France to ban female students from wearing abayas in state schools

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

That picture speaks a million words about what is wrong with western education and integration !

The picture  is misleading. Abayas do not cover the head, they are just long dress.

Hijab have already been banned for more than 15 years in France, this is not the same thing.

[observer90210]

35 minutes ago, candide said:

I also would no be surprised about the girls feeling relieved, being allowed again to dress like the other girls, i.e. with just jeans and sweat-shirt

The problem is that many of the girls choose to wear abayas and do not wish to dress differently. Saying that they are force is not always true.

Edited August 28, 2023 by observer90210

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Did it happen? I am not going to start page after page of incidents but it happens especially in Yorkshire and other areas of high Muslim communities. The excuse is the usual it is because photos or Videos are taken, In reality, it is the fear of upsetting non-Christian pupils.

Some Schools may decide not to have Nativity plays , that is up to individual schools to decide that , but the plays were not banned as claimed , Schools just decided not to have them for whatever reason 

[BarraMarra]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

Some Schools may decide not to have Nativity plays , that is up to individual schools to decide that , but the plays were not banned as claimed , Schools just decided not to have them for whatever reason 

Its ok Nick you can admit it does happen in high Muslim areas or skate around it.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Its ok Nick you can admit it does happen in high Muslim areas or skate around it.

Your claim is that Nativity plays are banned in the U.K , that claim is incorrect . 

[FruitPudding]

1 hour ago, Sigmund said:

And what would you say if in Thailand the Thai's think the same about us farangs ? Such ideas you advocate work both ways.

Of course they don't want foreigners having power over Thais in Thailand.

 

And they have a very good immigration policy to protect their country.

 

Rightly so.

[observer90210]

When we hear all the (justified) lassitude or ranting regarding immigration hassles in Thailand, I am afraid that many would not agree.

Edited August 28, 2023 by observer90210

[RocketDog]

34 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

In a Church a Mosque or a Synagogue...religion is plainly an excuse and outlet for many freaks who just want to take the readings out of context and spread their hate with preaching extremists.

 

The Bible, the Coran, the Torah and so on,  have never advocated for hate in their texts.

But somehow it's always been practiced. It's in the subtext saying "we are the only true ones. God is on our side". Division and repression are Intrinsically part of all religions and cults.

BTW, maybe you should read the Koran again. It very clearly states that all infidels should be either executed, enslaved, or taxed.  This could be done without hate?

I've discussed this with Muslims and they assure me that this isn't really done anymore while asserting that study of the Koran is a pillar of Islam and that the Koran is immutable and wholly true.

I'm not the least bit reassured.

[RocketDog]

43 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Like this one Nick.

 

A primary school infuriated parents after cancelling the traditional Christmas nativity play to make way for the Muslim festival of Eid.

Parents at the Nottingham school were told that the planned performance had to be pulled because some of the pupils wanted to celebrate Eid at home with their families.

In a letter, sent by the staff at Greenwood Junior School, mothers and fathers were told: 'It is with much regret that we have had to cancel this year's Christmas performances.

 

Religion spoils everything. It's a blight on humanity.

[RocketDog]

26 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

The problem is that many of the girls choose to wear abayas and do not wish to dress differently. Saying that they are force is not always true.

Being spoon-fed religious nonsense from the moment of birth is use of force.

Very few folks can escape such shackles but please don't call it choice.

 

I sure children choose to wear suicide vests too. They certainly make quite the fashion accessory.

[BarraMarra]

18 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Your claim is that Nativity plays are banned in the U.K , that claim is incorrect . 

Ok Nick I will retract that statement however there are Schools up and down the UK  where Nativity plays have been removed due to the Christian belief of Jesus that some Muslim parents object to. In some Schools 95% are Muslim origin with Immans as Teachers. How would you feel if your Son or Dau came home one day and said Daddy today i learned about the prophet Muhammed.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Can you get any more racist than that.  Are the other religions restricted from wearing such clothing;

Jews & kippah/ tznuit

Sikh & dastar

Amish & organdy head bonnet

Uni religion or Atheist from a scarf

No one should be allowed anywhere in public with their face covered. Simples.

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Ok Nick I will retract that statement however there are Schools up and down the UK  where Nativity plays have been removed due to the Christian belief of Jesus that some Muslim parents object to. 

Can you give a link to show in which Schools this has happened ?

[observer90210]

8 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Being spoon-fed religious nonsense from the moment of birth is use of force.

Very few folks can escape such shackles but please don't call it choice.

 

I sure children choose to wear suicide vests too. They certainly make quite the fashion accessory.

Do not misunderstand my point as I have no belief in any form of religious symbols or practice. Obviously peer pressure exists and has influence. But I may consider that once an adult and if living in the west, people can choose for themselves and bypass certain codes.

 

Furthermore, I do see many kids within the norms as considered by some... of a "decent family" (caucasian, white, christian catholic bla bla). The teen girls leave home dressed to the neck and once outside, they change clothes and wear the tight tank tops showing cleavage. All teens have social pressure should it be muslims or the puritain catholics and so on. But obviously it can reach some other extremes as you have stated.

 

One cannot take muslims seriously banning booze, praying and on the other side getting drunk or stoned in hi-so circles in Abu Dhabi or Dubai and similar.

 

Neither can one take seriously  those in Sunday church service with wife and family, all squeeky clean and the next night they are showering 1$ bills in some seedy stripper club during the Monday "business trip".

