Proof of life for American Social Security

[Felton Jarvis]

Ostensibly, Americans who draw Social Security and live overseas are supposed to receive a letter from the Social Security Administration every year asking them to confirm that they are still alive. I have lived in Thailand for eight years and have never received one of these letters. Does the fact that my Social Security check is Direct Deposited in my American bank, exempt me from this requirement?  I am concerned because several expats have said that my SS can be cut off if there is no response to the questionaire they send out. Any expats know anything about this subject?

[metisdead]

Moving to the US & Canada Topics and Events forum. 

[KhunLA]

Depends what address you have given SS.  If a USA address, they wouldn't know where you live.  And simply assume you are in the USA.

[EVENKEEL]

 There will be some along shortly to call it fraud

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Ostensibly, Americans who draw Social Security and live overseas are supposed to receive a letter from the Social Security Administration every year asking them to confirm that they are still alive. I have lived in Thailand for eight years and have never received one of these letters. Does the fact that my Social Security check is Direct Deposited in my American bank, exempt me from this requirement?  I am concerned because several expats have said that my SS can be cut off if there is no response to the questionaire they send out. Any expats know anything about this subject?

I expect you have a U.S. address on file with the SSA.   If you have a U.S. address on file with SSA you will not receive a proof of life form until possibly you reach the age of 90.   If you have your Thailand address on file with SSA then you will receive the proof of life form every 1 or 2 years.   

[connda]

2 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Does the fact that my Social Security check is Direct Deposited in my American bank, exempt me from this requirement? 

Yep!

[Thailand J]

6 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Does the fact that my Social Security check is Direct Deposited in my American bank, exempt me from this requirement?

no.

I still get the letter while my SS monthly benefit is deposited in a NY bank.

I have a Thai address filed with the IRS on 1040 tax return and the same Thai address was given to SS when I applied for benefits.

[Felton Jarvis]

5 hours ago, Thailand J said:

no.

I still get the letter while my SS monthly benefit is deposited in a NY bank.

I have a Thai address filed with the IRS on 1040 tax return and the same Thai address was given to SS when I applied for benefits.

I started Social Security before I moved to Thailand. I still receive mail at an address in Alabama, but my Thai address is on file. I have been here eight years and never a letter from Social Security. I would rather not deal with anything that could interrupt my SS payments. That would be a nightmare.

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Felton Jarvis

[flexomike]

12 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Ostensibly, Americans who draw Social Security and live overseas are supposed to receive a letter from the Social Security Administration every year asking them to confirm that they are still alive. I have lived in Thailand for eight years and have never received one of these letters. Does the fact that my Social Security check is Direct Deposited in my American bank, exempt me from this requirement?  I am concerned because several expats have said that my SS can be cut off if there is no response to the questionaire they send out. Any expats know anything about this subject?

You will only get the letter if you have a registered address in a foreign country 

[Jingthing]

In many countries the letter is every two years not every year.

 

Yes if you tell them you live in the US no letters.

[Jingthing]

13 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

 There will be some along shortly to call it fraud

Under their rules you're supposed to inform them of all residence address changes.

So it's not exactly being honest, is it?

People can make their own decisions but perhaps if more expats were honest about being expats showing our actual larger numbers we'd have some more clout in the  US political system.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Jingthing

[VocalNeal]

^ If one is an expat then by definition they live in a country foreign to them. Having chosen not to live in their country of origin why would they still be interested in and/or try to influence the politics there.???? Better to simply enjoy the palm trees and sunshine.

[EVENKEEL]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Under their rules you're supposed to inform them of all residence address changes.

So it's not exactly being honest, is it?

People can make their own decisions but perhaps if more expats were honest about being expats showing our actual larger numbers we'd have some more clout in the  US political system.

Ta - Daa  ????

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ If one is an expat then by definition they live in a country foreign to them. Having chosen not to live in their country of origin why would they still be interested in and/or try to influence the politics there.???? Better to simply enjoy the palm trees and sunshine.

Not that I ever voted, but what does happen there (birth country), does affect the exchange rate & COLA

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ If one is an expat then by definition they live in a country foreign to them. Having chosen not to live in their country of origin why would they still be interested in and/or try to influence the politics there.???? Better to simply enjoy the palm trees and sunshine.

You don't get it.

We're subject to US laws regardless.

Taxation

FBAR

FATCA

Reporting if SS

Policies if repatriation

Laws financial institutions use as an excuse to close expat accounts

Medicare abroad someday at least in Mexico?

 

Etc etc

 

[KhunLA]

????

Edited September 10, 2023 by KhunLA

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I started Social Security before I moved to Thailand. I still receive mail at an address in Alabama, but my Thai address is on file. I have been here eight years and never a letter from Social Security. I would rather not deal with anything that could interrupt my SS payments. That would be a nightmare.

 

You can have residential (physical ) and mailing addresses on-file with the SSA....that is, two addresses on-file.

 

The residential address is where you physically live and determines whether/how often you get a proof of life form or not.   The mailing address is purely for receiving mail and does not affect when/how often you get the proof of life form. 

 

So, I expect if you would check with SSA that they really have your U.S. address on-file as your residential address....and since it's a U.S. address you are not getting a proof of life form......but once you turn 90 you are suppose to get the form regardless of where you live.  Basically, they have your residential and mailing address as being the same and it a U.S. address. 

