Immigration News for all Thai dual citizens

[george]

No more restrictions when entering Thailand on a foreign passport.

 

For all Thai dual citizens:
 

A directive has been sent to all immigration officials stating that Thai nationals who enter Thailand on a foreign passport are no longer treated as foreign nationals for immigration purposes and that they can come and go as they please, without restrictions, on foreign passport so long as they also have proof of Thai nationality (for instance an ID card.
 

This brings to an end the perverse situation of many Thais (for whatever reason) entering Thailand on a foreign passport and being treated as a foreigner for immigration purposes.

 

Source: FB Group “Thai Citizenship Group”

 

Comment:

 

Now I’m still reading up on this, and for the moment I’ll say this is good news for those born with Thai nationality. For those who naturalise as Thai citizens I think it’s wise to be cautious and NOT use your foreign passport in Thailand given the clauses in the nationality act which give the right for the government to strip naturalised Thais (as well as those born with Thai citizenship but with TWO foreign parents with PR) of their Thai citizenship.

 

 

[Neeranam]

It will help dual citizens coming here to work as English teachers. They can now show their UK/US passports in order to get a higher salary as Native English speakers.

Previously, they often only got the lower Thai wage as they never entered on their foreign passport.

 

 At the moment, I can't make use of my 'former' passport within Thailand. Showing a company/school my British passport in order to get a higher salary is reason to revoke my Thai nationality. This may be different now. 

 

However, there are different laws for citizens born in Thailand and Naturalized ones. 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Neeranam

[BritTim]

46 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

However, there are different laws for citizens born in Thailand and Naturalized ones. 

I would welcome having my understanding on this clarified. There appears to be no problem for Thai nationals from birth who also qualify for a second nationality, right? Those who apply for Thai nationality are told they must renounce their original nationality. Am I correct? What happens (in cases like this) if you promised to renounce your original nationality, but still retained dual nationality? Is it grounds to revoke your Thai nationality?

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, george said:

For those who naturalise as Thai citizens I think it’s wise to be cautious and NOT use your foreign passport in Thailand given the clauses in the nationality act which give the right for the government to strip naturalised Thais (as well as those born with Thai citizenship but with TWO foreign parents with PR) of their Thai citizenship.

I've heard of this many times, but when asking for details, I get mud. It's not like it applies to me, but the topics of what nationality does a child, born in Thailand, where both parents have a Thai PR, is still very elusive. Would you know if there is any merit in this? Last time I've brought up this topic I was told I better not ask those who got citizenship in this way how they got it, as it was likely under the table. But I can't see why this "rumour" of a way of getting citizenship this way would circulate for such a long time if there was nothing to it at all...

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I would welcome having my understanding on this clarified. There appears to be no problem for Thai nationals from birth who also qualify for a second nationality, right? Those who apply for Thai nationality are told they must renounce their original nationality. Am I correct? What happens (in cases like this) if you promised to renounce your original nationality, but still retained dual nationality? Is it grounds to revoke your Thai nationality?

I never "promised" to renounce my British citizenship. The wording is "intend" to renounce on gaining Thai citizenship, and of course intentions change.

 

Although the Thai Nationality legislation does not specifically allow Dual Nationality, nor does it specifically legislate against it, all it states is that during the year after a Dual Citizen reaches the age of 20 he / she MAY choose to renounce their Thai Citizenship; it is not an obligation and there is no penalty for not doing so.

Most Dual Citizens simply do anything and continue to hold Dual Nationality.

You can also be confident that there is virtually NO chance of Dual Citizenship ever being legislated against in Thailand. Literally thousands of Thais hold Dual Citizenship - many of them in positions of power or influence - and they want the status quo to continue.  
 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I've heard of this many times, but when asking for details, I get mud. It's not like it applies to me, but the topics of what nationality does a child, born in Thailand, where both parents have a Thai PR, is still very elusive. Would you know if there is any merit in this? Last time I've brought up this topic I was told I better not ask those who got citizenship in this way how they got it, as it was likely under the table. But I can't see why this "rumour" of a way of getting citizenship this way would circulate for such a long time if there was nothing to it at all...

I heard that children of PRs could become Thai citizens prior to 1992. 

[samran]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

I've heard of this many times, but when asking for details, I get mud. It's not like it applies to me, but the topics of what nationality does a child, born in Thailand, where both parents have a Thai PR, is still very elusive. Would you know if there is any merit in this? Last time I've brought up this topic I was told I better not ask those who got citizenship in this way how they got it, as it was likely under the table. But I can't see why this "rumour" of a way of getting citizenship this way would circulate for such a long time if there was nothing to it at all...

Not under the table. 

 

You've got to read section 7 and section 7(bis) together.

