Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[paddypower]

19 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Well if non filing is a crime then well over half the entire Thai population need to be put in Jail.....

that is illogical, Captain Kirk. do you drive like some Thais do?

[paddypower]

My Canadian bank sent me a form to complete including info about my TIN. Now that is something I'll have to put down to short term memory loss. I'm wondering, do US citizens get asked for the same info. I know that there's a form which you have to complete for investment brokers here, which asks you  to confirm that you are not a US citizen. Just curious.

[Dogmatix]

3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Maybe indicate that, as per several people reports, getting a TIN and being able to file a tax return is not 100% granted and at local TRD discretion.

 

Anyone who wants a TIN and is refused one face to face should ask the official to put that in writing or film him or her saying that.

[Dogmatix]

For interest my company was audited by the RD going back four years, despite having filed all tax returns on time.  They are restricted to going back 2 years for companies and individuals who have filed proper tax returns but that can be extended, if they think the taxpayer might have intentionally evaded tax.  In my case it appeared they gave themselves the right to do this without any ceremony or explanation and trying to refuse them would only make them more determined to dig.  The RC doesn't say anything about how far they can go back for individuals or entities that don't file tax returns,  So the statute of limitations in the Civil & Commercial Code of 10 years applies in this case.  But, if you didn't file because you had no taxable income over the threshold after deductions, they are not going to find much in a 10 year audit, even if you had been tax resident that long.  The worst case would be 2,000 baht fines for those years and I think the requirement to file tax without having taxable income has been in place for less than 10 years which would mean you could only be fined for the years after it was introduced.  With the large backlogs the inspectors have and the low revenue potential of such an audit, you can decide for yourselves how likely it might be.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

It looks as though the landscape is changing from, "no need to file because there's no penalty", to, there is a fine for not filing plus not doing so exposes you to back audits for the past decade. 

 

21 hours ago, freeworld said:

The following from PWC Thailand tax booklet for personal tax.

 

"Penalties and surcharge
A taxpayer who is assessed additional tax by an assessment officer
on the grounds that an inaccurate return was filed, or who failed to
file a return, is subject to a penalty. The rate of penalty is 100% for an
inaccurate return and 200% for failure to file a return. Penalties may
be reduced by 50% if the taxpayer submits a request in writing and
the assessment officer is of the opinion that the taxpayer did not
intend to evade tax and cooperated with the officer during the tax
audit.

Any person who fails to pay or remit tax within the specified time is
liable to pay a surcharge of 1.5% per month, or fraction thereof, of the
amount of tax to be paid or remitted subject to a maximum equal to
the amount of tax to be paid or remitted.

 

Tax investigation and assessment
The Revenue Department is empowered to demand documents and
records for inspection for a period of two years. The period will be
extended to five years if it is found, or there is a reason to believe,
that there was tax evasion, or where a tax audit is conducted for the
purpose of paying a tax refund.
Nevertheless, under the Civil and Commercial Code, the Revenue
Department can assess tax for up to ten years."

 

I think it is this section from the Civil and Commercial Code

Section 448. Statute of Limitations

The claim for damages arising from wrongful act is barred by prescription after one year from the day when the wrongful act and the person bound to make compensation became known to the injured person, or ten years from the day when the wrongful act was committed.

However if the damages are claimed on account of an act punishable under the criminal law for which a longer prescription is provided such longer prescription shall apply.

 

Prescription

Section 193/31. Taxes 10 Years

The period of prescription for claims of the Government for taxes and rates is ten years. As to other claims of the Government relating to obligations, the provisions of this title shall apply.

 

For any Expat thinking that this means all Expats must all lodge a tax return if you bring more than 120K into Thailand, I wish to point out that this is a statement is on a website by a private company who make money doing tax returns - and it does not quote where in the Revenue Code or Tax Lawa it draws its information from. It is not fact and it is not conclusive - it is IMO marketing.

 

There is an opinion by some AN members that the Thai tax system works like it does in the West - it does not. One of those many differeneces is that the rules are whatever the TRD decides and/or interprets on any given day. The rules are NOT what is written down in the 'code' - like it is in the West where every rule and interpretation is strictly enfocrced and published and detailed.  In Thailand it is whatever the TRD decides it means and whatever they (and the Govt) decides to do.  That 20+ million Thais do not lodge tax returns is just one of many many examples. Here is another - in the 'rules' it states that every foreigner leaving Thailand must obtain a tax clearance certificate (we obviosuly do not). 

