Thai taxi drivers seek incentives to shift to electric vehicles

[webfact]

 

Taxi drivers across Thailand, represented by the Thai Public Taxi Association, are petitioning the country’s transport minister for a financial incentive package to facilitate their switch to electric vehicles (EVs).

 

Association Chairman, Sadit Jaitiang, plans to bring up this key concern during a vital meeting slated for next Friday with Transport Minister Suriya Jungrungreangkit. The meeting is expected to address a range of issues impacting taxi drivers’ welfare.

 

Adopting EVs by the taxi industry would significantly lower carbon emissions and dust pollution in Thailand’s capital, according to Sadit. To incentivise this transition, the association is calling for tax reductions and subsidies, including a sizeable 300,000 baht (US$ 8,385) per unit subsidy for EVs.

 

Sadit expressed concern over the financial strain taxi drivers are under, following the significant loss of business during the Covid-19 pandemic. He believes the transition to EVs without the proposed incentives would pose an additional financial burden on drivers who are already struggling to recover, reported Bangkok Post.

 

by Mitch Connor

Picture courtesy of Matichon

 

Full story: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thai-taxi-drivers-seek-incentives-to-shift-to-electric-vehicles

 

-- The Thaiger 2023-09-09

 

- Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here.

 

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[JBChiangRai]

A strange article.

 

Most of the early MG EP's were bought as taxis.  A look around the second-hand market at early examples show enormous mileages on them.

 

There is still a 231,000 baht subsidy on them for all, including taxi drivers.

Edited September 9, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[positivevibes]

EVs is another scam.

 

The Green lobby never considers where the energy comes from to build these things or to power them. They also overlook the fact that lithium is mined by school children in Africa. Lithium for the batteries will go into world wide shortage from 2025.

 

This means the supply side will dry up and only the very wealthy will be able to afford private transport.

 

As for the rest of us plebs, I guess we won't need to go anywhere further than 15 mins from our units.

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, positivevibes said:

EVs is another scam.

 

The Green lobby never considers where the energy comes from to build these things or to power them. They also overlook the fact that lithium is mined by school children in Africa. Lithium for the batteries will go into world wide shortage from 2025.

 

This means the supply side will dry up and only the very wealthy will be able to afford private transport.

 

As for the rest of us plebs, I guess we won't need to go anywhere further than 15 mins from our units.

Oh dear me, more nonsense.  would someone else like to correct him?  I have more important things to do like watching my kettle boil.

[JoePai]

concern over the financial strain taxi drivers are under

 

If that is true then they can quit and find another better paying job

[positivevibes]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Oh dear me, more nonsense.  would someone else like to correct him?  I have more important things to do like watching my kettle boil.

Yes, similar to the nonsense told in 2020 when vaccine passes were predicted by the conspiracy realists. Same with CBDCs although I assume you think they won't happen either!

 

You can place your head back in the sand now.

 

 

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Oh dear me, more nonsense.  would someone else like to correct him?  I have more important things to do like watching my kettle boil.

You aren't correcting him because you know you'd lose the argument if you tried to. 

[kennw]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

A strange article.

 

Most of the early MG EP's were bought as taxis.  A look around the second-hand market at early examples show enormous mileages on them.

 

There is still a 231,000 baht subsidy on them for all, including taxi drivers.

Most of the taxis are not owned by the drivers they just rent by the day. Let the real owners meet the cost, they reap the profit.

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, positivevibes said:

EVs is another scam.

 

The Green lobby never considers where the energy comes from to build these things or to power them. They also overlook the fact that lithium is mined by school children in Africa. Lithium for the batteries will go into world wide shortage from 2025.

 

This means the supply side will dry up and only the very wealthy will be able to afford private transport.

 

As for the rest of us plebs, I guess we won't need to go anywhere further than 15 mins from our units.

Ok, challenge accepted.

 

Lithium is not mined in Africa by schoolchildren, Cobalt is. Cobalt is less favoured in batteries because LFP is becoming mainstream.

 

Please supply a link to substantiate your claim Lithium will go into worldwide shortage in 2025, quite simply, it won’t.

Edited September 9, 2023 by JBChiangRai
Spellong

[richard_smith237]

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Ok, challenge accepted.

 

Lithium is not mined in Africa by schoolchildren, Cobalt is. Cobalt is less favoured in batteries because LFP is becoming nainstream.