 

Section 7 says:

"The following persons shall acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) a person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether inside or outside the Kingdom of Thailand;

(2) a person born in the Kingdom of Thailand, except those under section 7 bis paragraph one.

 

Then, section 7 bis paragraph one basically goes onto define who it means by this, which is any person born to a parent who is in Thailand on temporary visa, or a parent who is here illegally. 

 

So who is left? Those born here to parents who are both here on permanent visas - ie. Thai PR.  Though it isn't stated explicitly, thats the implication. 

 

Section 17 alludes to them again (loss of Thai nationality) as there is a special section just for these children who can lose Thai nationality under certain circumstance.

 

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-dual-citizenship/

 

I personally know 4 people who have Thai citizenship from this method. All blond haired and blue eyed, born in the 1970s to British parents with PR. Back then, it must be noted, up until the early 1970s, basically every extension of stay effectively granted you PR, so these people got it as a matter of course. Their kids - most who are friends of mine, are living and working here in Bangkok, one who owns a large business many in Bangkok may have heard of. 

 

http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/document/ext810/810050_0001.pdf

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by samran

[samran]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I heard that children of PRs could become Thai citizens prior to 1992. 

Not quite - anyone born on Thai soil pre-1992 can now actively claim citizenship via changes to nationality act legislation ammended in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_nationality_law

 

Anyone who is born to two PR's still gets citizenship. This hasn't changed (though i am guessing there would only be a handful of married PRs in Thailand)

[samran]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

I would welcome having my understanding on this clarified. There appears to be no problem for Thai nationals from birth who also qualify for a second nationality, right? Those who apply for Thai nationality are told they must renounce their original nationality. Am I correct? What happens (in cases like this) if you promised to renounce your original nationality, but still retained dual nationality? Is it grounds to revoke your Thai nationality?

This might clarify things a bit.

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/renouncing-your-non-thai-citizenship

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, samran said:

This might clarify things a bit.

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/renouncing-your-non-thai-citizenship

Thank you. That is excellent explanation.

[rwill]

My wife flew back into Thailand from the US on 8 Aug.  She went to the Thai nationals lines but mistakenly handed them her US passport instead of Thai passport and the officer stamped her in with a 30 day visa exempt entry.  So last weekend we flew to Laos with her exiting with her US passport and using her Thai passport the rest of the way.  Upon reentry at Don Muang the officer was giving her some hassle for not having an exit stamp in her Thai passport.  She explained what happened but the officer still seemed confused.  Finally another officer(supervisor?) came over and said there was no problem with that.  So she stamped my wifes Thai passport but put a little handwritten note below it that she had left using a US passport.

[kennw]

16 hours ago, samran said:

Not under the table. 

 

You've got to read section 7 and section 7(bis) together.

 

Section 7 says:

"The following persons shall acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) a person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether inside or outside the Kingdom of Thailand;

(2) a person born in the Kingdom of Thailand, except those under section 7 bis paragraph one.

 

Then, section 7 bis paragraph one basically goes onto define who it means by this, which is any person born to a parent who is in Thailand on temporary visa, or a parent who is here illegally. 

 

So who is left? Those born here to parents who are both here on permanent visas - ie. Thai PR.  Though it isn't stated explicitly, thats the implication. 

 

Section 17 alludes to them again (loss of Thai nationality) as there is a special section just for these children who can lose Thai nationality under certain circumstance.

 

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-dual-citizenship/

 

I personally know 4 people who have Thai citizenship from this method. All blond haired and blue eyed, born in the 1970s to British parents with PR. Back then, it must be noted, up until the early 1970s, basically every extension of stay effectively granted you PR, so these people got it as a matter of course. Their kids - most who are friends of mine, are living and working here in Bangkok, one who owns a large business many in Bangkok may have heard of. 

 

http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/document/ext810/810050_0001.pdf

 

Does the change have any effect on the conscription law?

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, rwill said:

She explained what happened but the officer still seemed confused.  Finally another officer(supervisor?) came over and said there was no problem with that.  So she stamped my wifes Thai passport but put a little handwritten note below it that she had left using a US passport.

When I did my UK passport 'flip' on re-entry at DMK a few months back, the IO at the desk was similarly challenged, as the top-level passport biometrics probably indicated that I had used my other UK passport for well over a decade. Once handed over to a supervisor, it was an easy job for her to enter the new passport and immigration status change on HER workstation and be on my way. She only asked two questions: was I still living in Udon Thani and why I was using a different passport. She accepted my affirmative to place of residence and comment that the RetExt in the other passport had already expired and the passport was almost full already. No more immigration drama expected.

 

I guess the IO at the kiosks have administrative limits on their terminals, whereas their supervisors are the only ones with the higher admin level to input and approve passport changes?

