Denial of Aussie pension

[Michael Howells]

Hi new here. Need advice, I've been living in Thailand since 2012, married to a Thai lady since 2013. I am now eligible for the Australian pension in April 2023. I returned to Australia in December 2022 to prepare to apply for the pension. Did everything right , came by to Australia expecting to stay here for 2 years. Any way I have just been rejected by service Australia and the reason being that I have not been a permanent resident  in Australia for a long time. Now I had lived and worked in Australia for over 30 years before I went to Thailand. They say that the 2 year rules don't apply in this case. I will get the rejection reviewed, but is there anybody out there that has had the same result as me. Service Australia said if I remain in Australia Ivan get the pension, they actually tried to have my wife come over here to live. She is still working and has close family ties there. So can someone help me with the dilemma 

[FritsSikkink]

Tell them that you will relocate, get your pension and move back.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Michael Howells said:

Hi new here. Need advice, I've been living in Thailand since 2012, married to a Thai lady since 2013. I am now eligible for the Australian pension in April 2023. I returned to Australia in December 2022 to prepare to apply for the pension. Did everything right , came by to Australia expecting to stay here for 2 years. Any way I have just been rejected by service Australia and the reason being that I have not been a permanent resident  in Australia for a long time. Now I had lived and worked in Australia for over 30 years before I went to Thailand. They say that the 2 year rules don't apply in this case. I will get the rejection reviewed, but is there anybody out there that has had the same result as me. Service Australia said if I remain in Australia Ivan get the pension, they actually tried to have my wife come over here to live. She is still working and has close family ties there. So can someone help me with the dilemma 

IIRC one needs to be resident in Australia for 35 years to ensure pension eligibility.

The two year rule should not apply as you were in Australia when you became eligible. As I understand it, two years only applies if the applicant is outside Australia when they become eligible.

Definitely appeal the decision, IME front-line staff don't know all the rules. You need an appointment with a Financial Services Officer.

[ozfarang]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC one needs to be resident in Australia for 35 years to ensure pension eligibility.

The two year rule should not apply as you were in Australia when you became eligible. As I understand it, two years only applies if the applicant is outside Australia when they become eligible.

Definitely appeal the decision, IME front-line staff don't know all the rules. You need an appointment with a Financial Services Officer.

That was not the case for my wife(Thai) who had not been a resident for 35 years, only 27 years. She was granted the full pension in mid February this year.

 

She now needs to stay 2 years for her pension to become portable.

 

 

[ozfarang]

@Michael Howellsdid you inform Services Australia that you are married to a Thai who is working in Thailand when you initially applied for the OAP?

 

May be a factor in being denied

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, ozfarang said:

That was not the case for my wife(Thai) who had not been a resident for 35 years, only 27 years. She was granted the full pension in mid February this year.

 

She now needs to stay 2 years for her pension to become portable.

 

 

How did she qualify for an Australian pension, having Thai nationality?

[Will27]

12 hours ago, Lacessit said:

How did she qualify for an Australian pension, having Thai nationality?

Being a dual national doesn't affect her applying for the OAP.

[ozfarang]

12 hours ago, Lacessit said:

How did she qualify for an Australian pension, having Thai nationality?

She has been an Australian citizen for 27 years

[Will27]

OP

Need a bit more information.

 

I'm pretty sure you have to reestablish residency again when you return.

Have you told Centrelink you are staying in Australia?

 

Have you remained in Australia since you applied in 2022?

 

Maybe cut and paste the rejection letter without your personal details.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Will27

[simple1]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

one needs to be resident in Australia for 35 years to ensure pension eligibility

Incorrect, actual residency criteria below:

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/residence-rules-for-age-pension?context=22526

 

 

[Peterw42]

OP, in the 10 years you have lived in Thailand, have you continued to do tax returns, voted, kept a house in Australia etc. 

Or, are you like many guys who get great pleasure in declaring to all the government depts that you now live in Thailand.

Are you an actual citizen or have you lived in Australia as a resident prior to leaving

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

OP

Need a bit more information.

 

I'm pretty sure you have to reestablish residency again when you return.

Have you told Centrelink you are staying in Australia?

 

Have you remained in Australia since you applied in 2022?

Your spot on with these questions Will27.

 

Services Australia have to establish that anyone applying are going to stay in Oz to get the pension, if they believe you are going to FO back to Thailand after the 2 year period, you will be denied, and that is what I believe has happened here, e.g. wife is in Thailand working, he said they tried to get her to come back to Oz, if she did, he would have had a better chance.