Tax Clearance Certificate | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

How tax things work in Thailand is how the TRD and Govt decide they are to work. Things here are not like in the West where laws and rules are detailed, clear and published, and where the Western Govt organisations must adhere to those rules.  As detailed in that meeting with TRD, they have no idea about DTAs and other issues regarding overseas earnings and money.

Thai government to tax all income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Page 257 - Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments - Thailand News, Travel & Forum - ASEAN NOW

 

 

IMO the best approach for retired/married Expats is to stay away from TRD until this is all sorted out and implemented for a while - 2 to 3 years?

This view I see of Expats thinking they should get a TIN and lodge a tax return because of some adherence to the Revenue Code, when the TRD itself ignores its own code whenever it suits, is IMO absolute lunacy.  You might as well walk into the local police office and confess to speeding on your bike without a helmet, while pleading not to be fined. Having said that, it is true that tax agencies have very powerful and arbitrary powers, especially Thailand, so if you are not earning income (other than Pension and maybe small istuff nterest etc) then keep all your records. If you are ever asked why you no lodge a tax return you can use that (and a tax lawyer) to justify why you did not lodge a tax return.  I have always found that the bigger the bureacracy, the more the following rule is to be applied. Rule: It is better to ask forgiveness than permission. 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

17 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I think many expats who earn less that the taxable amount will be very daunted by filing tax returns and won't bother and I can't blame them.  I doubt that they will be pursued by the RD and fined.  In future, however, it is possible that Immigration will link up the RD and demand tax returns for visa renewal but there has been no talk of that yet.

That is the one reason why Expats would have to definitely file a tax return. Hopefully, that change will not take place for 2-3 years, and judging how slowly things change in Thailand I would say that is a likely timeframe.  One thing I do know, Immigration will provide all the details and instructions to all their Officers on such a change - whether they will listen or imnplement them correctly is another matter altogether.  

 

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I got my Thai tax ID in CM at the revenue office in Nong Hoi in '21.  I am on retirement extensions so I don't have a work permit.

 

I tried to open an SCB high interest savings account and the bank staff got hung up while opening the account.  I asked them "if I get a tax ID can you open the account?".  They said yes.  The next day I took a residence certificate (I think I used an expired one!), a Bangkok bank passbook and my passport to TRD and got my tax ID in under 30 minutes.  The staff didn't raise any issue at all.

glad you did, but you are in CM... we are in Thailand, unfortunately here each province has its own standards

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Anyone who wants a TIN and is refused one face to face should ask the official to put that in writing or film him or her saying that.

Challenging Thai authority is hit-and-miss, either you get a positive outcome or get into deeper trouble.

Better deal with another officer/come back another day/try another TRD office.

If outcome is still negative the good news is you don't have to pay tax.

[Mike Lister]

One very unusual and unexpected benefit of filing a tax return is that UOB was willing to accept a copy of mine, as my proof of address, whilst opening a new account, which negated the need to obtain a residency cert. from Immi. Mind you, these were the same people who accepted my Cumbria bus pass as proof of my UK ID!

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

For any Expat thinking that this means all Expats must all lodge a tax return if you bring more than 120K into Thailand, I wish to point out that this is a statement is on a website by a private company who make money doing tax returns - and it does not quote where in the Revenue Code or Tax Lawa it draws its information from. It is not fact and it is not conclusive - it is IMO marketing.

 

There is an opinion by some AN members that the Thai tax system works like it does in the West - it does not. One of those many differeneces is that the rules are whatever the TRD decides and/or interprets on any given day. The rules are NOT what is written down in the 'code' - like it is in the West where every rule and interpretation is strictly enfocrced and published and detailed.  In Thailand it is whatever the TRD decides it means and whatever they (and the Govt) decides to do.  That 20+ million Thais do not lodge tax returns is just one of many many examples. Here is another - in the 'rules' it states that every foreigner leaving Thailand must obtain a tax clearance certificate (we obviosuly do not). 

Tax Clearance Certificate | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

How tax things work in Thailand is how the TRD and Govt decide they are to work. Things here are not like in the West where laws and rules are detailed, clear and published, and where the Western Govt organisations must adhere to those rules.  As detailed in that meeting with TRD, they have no idea about DTAs and other issues regarding overseas earnings and money.

Thai government to tax all income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Page 257 - Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments - Thailand News, Travel & Forum - ASEAN NOW

 

 

IMO the best approach for retired/married Expats is to stay away from TRD until this is all sorted out and implemented for a while - 2 to 3 years?