A typical EV contains about 14 kgs of Cobalt / 8 kgs of Lithium.

 

Tesla has started using Cobalt free batteries - Lithium Ion Phosphate (LiFePO4), but they're less efficient, with less range - the tech has improved enough for Tesla to use it as its a more environmentally friendly option, is safer with less risk of thermal runaway, and lasts longer.

 

BUT... it still contains Lithium and while the LiFePO4 batteries are considered the most environmentally friendly of batteries, mining for Lithium is still environmentally damaging, very energy intensive and polluting. 

 

Investigations found that mines in Africa (Democratic Republic of Congo) used children for the Cobalt mining, for Lithium-Ion Batteries - I think people have confused that with mining for Lithium. Also, thats not just EV's but the batteries in our computers and phones.

 

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Please supply a link to substantiate your claim Lithium will go into worldwide shortage in 2025, quite simply, it won’t.

There is concern that existing reserves of Lithium cannot meet demand, that concern also existed for oil.

There has been a recent discovery in Iran which may resolve that shortage...  

 

Could we end up as reliant on Iranian for Lithium as we are the Middle East for Oil ?

 

I am not convinced that our reliance on battery technology is any more environmentally friendly than our reliance on liquid hydrocarbons - I am of the understanding that developing carbon capture is a better step forwards and increasing our reliance on battery technology for EV's.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/lithium-producers-warn-global-supplies-may-not-meet-electric-vehicle-demand-2023-06-22/

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/29/a-worldwide-lithium-shortage-could-come-as-soon-as-2025.html#:~:text=A worldwide shortage for lithium,a Fitch Solutions research unit.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by richard_smith237

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A typical EV contains about 14 kgs of Cobalt / 8 kgs of Lithium.

 

Tesla has started using Cobalt free batteries - Lithium Ion Phosphate (LiFePO4), but they're less efficient, with less range - the tech has improved enough for Tesla to use it as its a more environmentally friendly option, is safer with less risk of thermal runaway, and lasts longer.

 

BUT... it still contains Lithium and while the LiFePO4 batteries are considered the most environmentally friendly of batteries, mining for Lithium is still environmentally damaging and are very energy intensive and polluting. 

 

AND....   investigations found that mines in Africa (Democratic Republic of Congo) used children for the Cobalt mining, for Lithium-Ion Batteries - I think people have confused that with mining for Lithium. Also, thats not just EV's but the batteries in our computers and phones.

 

There is concern that existing reserves of Lithium cannot meet demand, that concern also existed for oil.

There has been a recent discovery in Iran which may resolve that shortage...  

 

Could we end up as reliant on Iranian for Lithium as we are the Middle East for Oil ?

 

I am not convinced that our reliance on battery technology is any more environmentally friendly than our reliance on liquid hydrocarbons - I am of the understanding that developing carbon capture is a better step forwards and increasing our reliance on battery technology for EV's.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/lithium-producers-warn-global-supplies-may-not-meet-electric-vehicle-demand-2023-06-22/

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/29/a-worldwide-lithium-shortage-could-come-as-soon-as-2025.html#:~:text=A worldwide shortage for lithium,a Fitch Solutions research unit.

 

 

The shortage isn't so much the reserves of Lithium as the number of mines and battery manufacturing plants, which is fixable whereas reserves of Lithium isn't.

 

Lithium mining is set to almost double over the next 2 years, I don't see an issue in that time period, by 2030 possibly.  But we are resourceful, we are already seeing one manufacturer offer Sodium ion batteries and we may see more or some new technology altogether. And I think we can bring Lithium battery mining/assembly plants online much faster than 10 years.  

 

LFP batteries are far more suited to Thailand than NMC (i.e.with Cobalt), this trend has included Tesla, MG, GWM, Volvo, BYD.  some of these manufacturers use NMC in their performance or long range models but all offer LFP in their base models now.  NMC is now the exception rather than the rule.

 

A Lithium shortage (IF it happens) is not necessarily a bad thing.  I can see a time coming when mainstream models are offered with a choice of battery chemistry depending on range and/or performance requirements and I think we will see a lot more Sodium batteries.  