 

Problem here is too many guys think they are entitled to the pension when they are overseas, then get knocked back when they return because they don't know the legislation, i.e. the applicant must meet the criteria, and if Services Australia believe the applicant is not going to stay after the 2 years, then they will deny the application, one can appeal of course, and good luck with that. Best to say I am here to stay, wife didn't want to come back so we separated, proof would be required of course and that wouldn't be to hard to prove.

 

After the 2 years is up, you can do what you want, they can't stop you, but during the two years you must stay put, albeit I believe they allow you short breaks overseas which doesn't affect the 2 years, but am not 100% on that, just third party sayings, they might stop the pension while your away though ?

 

I will be returning in a few years to apply for it, my wife is younger than me, so I will get the married rate, but for one person, which is less than the single rate by about $150 per fortnight, that said, if I told them that we separated, I can get the single rate, I say separated because divorcing is about $1,000 doing it yourself.

 

Also being separated means she can get jobseeker allowance until she finds a job, which is about $700 per fortnight.

 

If we don't separate she can't get Jobseeker allowance because my assets are also her assets according to the way they assess jobseeker allowance, I believe, and if she is assessed as having part of my assets, it's game over.

 

Now we all know rents in Oz are through the roof, so playing the system for two years doing my due diligence doesn't phase me at all, wife is just going to have to lay low, after all we will be separate oi 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[georgegeorgia]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Your spot on with these questions Will27.

 

Services Australia have to establish that anyone applying are going to stay in Oz to get the pension, if they believe you are going to FO back to Thailand after the 2 year period, you will be denied, and that is what I believe has happened here, e.g. wife is in Thailand working, he said they tried to get her to come back to Oz, if she did, he would have had a better chance.

 

Problem here is too many guys think they are entitled to the pension when they are overseas, then get knocked back when they return because they don't know the legislation, i.e. the applicant must meet the criteria, and if Services Australia believe the applicant is not going to stay after the 2 years, then they will deny the application, one can appeal of course, and good luck with that. Best to say I am here to stay, wife didn't want to come back so we separated, proof would be required of course and that wouldn't be to hard to prove.

 

After the 2 years is up, you can do what you want, they can't stop you, but during the two years you must stay put, albeit I believe they allow you short breaks overseas which doesn't affect the 2 years, but am not 100% on that, just third party sayings, they might stop the pension while your away though ?

 

I will be returning in a few years to apply for it, my wife is younger than me, so I will get the married rate, but for one person, which is less than the single rate by about $150 per fortnight, that said, if I told them that we separated, I can get the single rate, I say separated because divorcing is about $1,000 doing it yourself.

 

Also being separated means she can get jobseeker allowance until she finds a job, which is about $700 per fortnight.

 

If we don't separate she can't get Jobseeker allowance because my assets are also her assets according to the way they assess jobseeker allowance, I believe, and if she is assessed as having part of my assets, it's game over.

 

Now we all know rents in Oz are through the roof, so playing the system for two years doing my due diligence doesn't phase me at all, wife is just going to have to lay low, after all we will be separate oi 

 

You will have to use a different address

 

[georgegeorgia]

You can read all the appeals online .

Most didn't establish ties to Australia

Eg taxation, house ownership ,work , etc 

You can go to the admin appeals website and read similar cases 

[4MyEgo]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:54 PM, georgegeorgia said:

You will have to use a different address

 

Already got that one covered.

[scorecard]

On 8/28/2023 at 3:55 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Tell them that you will relocate, get your pension and move back.

Meaning: you have to satisy the requirements to prove that you are re-establishing a home in Australia. Read the regulations/requirements, it's not difficult.

 

I've read so many comments on this board and others where the Aussie said impolite even insulting things to the Services/C'link people, then wonder why they get rejected.

 

It's not difficult at all and there's plenty of resources to get more detailed info. 

 

[scorecard]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

Meaning: you have to satisy the requirements to prove that you are re-establishing a home in Australia. Read the regulations/requirements, it's not difficult.

 

I've read so many comments on this board and others where the Aussie said impolite even insulting things to the Services/C'link people, then wonder why they get rejected.

 

It's not difficult at all and there's plenty of resources to get more detailed info. 

