play the same words to a Thai over the phone and see if they can.

On the phone I press "9", get a very nice lady speaking perfect English and actually understands what I am saying.....Great.........

[geisha]

9 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

We could simplify it as something like: "Person A feels that their knowledge of Thai elevates their social status, and by refusing to validate this, person B is lowering their social status, which angers them."

No, most Thais burst out laughing when I try to speak Thai !!  Doesn’t bother me.

[Gecko123]

30 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

We could simplify it as something like: "Person A feels that their knowledge of Thai elevates their social status, and by refusing to validate this, person B is lowering their social status, which angers them."

This is very true, and it's only human nature. People invest a lot of time and energy learning a language, and it's frustrating when validation of those efforts is not forthcoming. 

 

A couple of posters keep saying that the only reason some Thais don't understand non-native Thai is because the foreigner's Thai is deficient. That is no doubt true in some cases, but is by no means true in every case. Even highly proficient speakers encounter Thais who have a mental block when it comes to comprehending non-native speakers. The reason the non-native speaker can say with confidence that it isn't their Thai which is problematic is because they have had countless successful verbal interactions with Thais in the past.

 

In my opinion, posters who are saying that the root cause can only be because the foreigner's Thai is deficient, are unwittingly revealing that their own Thai is insufficient to have made this observation independently on their own. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Gecko123

[loong]

2 hours ago, wazzupnow said:

ow you are the worst 

Why am I the worst?

This is my post that you quoted

Quote

  4 hours ago, loong said:

I agree with you - to a point.

I find it annoying when I speak Thai and they reply in English when their English is extremely poor and I find it very difficult to understand what they are saying.

I am far from fluent in Thai, so if their English is better than my Thai, I am happy to speak English with them.

If they ask if they can practice their English with me, I am happy to comply.

Please tell me what makes you think that I am the worst after reading my post.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

This is very true, and it's only human nature. People invest a lot of time and energy learning a language, and it's frustrating when validation of those efforts is not forthcoming. 

 

A couple of posters keep saying that the only reason some Thais don't understand non-native Thai is because the foreigner's Thai is deficient. That is no doubt true in some cases, but is by no means true in every case. Even highly proficient speakers encounter Thais who have a mental block when it comes to comprehending non-native speakers, and the reason they can say that it isn't their Thai which is problematic is because they have had countless successful verbal interactions with Thais in the past. In my opinion, posters who say that it can only be because the foreigner's Thai is deficient are inadvertently and unwittingly revealing that their Thai is insufficient to have made this observation on their own.

I went to an English seminar, they wanted folk to hear "proper" English spoken, all went well until I said something in Thai, when I got back to my seat, the Thai English teacher said......

" You just mentioned horse's private parts"..........????................????

Edited August 18, 2023 by transam

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

This is very true, and it's only human nature. People invest a lot of time and energy learning a language, and it's frustrating when validation of those efforts is not forthcoming. 

 

A couple of posters keep saying that the only reason some Thais don't understand non-native Thai is because the foreigner's Thai is deficient. That is no doubt true in some cases, but is by no means true in every case. Even highly proficient speakers encounter Thais who have a mental block when it comes to comprehending non-native speakers. The reason the non-native speaker can say with confidence that it isn't their Thai which is problematic is because they have had countless successful verbal interactions with Thais in the past.

 

In my opinion, posters who are saying that the root cause can only be because the foreigner's Thai is deficient, are unwittingly revealing that their own Thai is insufficient to have made this observation independently on their own. 

good post, very accurate

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Even highly proficient speakers encounter Thais who have a mental block when it comes to comprehending non-native speakers

THat is just a claim by arrogant foreigners who overestimate their ability ti use Thai language

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

" You just mentioned horse's private parts"..........????................????

i hope you didn't try and tell the you like eating snow-fish ????  

[kennw]

6 hours ago, malathione said:

So he ran across one of perhaps millions who practice speaking English with foreigners everyday.