 

One could consider the atheists and agnostics as the future to peace in the world.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I can definitely agree with the removal of all identifying 'labels', as the root of most issues. 

 

We're human, not nationalities, race, religion, gender or colors.

IMO you are trying to have it both ways. The wearing of an abaya is an identifying label, yes?

Governments and taxpayers should not be dictated to by shrill minorities. If a secular education is unacceptable on the grounds of religious beliefs, they are free to use their own money to establish private schools.

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

 

One could consider the atheists and agnostics as the future to peace in the world.

When one considers Putin has enlisted God to be on his side, with whole-hearted co-operation by the Russian Orthodox Church, it does tend to validate your point of view.

[Sigmund]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

When one considers Putin has enlisted God to be on his side, with whole-hearted co-operation by the Russian Orthodox Church, it does tend to validate your point of view.

Same for the bible and M16 tooting,  mass murderers in America and other western nations - no better.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

Same for the bible and M16 tooting,  mass murderers in America and other western nations - no better.

Point taken, although Putin as a mass murderer does take some beating.

[Sigmund]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Point taken, although Putin as a mass murderer does take some beating.

Point take,

Are some other western, middle-eastern or asian leaders any better if you look deep into the picture of their actions, well behind the scenes ?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sigmund

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

Point take,

Are some other western leaders any better if you look deep into the picture or their actions behind the scenes ?

One could argue Bush, Blair etc. were no better in Iraq. Or Reagan with Nicaragua, Johnson in Vietnam.

The reason I single out Putin is because he is following the Stalin model of forced repatriation ( children as well ), and genocide. AFAIK no Western leader has gone that far.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Lacessit

[mikeymike100]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

It's called Islamophobia.

Absolute nonsense!????

[Sigmund]

Just now, Lacessit said:

One could argue Bush, Blair etc. were no better in Iraq. Or Reagan with Nicaragua, Johnson in Vietnam.

The reason I single out Putin is he is following the Stalin model of forced repatriation ( children as well ), and genocide. AFAIK no Western leader has gone that far.

With those you have cited,  their decisions or actions,  they created similar issues of collateral exodus. The modus operandi may differ but the consequences are usually the same.

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, Sigmund said:

In a Church a Mosque or a Synagogue...religion is plainly an excuse and outlet for many freaks who just want to take the readings out of context and spread their hate with preaching extremists.

 

The Bible, the Coran, the Torah and so on,  have never advocated for hate in their texts.

What?  Have you read them? 

 

They are all on about hell and punishment, damdarion and eternal torture. 

 

They tell their believers to go out and either convert people to their reigion or kill them...smash babies heads on rocks, force raped women to marry their attaxker.  Their gods also kill and smite the enemy nations and lands of people who don't believe in that religion. 

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

 

Every religion boasts of their very own 'One True God'.

Makes me wonder if all those gods have a religion  with One Truer God.

Or if all those gods have an annual get together, like a G7 meeting...

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, wombat said:

The more we empower minorities the more they want untill the minority dictate to the majority

True. But do you really see the Muslims in France demanding ALL girls\women cover their heads\bodies?

Freedom of religion means anyone can worship and believe who or whoever they want as long as they don't force anyone else to go their way or stop anyone going another way.

Now, if they start demanding special prayer time during school schedule - that would be wrong. 

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Ones religious belief, if they have one, is -or should be, a purely private matter (sadly in most cases hoisted upon one at birth). It should be kept that way. PRIVATE. Not open for all to see. Do what/wear what you like in private, but conform to accepted norms in public.

Expected norms?

 

What is "norm"?

[daejung]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Can you get any more racist than that.  Are the other religions restricted from wearing such clothing;

Jews & kippah/ tznuit

Sikh & dastar

Amish & organdy head bonnet

Uni religion or Atheist from a scarf

Yes they are !

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The law has been in place for many years (2004). This includes Kippahs and even large cross pendants. Sikh are also not allowed head dress in schools

"In addition, the law is seen by some as disproportionately affecting Muslims, arguing that Christians rarely wear oversized crosses, and Sikhs have successfully lobbied to be able to wear a simple under-turban, whereas Jews have greater opportunities to enroll children in private Jewish religious schools owing to their long presence in the country."

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools}

Why are even small Christian religious objects allowed to be displayed? Makes no sense if the goal is to keep religious identity anonymous. By the same token, why are Sikhs allowed to  wear any kind of turban?

The target of this law is obvious.^[2]

 

 

 

 

[Sigmund]

46 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

What?  Have you read them? 

 

They are all on about hell and punishment, damdarion and eternal torture. 

 

They tell their believers to go out and either convert people to their reigion or kill them...smash babies heads on rocks, force raped women to marry their attaxker.  Their gods also kill and smite the enemy nations and lands of people who don't believe in that religion. 

Definately no doubt though that you ... you have not read any of the religious books (Koran, Bible, Torah...)

 

You are completely confusing the point between what is written in these religious book and how it is interpreted by the radicals, belivers in their hate preachings and sayings.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, JensenZ said:

They are working on it. I don't think Amish clothing is much of a concern in France...

Are their none that immigrated from Switzerland or Germany in France ?

 

edit & answered: "At the beginning of the 18th century, the Amish communities once more had to face persecution ... Louis XIV decreed their expulsion from French territory."

Edited August 28, 2023 by KhunLA