This view I see of Expats thinking they should get a TIN and lodge a tax return because of some adherence to the Revenue Code, when the TRD itself ignores its own code whenever it suits, is IMO absolute lunacy.  You might as well walk into the local police office and confess to speeding on your bike without a helmet, while pleading not to be fined. Having said that, it is true that tax agencies have very powerful and arbitrary powers, especially Thailand, so if you are not earning income (other than Pension and maybe small istuff nterest etc) then keep all your records. If you are ever asked why you no lodge a tax return you can use that (and a tax lawyer) to justify why you did not lodge a tax return.  I have always found that the bigger the bureacracy, the more the following rule is to be applied. Rule: It is better to ask forgiveness than permission. 

 

 

Great post......Some guys here just cant seem to get that many laws and rules and codes are very flexible here depending on which way the wind is blowing and the mood of the person interpreting the rules on that day....

 

Unlike in the West where Tax rules are carved in stone.. 

Edited April 25 by redwood1

[Mike Lister]

A new para for the Introduction of the document, for comment if desired:

 

4) This document looks at the tax laws and related rules that exist but does not attempt to understand the degree to which they are always uniformly followed or enforced. Often in Thailand, laws are enacted, utilised, but then become dormant for long periods before being brought back into service again, the TM30 rule is one such example. It is virtually impossible for us to understand the degree to which any particular tax rule is enforced uniformly, nationwide, or when a particular law might next be activated once again. For example, we are aware that penalties exist for not filing a tax return where the income threshold has been exceeded but no tax is due. We think it is unlikely that this rule is enforced and that many people if any are fined but we cannot be certain. Readers must therefore assess their own willingness to accept the risk of not following a particular seemingly dormant or unenforced rule, that might suddenly one day be fully utilised once again, without notice.

[4myr]

Here an update of my discovery of what the new tax rules should be.

 

I consulted TRD call center [1161 or 1111], Dutch tax experts and a new expat tax filing service company, with an excellent Q&A database.

 

Case: In 2024 I am tax resident, and I earn 2M baht.

In 2025, I am not tax resident, and I transfer the 2M baht, which was earned in 2024.

 

Q1 - do I need to file tax for 2025?

Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no | Prachuap office - no

 

Q2 - do I need to pay tax for 2025? 

Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no | Prachuap office - no

 

CC 1161 answers in accordance to FAQ question #1. What matters is whether the income was earned in a year that you were tax resident. If yes, then you need to file tax, even though you were not tax resident in the year you transferred the income.

 

Double tax agreement [DTA] Netherlands.

 

There are exemptions listed in clause 23.5, for which these income types are not taxable in Thailand. For example, capital gains on property in NL [14.1]. And director fees [16.2]

 

Answer CC 1161: cannot answer. I am not a lawyer. 

Answer tax office: not exempted, only tax credit can be applied.

Answer DTA expert: exempted, however [also stated in DTA 23.5], if you transfer other income sources in the same tax year that you transfer the exempted income [e.g. profit of the property], these other income sources will be put in a higher tax bracket. The tax bracket is calculated as if the profit is not being exempted. Bottom line - only transfer the profit then you don't need to pay tax

 

The DTA also states/limits the tax credits that are allowed. For the NL DTA these are clauses 23.6 and 23.7.

 

Answer tax office: payroll tax paid in NL, can be used as tax credit

Answer DTA expert: Payroll tax is not stated in 23.6 or 23.7, so it cannot be used as tax credit

 

 

Edited April 25 by 4myr

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, 4myr said:

Here an update of my discovery of what the new tax rules should be.

 

I consulted TRD call center [1161 or 1111], Dutch tax experts and a new expat tax filing service company, with an excellent Q&A database.

 

Case: In 2024 I am tax resident, and I earn 2M baht.

In 2025, I am not tax resident, and I transfer the 2M baht, which was earned in 2024.

 

Q1 - do I need to file tax for 2025? Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no

Q2 - do I need to pay tax for 2025? Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no

 

CC 1161 answers in accordance to FAQ question #1. What matters is whether the income was earned in a year that you were tax resident. If yes, then you need to file tax, even though you were not tax resident in the year you transferred the income.

 

Double tax agreement [DTA] Netherlands.

 

There are exemptions listed in clause 23.5, for which these income types are not taxable in Thailand. For example, capital gains on property in NL [14.1]. And director fees [16.2]

 

Answer CC 1161: cannot answer. I am not a lawyer. 

Answer tax office: not exempted, only tax credit can be applied.