 

Here's an example, very dumb / lame brainded Aussie returns and tries to tell Immigration officers at Sydney Airport to not record his arrival. They refuse, big discussion, police called he gets charge with causing an afray at an airport, fined.

 

He then goes to the local C'link office to lodge his as yet uncompleted OAP applications forms and insists he is entitled to have a C'link officer complete the forms for him. Eventually he does it himself. And more...

[Will27]

12 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Here's an example, very dumb / lame brainded Aussie returns and tries to tell Immigration officers at Sydney Airport to not record his arrival. They refuse, big discussion, police called he gets charge with causing an afray at an airport, fined.

 

He then goes to the local C'link office to lodge his as yet uncompleted OAP applications forms and insists he is entitled to have a C'link officer complete the forms for him. Eventually he does it himself. And more...

I've got no idea what this means and what you're getting at TBH.

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:06 AM, Peterw42 said:

Or, are you like many guys who get great pleasure in declaring to all the government depts that you now live in Thailand.

Doesn't matter what you declare.  They know you are have not been living inside Australia, and for how long.  That's all they need to know. 

[still kicking]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:54 PM, georgegeorgia said:

You will have to use a different address

 

I am on the OAP I got separated (not divorced) and get the single pension now. I have a different address than my wife's. My wife is working and makes between 35 and 50 dollars per hour pending on the day and I get my full pension about 1340 $ per fortnight (including rent assistant, electricity sub and other) We are married for 20 years, and my wife has dual citizen ship. We still travel twice a year to Thailand.

[Adumbration]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:29 PM, Lacessit said:

IIRC one needs to be resident in Australia for 35 years to ensure pension eligibility.

The two year rule should not apply as you were in Australia when you became eligible. As I understand it, two years only applies if the applicant is outside Australia when they become eligible.

Definitely appeal the decision, IME front-line staff don't know all the rules. You need an appointment with a Financial Services Officer.

Incorrect.  The OP (who I assume is another fake account) would be grandfathered in to the 25 years working life eligibility.

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, still kicking said:

I am on the OAP I got separated (not divorced) and get the single pension now. I have a different address than my wife's. My wife is working and makes between 35 and 50 dollars per hour pending on the day and I get my full pension about 1340 $ per fortnight (including rent assistant, electricity sub and other) We are married for 20 years, and my wife has dual citizen ship. We still travel twice a year to Thailand.

Isn't that illegal?

 

Claiming you are separated, when you actually are not?   

[still kicking]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Isn't that illegal?

 

Claiming you are separated, when you actually are not?   

What is illegal about it we are separate she lives in a different place 

[KhunHeineken]

10 minutes ago, still kicking said:

What is illegal about it we are separate she lives in a different place 

"We still travel twice a year to Thailand."  

 

Does she, really? 

 

As sharp as a bowling ball. 

 

Of course, no way, ever, ever, will any computer data  base ever catch out such smart people.  Nothing can possibly ever cross reference, ever.  

Edited September 24, 2023 by KhunHeineken

[still kicking]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"We still travel twice a year to Thailand."  

 

Does she, really? 

 

As sharp as a bowling ball. 

 

Of course, no way, ever, ever, will any computer data  base ever catch out such smart people.  Nothing can possibly ever cross reference, ever.  

I don't have to answer you anymore you are sick good by

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, still kicking said:

I don't have to answer you anymore you are sick good by

Your secret is safe with all of us on AN.  We will not tell any government agency that you claim to be separated, but are actually still together.

 

It's illegal, but good luck to you, but just remember, the letter in the mail could come at any time, with a request to pay it all back, and then you may wish you never went for the few extra bucks a fortnight.  

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

"We still travel twice a year to Thailand."  

 

Does she, really? 

 

As sharp as a bowling ball. 

 

Of course, no way, ever, ever, will any computer data  base ever catch out such smart people.  Nothing can possibly ever cross reference, ever.  

If people are living at different residential addresses, they can legally claim to be separated under Centrelink rules.

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, Adumbration said:

Incorrect.  The OP (who I assume is another fake account) would be grandfathered in to the 25 years working life eligibility.

Speaking of incorrect, aren't you the guy claiming the AUD was collapsing?

[Olmate]

53 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If people are living at different residential addresses, they can legally claim to be separated under Centrelink rules.

Even can live at same address, in my own case a visit from clink to inspect home and show living seperately but in the one  house.

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

If people are living at different residential addresses, they can legally claim to be separated under Centrelink rules.

Yes.  They just play sleep overs.