 

A shortage of Lithium could also polarise the market into BEV's and H2 cars.  With H2 becoming the poor man's option because shortage of BEV's will mean the price of them goes up.  BEV's will be a lot cheaper to run but possibly expensive to buy, whereas H2 cars will be the opposite.  H2 has to be more expensive to run because it's going to be generated by electricity and is only 15%-20% efficient (25% loss in producing H2, x% loss in compressing it, y% loss in transporting it, 70-80% loss as heat in exploding it, assuming it's an ICE car rather than a fuel cell).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, kennw said:

Most of the taxis are not owned by the drivers they just rent by the day. Let the real owners meet the cost, they reap the profit.

In which case the OP article itself is nonsense.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Adopting EVs by the taxi industry would significantly lower carbon emissions and dust pollution in Thailand’s capital, according to Sadit. To incentivise this transition, the association is calling for tax reductions and subsidies, including a sizeable 300,000 baht (US$ 8,385) per unit subsidy for EVs.

Plus a basket of chicken delight.

[kevc]

And where are 100,000 plus taxis in Bangkok going to charge their EVs.

[retarius]

How about keeping your taxi business? That's what it will come to and you will end up paying much more per km to use it when they hike up the price of electricity to compensate for the lost revenue from gasoline and diesel sales.

[digger70]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Ok, challenge accepted.

 

Lithium is not mined in Africa by schoolchildren, Cobalt is. Cobalt is less favoured in batteries because LFP is becoming mainstream.

 

Please supply a link to substantiate your claim Lithium will go into worldwide shortage in 2025, quite simply, it won’t.

Is lithium mining in Africa child labor?

Congo is also Africa's top producer of copper, and lithium was recently found there — also key components of EV batteries. The extraction of the minerals has been linked to child and exploitative labor, environmental abuses and safety risks.3 July 2023

Search for: What happens if the world runs out of lithium?

 

How long will our lithium supply last?

A worldwide shortage for lithium could be on its way as demand for the metal ramps up. “Global lithium supply is expected to enter a deficit relative to demand by 2025,” said BMI, a Fitch Solutions research unit.29 Aug 2023

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Is lithium mining in Africa child labor?

Congo is also Africa's top producer of copper, and lithium was recently found there — also key components of EV batteries. The extraction of the minerals has been linked to child and exploitative labor, environmental abuses and safety risks.3 July 2023

Search for: What happens if the world runs out of lithium?

 

How long will our lithium supply last?

A worldwide shortage for lithium could be on its way as demand for the metal ramps up. “Global lithium supply is expected to enter a deficit relative to demand by 2025,” said BMI, a Fitch Solutions research unit.29 Aug 2023

As I said, Cobalt is where you will find the child labour.

 

Reuters say 2030 for the shortage of Lithium, IF there is a shortage, I am inclined to lean towards it being nearer 2030 than 2025.

[digger70]

Of course they will , They will be looking for a Handout from the Government .

They are never happy, They Always want More. That's just Greed.

They won't use the meters, they want to make their own Fees for a trip , they want extra for Luggage, They are always Gauging the Public , Now they're complaining about Grab, Some competition in their Rip off scheme  they don't like that.

Next they will complain that they have to register their weapons .and pay for a License to carry them.

[mikebell]

On 9/9/2023 at 9:38 AM, webfact said:

a financial incentive package to facilitate their switch to electric vehicles

Tell them the battery does not have enough charge to run the car AND the meter.

[positivevibes]

Fake pandemics and global warming nonsense, two cheeks of the same butt.

[Jelli]

NGV is perfect for taxis. Cheap retrofit.

 

Just brainwashing.

 

I can't imagine you'd get six let alone twelve years out of any ev. Especially those priced for issarn taxi driver budgets.

[VocalNeal]

23 hours ago, kennw said:

Most of the taxis are not owned by the drivers they just rent by the day. Let the real owners meet the cost, they reap the profit.

...and most do 2 shifts. It is bad enough queuing for NGV which takes longer to refill than LPG. When are the e-taxis going to get recharged? 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 9/9/2023 at 12:33 PM, JBChiangRai said:

Ok, challenge accepted.

 

Lithium is not mined in Africa by schoolchildren, Cobalt is. Cobalt is less favoured in batteries because LFP is becoming mainstream.

 

Please supply a link to substantiate your claim Lithium will go into worldwide shortage in 2025, quite simply, it won’t.

I hope she will avoid the Chinese Cobalt mine.