Answer DTA expert: exempted, however [also stated in DTA 23.5], if you transfer other income sources in the same tax year that you transfer the exempted income [e.g. profit of the property], these other income sources will be put in a higher tax bracket. The tax bracket is calculated as if the profit is not being exempted. Bottom line - only transfer the profit then you don't need to pay tax

 

The DTA also states/limits the tax credits that are allowed. For the NL DTA these are clauses 23.6 and 23.7.

 

Answer tax office: payroll tax paid in NL, can be used as tax credit

Answer DTA expert: Payroll tax is not stated in 23.6 or 23.7, so it cannot be used as tax credit

 

 

I'm with the CC on that first point in bold/underlined. The issue of whether or not you are Thai tax resident when the funds were earned is equally as important as your tax residency status when the funds were remitted, I think. Not being tax resident when the funds were remitted is not the end of the game and I never believed it was.  This remains WIP

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

A new para for the Introduction of the document, for comment if desired:

Nice. Tamps down the fear mongering that the uninitiated newbie might experience. Maybe you could equally mitigate the chance of this ever happening:

Quote

33) Failure to file a tax return where the income threshold has been exceeded but no tax is due, can result in a fine of THB 2,000.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm with the CC on that first point in bold/underlined. The issue of whether or not you are Thai tax resident when the funds were earned is equally as important as your tax residency status when the funds were remitted, I think. Not being tax resident when the funds were remitted is not the end of the game and I never believed it was.  This remains WIP

Cannot disagree with that - it is clearly a WIP issue as is IMO many things within the guide.  But until TRD provide a clarification on this specific matter (and many others), then IMO everyone should take the aproach that minimises their tax obligations.  As shown by the recent post where severeal TRD sources were asked questions and gave different answers, TRD do not have any certainty arounbd the details and complications of taxing incoming remittances.  Eg. If you were to ask Somchai in your local TRD 'is this taxable?' then IMO he is likely to say Yes - even though under the strict interpretation of the rules it might not be taxable.   

 

Taxation advice is good when it is advising how to avoid, minimise or reduce taxation through legal means.  The standard rule of law regarding taxation rules and regulations in western countries, is that many scenarios over many deacdes are examined and ruled upon and published, and that process is ongoing, extremely rigorous and controlled.  This is not the case in Thailand - this is a country where it is always best to 'go with the flow' rather than try to self-determine and rigidly adhere to the rules and regulations that TRD themselves are inconsitent and uncertain.  IMO any decision on whether an action should be undertaken to avoid taxation, should be done so on the basis that if it has not been specifically excluded by a TRD directive or clarification, then it is tax avoidance (legal) and it is not tax evasion (illegal).

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

Case: In 2024 I am tax resident, and I earn 2M baht.

In 2025, I am not tax resident, and I transfer the 2M baht, which was earned in 2024.

 

Q1 - do I need to file tax for 2025?

Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no | Prachuap office - no

So, CC 1161 said yes, but CC 1111 said no. Also, the expat filing service said no, and Prachuap said no.

 

So, that really clears that issue up, NOT.

 

[Sigmund]

I asked 2 specialists and got 4 different versions !!!!

 

But problem solved, will not stay more then 179,5 days !!!

 

To bad but guess Vietnam will get my money on the remaining period.

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

I asked 2 specialists and got 4 different versions !!!!

 

But problem solved, will not stay more then 179,5 days !!!

 

To bad but guess Vietnam will get my money on the remaining period.

179 days + 5 seconds = 180 days....you're tax resident.

[4myr]

2 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

So, CC 1161 said yes, but CC 1111 said no. Also, the expat filing service said no, and Prachuap said no.

 

So, that really clears that issue up, NOT.

 

because CC 1161 is in line with a written FAQ question 1 from TRD [only in Thai language available], I have to agree reluctantly with CC 1161.

 

On the other hand the owner of the expat tax filing service company has very good contact with TRD people in Bangkok. I can't understand why he is wrong in this:

 

"If you are in Thailand for under 180 days per calendar year, you are a non-tax resident and you do not have to file a Thai tax return for foreign-sourced income. If you have income within Thailand, you may need to still file a return."

Above is in line with  https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html - "A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.” However this statement is more generic than the specific FAQ question 1 case.

[stat]

6 hours ago, 4myr said:

Here an update of my discovery of what the new tax rules should be.

 

I consulted TRD call center [1161 or 1111], Dutch tax experts and a new expat tax filing service company, with an excellent Q&A database.