Probably Burmese

[Elkski]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

Full marks to the young man for efforts in learning a language.

But it also begs the question of why the teacher is so patronising.

We need to look more critically at how and why we value the English language in Thailand. THere seems to be a bias amongst foreigners who think that all Thais should learn English yet they refuse to learn any Thai.

I note that in their home countries many think it sould be essential that immigrants learn the home langauge, but this doesn't seem to be applied to themselves in Thailand.

 

 

I think it's mainly because Thailand relies so heavily on tourists and the universal language of the World is English. 

 

This bloggers praise and surprise is an indication of how poorly English is taught in most  schools.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by Elkski

[transam]

1 minute ago, Elkski said:

I think it's mainly because Thailand relies so heavily on tourists and the universal language of the World is English. 

The Asian countries, ASEAN, agreed to communicate in English.

So English has now been given the green light in LOS to get their act together.

I have been to a few of the meetings......????

[Arthur Mullard]

5 hours ago, WHansen said:

A nice feel good story that turns into bunch of armchair warriors only seeing negatives yet again.

 

First class entertainment though ????

[geisha]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Personally, I find this type of attendant extremely annoying. I speak Thai and they often can't figure that out. 

That’s very rude and one obnoxious of you. 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, kwilco said:

16 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Even highly proficient speakers encounter Thais who have a mental block when it comes to comprehending non-native speakers

THat is just a claim by arrogant foreigners who overestimate their ability ti use Thai language

Then why (as Neeranam mentioned) it happens less on the phone with him ?

 

Why does a Thai who may not have the clear appearance of a Thai encounter something similar ?

 

My Thai is far from perfect, yet I have ordered a GrabTaxi and received a call from the GrabDriver for directions, even though my name is clearly Western (on the App), when I get in the car the driver has expressed surprise that I'm a Westerner (this one baffles me as my Thai is not that good, perhaps during the limited conversation the accent was clear)...  Yet, I can find times when a person right in front of me draws an utter blank when I'm speaking relatively simple Thai.

 

It's obvious to me that the 'eyes not believing the ears' is not an uncommon occurrence here.

 

 

But of course, go ahead and assume its arrogant foreigners... couldn't be anything else could it ??? 

 

I am intrigued however, I would have thought that in general those foreigners who have taken the time to learn Thai and integrate into society here are less likely to express arrogance than those who simply expect everyone in a foreign country to speak English..... (not all of course).

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by richard_smith237

[Arthur Mullard]

8 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I think it's mainly because Thailand relies so heavily on tourists and the universal language of the World is English. 

 

This bloggers praise and surprise is an indication of how poorly English is taught in most  schools.  

Some truth in that I would agree - and add that a number of factors explain it IMO ranging from the Thais themselves especially school heads and their academic credentials... the range of quality of teachers... the range of nationalities among teachers... and probably from top down at a government level, entrenched old cultural ways that are stuck in traditional thinking. 

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, malathione said:

So he ran across one of perhaps millions who practice speaking English with foreigners everyday.

Very few of whom are to be found sat behind windows at immigration offices, though, unfortunately.☹️

[ketilnm]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

What makes you say that?

I simply stated that service people trying to speak English to me, when I speak Thai is annoying. 

That's becouse your thai is poor and they can't understand you.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Then why (as Neeranam mentioned) it happens less on the phone with him ?

It doesn't - he just thinks it does.

THere is also the point that he might make more effort beg=fore speaking Thai on a phone and change his phrasing.

most of this is either prejudice or confirmation bias.

 

I have trained in languages for several decades and am aware of how people learn languages - not just Thai people but from all over the world. I have studies how people have acquired language and noted the problems and mistakes they make.

One thing to bear in mind is that something like 90% of language learners over estimate their ability in whatever language they speak and are therefore much more likely to blame others for their own shortcomings.

Edited August 18, 2023 by kwilco