 

Earlier this week I helped a person apply online for their SS pension.  At the beginning of the process they ask for your residential and mailing addresses.   They first ask for your mailing address....if you select you do not reside at that mailing address then you are asked to enter your residential address also....if you say you do reside at your mailing address then that goes on-file as your residential address.  Now the person I was helping only has one address which is his residential address, therefore, it's also his mailing address

 

 

And when the wife and I applied for our SS pension a half dozen or so years ago via telephone interview with the Manila FBU SSA Office we were asked for both our residential and mailing address.   Although the mailing address was a U.S. address at the time we still got the once a year proof of life form since our residential address was a Thailand address.   Later on when we stopped using that U.S. address mailing we notified Manila of our new mailing address which is our Thailand address that is now both our residential and mailing addresses.

 

Thailand is on the SSA list of many countries that receive a proof of life form annually....other foreign countries are on a biennially schedule.

 

Summary: I expect if you check with SSA they really have your U.S. mailing address also on-file as your residential address.  Your residential address on-file with the SSA  determines if/how often you get a proof of life form.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Ta - Daa  ????

Good fun for you but please tell me what I  said that was untrue.

[EVENKEEL]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Good fun for you but please tell me what I  said that was untrue.

I'm all about a good laugh. But seriously, I don't believe as a free American I need to explain myself. I spent over 20 yrs working overseas and it wasn't an issue, I paid all my US taxes same as if I lived there. Now the only thing which has changed is I no longer work, life goes on as before.

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I started Social Security before I moved to Thailand. I still receive mail at an address in Alabama, but my Thai address is on file. I have been here eight years and never a letter from Social Security. I would rather not deal with anything that could interrupt my SS payments. That would be a nightmare.

 

As long as you don't have bank accounts in TH with $10k, then you have no worries.  And that would be an IRS issue, not SS, as they still wouldn't care.

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm all about a good laugh. But seriously, I don't believe as a free American I need to explain myself. I spent over 20 yrs working overseas and it wasn't an issue, I paid all my US taxes same as if I lived there. Now the only thing which has changed is I no longer work, life goes on as before.

Huh?!?

I said it was a personal decision.

 

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

As long as you don't have bank accounts in TH with $10k, then you have no worries.  And that would be an IRS issue, not SS, as they still wouldn't care.

Not IRS.

Treasury.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

As long as you don't have bank accounts in TH with $10k, then you have no worries.  And that would be an IRS issue, not SS, as they still wouldn't care.

not necessary to have 10K dollars in the bank - that 10K usd is for a yearly aggregate of at least 10K.

[KhunLA]

52 minutes ago, Presnock said:

not necessary to have 10K dollars in the bank - that 10K usd is for a yearly aggregate of at least 10K.

Wrong, that is for a total 'balance' amount of $10k in accounts.  Not if 10k or more has gone through the accounts, only if balance of accounts hit the 10k mark.

 

My 800+k DD for ret. visa does  not have to be reported.  Unless I leave it in there to hit that 10k mark, which I don't and make a withdrawal every 3rd or 4th month.

 

Only a few times have I needed to file FBAR, when using the lump sum amount for visa.

Edited September 10, 2023 by KhunLA

[Trippy]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Wrong, that is for a total 'balance' amount of $10k in accounts.  Not if 10k or more has gone through the accounts, only if balance of accounts hit the 10k mark.

 

My 800+k DD for ret. visa does  not have to be reported.  Unless I leave it in there to hit that 10k mark, which I don't and make a withdrawal every 3rd or 4th month.

 

Only a few times have I needed to file FBAR, when using the lump sum amount for visa.

800k baht is far above the 10,000usd reporting mark. 

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Trippy said:

800k baht is far above the 10,000usd reporting mark. 

If lump sum ... yes, or 1 or more accounts with a total balance of 10k at any 1 time.   But not 65-80k a month being deposited, as long as balance stays below 10k during the year.

[Trippy]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If lump sum ... yes, or 1 or more accounts with a total balance of 10k at any 1 time.   But not 65-80k a month being deposited, as long as balance stays below 10k during the year.

Ahh ok, I misread his post thinking it was lump sum, thanks for the clarification.

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, Trippy said:

Ahh ok, I misread his post thinking it was lump sum, thanks for the clarification.

OP's DD goes in a USA bank anyway.  

[Felton Jarvis]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:42 PM, Trippy said:

800k baht is far above the 10,000usd reporting mark. 

I file FBAR every year regardless. Better to be safe than go to prison. The FATCA rules are insane

but Americans have allowed this to happen.  IRS MUST collect enough funds to support the government. Apparently, they decided that the best way to do this was to make sure no money is being “hidden” in bank accounts anywhere on earth. A stunning example of government overreach.

[Thailand J]

 

On 9/10/2023 at 2:02 PM, Trippy said:

Ahh ok, I misread his post thinking it was lump sum, thanks for the clarification.

You did not misread, the post clearly said 800k.

I would prefer to put 800K in the bank and file FBAR instead of managing 65k per month every month and watch the balance just to avoid FBAR reporting.

It only takes a few minutes to file FBAR online. Unless you have you  reasons to avoid reporting.