[BritManToo]

18 hours ago, BritTim said:

I would welcome having my understanding on this clarified. There appears to be no problem for Thai nationals from birth who also qualify for a second nationality, right? Those who apply for Thai nationality are told they must renounce their original nationality. Am I correct? What happens (in cases like this) if you promised to renounce your original nationality, but still retained dual nationality? Is it grounds to revoke your Thai nationality?

You are not correct.

Those applying for Thai citizenship are asked if they 'would' renounce their previous nationality.

 

[rbkk]

5 hours ago, kennw said:

Does the change have any effect on the conscription law?

Same question....Does the foreign passport make you ineligible to fight for Thailand? Does the Thai ID Card trump a passport?

Edited September 1, 2023 by rbkk

[snowgard]

What is with the yearly visa extension & 90 days report for Thais with Dual Citizenship if they stay here with the foreign passport?

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, snowgard said:

What is with the yearly visa extension & 90 days report for Thais with Dual Citizenship if they stay here with the foreign passport?

If I understand the announcement correctly, the authorities ignore the fact that you entered with a foreign passport, and you can act exactly as if you had entered with a Thai passport.

[zzzzz]

ONE positve for a dual citizen on entering with ur foreign passport ( example Thaksin entering on his Montenegro passport) 
You have an embassy to assist you if things go bad

Edited September 2, 2023 by zzzzz

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, zzzzz said:

ONE positve for a dual citizen on entering with ur foreign passport ( example Thaksin entering on his Montenegro passport) 
You have an embassy to assist you if things go bad

In most cases, I do not think an embassy will consider your Thai immigration status when deciding whether to assist you, for instance, after a natural disaster. Depending on your second nationality, just possession of that country's passport will entitle you to consular assistance (which these days is often negligible).

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[OJAS]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:11 PM, george said:

A directive has been sent to all immigration officials stating that Thai nationals who enter Thailand on a foreign passport are no longer treated as foreign nationals for immigration purposes and that they can come and go as they please, without restrictions, on foreign passport so long as they also have proof of Thai nationality (for instance an ID card.

The $64,000 question, though, is how long will it take for the provisions of this directive to filter down to officers working on the coal face at BKK and DMK airports in particular.

 

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

The $64,000 question, though, is how long will it take for the provisions of this directive to filter down to officers working on the coal face at BKK and DMK airports in particular.

At the airports, there will be no problem. However, his announcement might well pass by officials at a remote office in Nakhon Nowhere. The bigger problem may be Thais who cannot easily prove their Thai nationality when challenged by the officials, especially if they are not fluent in Thai.

[Digitalbanana]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:32 AM, NanLaew said:

When I did my UK passport 'flip' on re-entry at DMK a few months back,

Would it not be easier to stick to ONE passport for Thailand and use the flip one for anything else as needed?

[Maestro]

13 hours ago, Digitalbanana said:

Would it not be easier to stick to ONE passport for Thailand and use the flip one for anything else as needed?

Yes.

[Highlandman]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:23 AM, rwill said:

My wife flew back into Thailand from the US on 8 Aug.  She went to the Thai nationals lines but mistakenly handed them her US passport instead of Thai passport and the officer stamped her in with a 30 day visa exempt entry.  So last weekend we flew to Laos with her exiting with her US passport and using her Thai passport the rest of the way.  Upon reentry at Don Muang the officer was giving her some hassle for not having an exit stamp in her Thai passport.  She explained what happened but the officer still seemed confused.  Finally another officer(supervisor?) came over and said there was no problem with that.  So she stamped my wifes Thai passport but put a little handwritten note below it that she had left using a US passport.

Huh? Why are they looking for exit stamps inside Thai passports when there's autogates now and have been for years now? 

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

Huh? Why are they looking for exit stamps inside Thai passports when there's autogates now and have been for years now? 

 

The issue, most likely, is that there was no record of her using her Thai passport to leave Thailand. The official might have wanted to confirm that she left Thailand via legal means.

[Highlandman]

35 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

The issue, most likely, is that there was no record of her using her Thai passport to leave Thailand. The official might have wanted to confirm that she left Thailand via legal means.

Understood. Obviously they saw that there was no electronic record of her having left on her Thai passport.

[BaanOz]

Just learned of this directive.

Wife's current ID has a different name and DOB to her Australian passport.

I understand it is easy to change Thai names so if we got her name changed on her ID to match her Australian passport any reason we couldn't make use of this directive?

Have read the directive and can't see anything about date of birth matching (it's one year wrong).

So I understand she can stay as long as she pleases here and just show Thai ID on departure? Sounds too good!

 

Edited April 4 by BaanOz