Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

I doubt an RD clerk will have the time or gumption to spend time giving you free tax advice. But more importantly, if foreign income is your concern, no clerk is going to have intimate knowledge of your specific DTA, as he has over 60 to consider. So, you'll be more knowledgeable about your DTA than he will. But, if you're really unsure about what's taxable, and what's not -- I'm sure you'll have a whole host of tax preparers to choose from.

I agree that self-appraisal and self-assessment may be the only practical solution.

 

But then the Thai Rev folks have to acknowledge that there will be (I will be polite) fudging of opinions as to what deductions and exemptions to which some expats claim they are entitled.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

Is this all up in the air or is it 100% certain I and many others will be expected to pay tax on their pensions, in my case from the UK.

My local tax office said you choose where you pay tax here or your home country, I pay tax on all 3 of my pensions in the UK.

Yes I am a very big worrier, I want to do the right thing and avoid any problems.

Read this:

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

9 January, 2024

Version 5, Rev C

 

1. This purpose of this guide is to provide foreigners living in Thailand with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now potentially liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue Department or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax which must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement. There is assessable income that is taxable and assessable income that is exempt from tax, but "non-assessable" income does not really exist as an entity within the Thai Revenue Code. Consequently, readers should not think that some of your income is non-assessable. Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. This document is being drafted in January 2024. Tax returns are due between now and 31 March 2024 which cover the period, 1 January 2023 and 31 December 2023. The tax changes affecting foreigners in Thailand came into effect 1 January 2024 which means this years income activity is not reportable until 181 days from the start of the year, for year round residents it will be due 1 January next year, 2025.

 

8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

9. It should be noted that there always was an obligation on the part of foreigners who were tax resident in Thailand, to report assessable income every year, provided they meet the minimum income threshold. This law was not actively enforced in the past and many remained unaware of their obligation. Very little has changed today, that obligation remains unchanged albeit the scope of income that must be reported has now increased and tax collection has taken on a higher profile.

 

10. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

11. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

12. There are also classes or types of income that the RD regards as exempt from assessment and these are also linked below:

THIS IS A PLACE HOLDER FOR THE CORRECT LINK

 

13. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

14. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

15. First and foremost, only income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

16. The way in which the income is received in Thailand does not change its definition. Bank transfers, cheques, cash, overseas ATM and credit card transactions can also be income, the last two because overseas funds were imported to pay for goods or services in Thailand.

 

 

17. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

18. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessible income in Thailand.

 

19. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may be to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

20. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

21. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

22. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

23. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

24. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

25. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

26. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

27. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is on-line but only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

28. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

29. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

30. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

31. The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, the tax rules even list some types of income that are not assessable to help in this. In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable.

 

32. If a taxpayer is certain that some of their income is not assessable, they may not want to declare it on their Thai tax return.  Alternatively they may wish to ask the RD or employ specialist tax advisor's. It should go without saying that some taxpayers may try to suggest that some of their income is not assessable when really they don’t know for sure, or, they know that it is and say it that it isn’t, a sort of, chancing your arm and hoping you wont get found out. In that situation, the RD will not look favourably on such people and penalties are likely.

 

33. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

[Yumthai]

To bring more clarity about personal tax filing requirement in Thailand:
- There is no "failure to file" personal tax penalty.
- Fines arise only if tax is owed and/or "if someone intentionally provides false information, presents false evidence, or commits fraud to evade or attempt to evade taxes".

 

So, if you correctly assess with no intention of fraud and it's clear for you that you don't owe any tax, there can't be any penalty (if ever audited) for not filing.

 

There should be no fine for non-intentional mistakes, but only on the amount of tax due.

 

Good readings:

 

https://www.thailandlawonline.com/revenue-code/tax-law-revenue-code-general-provisions

 

https://www.thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/007_057

 

 

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

To bring more clarity about personal tax filing requirement in Thailand:
- There is no "failure to file" personal tax penalty.
- Fines arise only if tax is owed and/or "if someone intentionally provides false information, presents false evidence, or commits fraud to evade or attempt to evade taxes".

 

So, if you correctly assess with no intention of fraud and it's clear for you that you don't owe any tax, there can't be any penalty (if ever audited).

 

There should be no fine for non-intentional mistakes, but only on the amount of tax due.

 

Good readings:

 

https://www.thailandlawonline.com/revenue-code/tax-law-revenue-code-general-provisions

 

https://www.thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/007_057

 

 

1. If tax officials issue a summons and it is found that no tax form has been submitted or the tax paid is less than due, in addition to the surcharge, the individual will also be liable to pay a fine of either equal to or double the amount of tax due, depending on the case. The fine may be reduced or waived as per the director's regulations, with the Minister's approval.

From the above link.

 

As well intentioned as you may be, I would not rely on the information in either of those links.

 

 

[Rimmer]

An off topic post has been removed

[BobBKK]

17 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Read this:

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

9 January, 2024

Version 5, Rev C

 

1. This purpose of this guide is to provide foreigners living in Thailand with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now potentially liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue Department or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax which must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement. There is assessable income that is taxable and assessable income that is exempt from tax, but "non-assessable" income does not really exist as an entity within the Thai Revenue Code. Consequently, readers should not think that some of your income is non-assessable. Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. This document is being drafted in January 2024. Tax returns are due between now and 31 March 2024 which cover the period, 1 January 2023 and 31 December 2023. The tax changes affecting foreigners in Thailand came into effect 1 January 2024 which means this years income activity is not reportable until 181 days from the start of the year, for year round residents it will be due 1 January next year, 2025.

 

8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

9. It should be noted that there always was an obligation on the part of foreigners who were tax resident in Thailand, to report assessable income every year, provided they meet the minimum income threshold. This law was not actively enforced in the past and many remained unaware of their obligation. Very little has changed today, that obligation remains unchanged albeit the scope of income that must be reported has now increased and tax collection has taken on a higher profile.