 

Case: In 2024 I am tax resident, and I earn 2M baht.

In 2025, I am not tax resident, and I transfer the 2M baht, which was earned in 2024.

 

Q1 - do I need to file tax for 2025?

Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no | Prachuap office - no

 

Q2 - do I need to pay tax for 2025? 

Answers: CC 1161 - yes | CC 1111 - no | expat filing service - no | Prachuap office - no

 

CC 1161 answers in accordance to FAQ question #1. What matters is whether the income was earned in a year that you were tax resident. If yes, then you need to file tax, even though you were not tax resident in the year you transferred the income.

 

Double tax agreement [DTA] Netherlands.

 

There are exemptions listed in clause 23.5, for which these income types are not taxable in Thailand. For example, capital gains on property in NL [14.1]. And director fees [16.2]

 

Answer CC 1161: cannot answer. I am not a lawyer. 

Answer tax office: not exempted, only tax credit can be applied.

Answer DTA expert: exempted, however [also stated in DTA 23.5], if you transfer other income sources in the same tax year that you transfer the exempted income [e.g. profit of the property], these other income sources will be put in a higher tax bracket. The tax bracket is calculated as if the profit is not being exempted. Bottom line - only transfer the profit then you don't need to pay tax

 

The DTA also states/limits the tax credits that are allowed. For the NL DTA these are clauses 23.6 and 23.7.

 

Answer tax office: payroll tax paid in NL, can be used as tax credit

Answer DTA expert: Payroll tax is not stated in 23.6 or 23.7, so it cannot be used as tax credit

 

 

That is what I expected: Ask 2 lawyers get 3 different answers. This will be a whole new level <deleted>show if TRD decides to follow through (big if but only my gut feeling). It shows one thing. be prepared for the worst and have several layers of insulation if push comes to shove. Everything we discuss here can only be used to have as many layers of insulation as possible (Gifts, creditcard usage, remittances of money earned before 2024 etc)- Godspeed to all of us!

Edited April 25 by stat

[Mike Lister]

I have returned a previous point to the list of unknowns because there are too many mixed messages regarding what is the correct answer:

 

P) - Returned to the list: The issue of whether income earned in a year when tax resident but remitted to Thailand in a year when not tax resident………….is it taxable? Many contradictory reports on this, even from within TRD and tax consultants themselves.

[PJ71]

10 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

179 days + 5 seconds = 180 days....you're tax resident.

Where does the 180 days come from, are you sure it's not 1/2 a calander year, ie 182.5 days?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Where does the 180 days come from, are you sure it's not 1/2 a calander year, ie 182.5 days?

Yes I'm certain, it comes from the TRD. NO country in the world uses 182.5 days to determine tax residency although some do use 183!

[PJ71]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes I'm certain, it comes from the TRD. NO country in the world uses 182.5 days to determine tax residency although some do use 183!

Yes, i understand that.

 

I know guys that do the '90 day rule' to avoid UK tax and every day counts, so it's 180 days here, that's confirmed, right?

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Yes, i understand that.

 

I know guys that do the '90 day rule' to avoid UK tax and every day counts, so it's 180 days here, that's confirmed, right?

Yes I'm certain,  it's confirmed, I swear on the bible!

 

The UK residency system is different because it uses a system of ties to determine tax residency. 90 days is only useful under certain circumstances and is only one small part of that picture.

 

https://www.litrg.org.uk/international/residence-and-domicile/uk-tax-residence/statutory-residence-test#:~:text=Broadly they are as follows,which you should also consider).

 

[UKresonant]

16 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Yes, i understand that.

 

I know guys that do the '90 day rule' to avoid UK tax and every day counts, so it's 180 days here, that's confirmed, right?

UK is being present at the end of the day. 183 days is the obvious one then it goes down various levels. Tax resident in one or both of the previous two tax years, >90 days and stay in your own property for one day 6th April to 5th April could do it! 

 

Thailand is any second , of a day to count. "180 Days or more" in a Calendar Year.

[Mike Lister]

A new version of the document incorporates most of the points discussed this week and has been posted in the OP in the Simple Tax Guide thread..

[Yumthai]

11 hours ago, 4myr said:

because CC 1161 is in line with a written FAQ question 1 from TRD [only in Thai language available], I have to agree reluctantly with CC 1161.

 

On the other hand the owner of the expat tax filing service company has very good contact with TRD people in Bangkok. I can't understand why he is wrong in this:

 

"If you are in Thailand for under 180 days per calendar year, you are a non-tax resident and you do not have to file a Thai tax return for foreign-sourced income. If you have income within Thailand, you may need to still file a return."

 

Above is in line with  https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html - "A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.” However this statement is more generic than the specific FAQ question 1 case.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

Foreign-sourced income
If a foreigner derives income from sources outside Thailand, such income is subject to income tax if the two following conditions are met:
- such income has been earned in any tax year starting from 1 January 2024 onward by a foreigner who stays in Thailand for 180 days or more in a tax (calendar) year, and;
- such income earned has been remitted to Thailand (wholly or partially), even if that remittance occurs in a later tax year.

 

The second condition does not precise what the individual tax residency status is (or has to be) when the remittance occurs.

 

Either it is interpreted like CC 1161 i.e.: tax residence does not matter, then this will override the current law stating "A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.",

OR

it is interpreted like the tax filing service company, CC 1111, and Prachuap i.e.: Thai tax residence is implied when the remittance occurs, matching with the current law stating "A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand."

 

Choose your side, I vote for the majority.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 hours ago, stat said:

That is what I expected: Ask 2 lawyers get 3 different answers. This will be a whole new level <deleted>show if TRD decides to follow through (big if but only my gut feeling). It shows one thing. be prepared for the worst and have several layers of insulation if push comes to shove. Everything we discuss here can only be used to have as many layers of insulation as possible (Gifts, creditcard usage, remittances of money earned before 2024 etc)- Godspeed to all of us!

Godspeed indeed - this whole income taxes on remittances scenario reminds me of the TM30 rules and their sudden over the top pedantic implementation by Immigration Police some years ago.  They started enforcing the 24 hour reporting period for TM30s and fining Expats when hotels did not report them staying and leaving, and some Expats had annual extensions denied/delayed. I recall it all blew up so much that it was front page Bangkok Post and on social media (not so big back then). There was a meeting at Journalists Club? that was broadcast online after 100s of signatures on a protest, and I recall the Head of BKK Immi Police 2 and a few of his other lackeys were there (and not enjoying it). He was asked at one stage 'why should an Expat pay 2000 Baht fine if he shows Passport etc but the hotel fails to report him'.  His arrogant smug answer was 'because that the law'.  That pretty much summed them up - ignorant arrogant little-hitlers. Anyway, it was a short period later when the whole thing was dropped and strict enforcement was 'abandoned' (but never publicly stated and the law is still on the books).  IMO the taxing of Expat's foreign sourced money is the in the same ball park, and it will be the same type of clusterphar... that is best avoided - which will inevitably just quietly get sidelined and 'go away' - which is what any silly Expat who contacts/visits a TRD office asking help to lodge a tax return about his Pension will be told to do. 

Edited April 26 by TroubleandGrumpy

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Godspeed indeed - this whole income taxes on remittances scenario reminds me of the TM30 rules and their sudden over the top pedantic implementation by Immigration Police some years ago.  They started enforcing the 24 hour reporting period for TM30s and fining Expats when hotels did not report them staying and leaving, and some Expats had annual extensions denied/delayed. I recall it all blew up so much that it was front page Bangkok Post and on social media (not so big back then). There was a meeting at Journalists Club? that was broadcast online after 100s of signatures on a protest, and I recall the Head of BKK Immi Police 2 and a few of his other lackeys were there (and not enjoying it). He was asked at one stage 'why should an Expat pay 2000 Baht fine if he shows Passport etc but the hotel fails to report him'.  His arrogant smug answer was 'because that the law'.  That pretty much summed them up - ignorant arrogant little-hitlers. Anyway, it was a short period later when the whole thing was dropped and strict enforcement was 'abandoned' (but never publicly stated and the law is still on the books).  IMO the taxing of Expat's foreign sourced money is the in the same ball park, and it will be the same type of clusterphar... that is best avoided - which will inevitably just quietly get sidelined and 'go away' - which is what any silly Expat who contacts/visits a TRD office asking help to lodge a tax return about his Pension will be told to do. 

The TM30 example is a good one. That law was created in 1979, used for a short time then suspended and then suddenly used again without warning a few years ago. The big risk for us is that some of these so called dormant tax laws follow the same path.

 

Although the TM30 laws and the requirement to report a foreigner's stay have been in place since 1979, the government has only recently begun to enforce them more strictly and added this as a requirement to the 90-day reporting and visa extension.

 

https://thailand-elite.com/what-is-tm30-all-about/#:~:text=Although the TM30 laws and,day reporting and visa extension.