 

10. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

11. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

12. There are also classes or types of income that the RD regards as exempt from assessment and these are also linked below:

THIS IS A PLACE HOLDER FOR THE CORRECT LINK

 

13. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

14. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

15. First and foremost, only income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

16. The way in which the income is received in Thailand does not change its definition. Bank transfers, cheques, cash, overseas ATM and credit card transactions can also be income, the last two because overseas funds were imported to pay for goods or services in Thailand.

 

 

17. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

18. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessible income in Thailand.

 

19. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may be to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

20. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

21. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

22. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

23. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

24. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

25. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

26. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

27. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is on-line but only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

28. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

29. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

30. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

31. The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, the tax rules even list some types of income that are not assessable to help in this. In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable.

 

32. If a taxpayer is certain that some of their income is not assessable, they may not want to declare it on their Thai tax return.  Alternatively they may wish to ask the RD or employ specialist tax advisor's. It should go without saying that some taxpayers may try to suggest that some of their income is not assessable when really they don’t know for sure, or, they know that it is and say it that it isn’t, a sort of, chancing your arm and hoping you wont get found out. In that situation, the RD will not look favourably on such people and penalties are likely.

 

33. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

 

"UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessible income in Thailand."

Thats odd, but helps my NHS pension, I assume the bands start AFTER I deduct that?  only on my Government and private pensions?  in my case that would help substantially and im due my government pension this year but will open a Phillipine bank account and get my annual rises (allowable in Philippines but not in Thailand).  ATM to the rescue!  

 

[The Cyclist]

13 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Well then, why don't YOU ask your local revenue office?

 

Because I have no doubt that different Revenue Offices will have different interpretations, much like like Immigration Office.

 

Which is why I would rather wait until conformation comes from the Government / the head honcho's at the RD.

 

I have already said numerous times, which the RD Office you visited yesterday confirmed, that income already taxed at source / in the UK would most likely not be taxed again in Thailand.

 

Did the RD Office actually confirm, if you had to file a tax return, even though your income will not be taxable in Thailand ?
 

Which is my bone of contention, not whether it will be taxed or not ( I already know it wont be taxed )

[Badrabbit]

As this starts this year I don't need to worry untill Jan/March 2025, I have no problem paying tax here, I live here so it makes sense.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

As this starts this year I don't need to worry untill Jan/March 2025, I have no problem paying tax here, I live here so it makes sense.

 

Huh? On pensions taxed in our home countries?  This is the point - not income earned while working.

[The Cyclist]

It is all so simple and logical and easy to understand 

 

2 posts, directly after one each, both quoting / responding to my very simple question.

 

I just need to know if I have a legal obligation to file a Thai Tax return if I have no assessable income ?
 

8 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

No!!! Nor an ethical one.

 

 

7 hours ago, Guavaman said:

The only way to answer this question is for a Thai RD tax assessor to consider your submission of a tax filing to determine whether or not you have assessable income.

 

 

Guavaman

 

I have made it clear that the income I am remitting is locked up by a DTA and only taxable in the UK, therefore any reasonable conclusion is that it would not be considered assessable income in Thailand.

 

But that doesn't answer my question.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

It is all so simple and logical and easy to understand 

 

2 posts, directly after one each, both quoting / responding to my very simple question.

 

I just need to know if I have a legal obligation to file a Thai Tax return if I have no assessable income ?
 

 

 

 

 

Guavaman

 

I have made it clear that the income I am remitting is locked up by a DTA and only taxable in the UK, therefore any reasonable conclusion is that it would not be considered assessable income in Thailand.

 

But that doesn't answer my question.

 

 

You keep repeating the same question but refuse to ask the expert tax consultant poster, refuse to ask the Revenue Department, refuse to consult a paid for tax expert, refuse to accept answers given to you by other posters, you just keep repeating the same questions, over and over like some dyslexic child. Between you and Grump you managed to extend the previous thread with utterly useless nonsense and in doing so, confuse everyone else and turn everyone off. Now you're trying to do the same here and in other threads. GIVE IT A REST. 

[Badrabbit]

34 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Huh? On pensions taxed in our home countries?  This is the point - not income earned while working.

Sorry I'm just overly worried and concerned, still very confused as I'm old.

[jerrymahoney]

As a member of the 65k+ per month contingent, I got the marching orders way back on page 78:

 

 

So I'm just waiting to hear the YOU FARANG!

[CharlieH]

flame/troll comments removed and responses to them.

[quake]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Because I have no doubt that different Revenue Offices will have different interpretations, much like like Immigration Office.

Which is why I would rather wait until conformation comes from the Government / the head honcho's at the RD.

 

That may well be the case.

Time will tell.

 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

So, if you correctly assess with no intention of fraud and it's clear for you that you don't owe any tax, there can't be any penalty (if ever audited) for not filing.

 

Bingo. No penalty, because the penalty is based on amount owed. And if nothing owed, no penalty. I really do think that most folks here can decipher their DTA with Thailand -- and know whether or not that they have assessable income that's reportable on a Thai tax return.

 

And, I can't see anything about a failure to file penalty, if nothing owed. Yes, if you do owe, and you file late -- looks like a 2000 baht fine. But no fine if nothing owed, and you didn't file.

 

And based on that, this "must file if you have 120,000 in assessable income" is nuts: That's a 380,000 baht gap before you reach the 500,000 exemption, allowance, deduction subtraction, meaning you're wasting somebody's time by having to file, when there are no taxes payable. Using the US, as representative of OECD nations, if your Adjusted Gross Income (basically, same as Thai assessable income) is less than your Standard Deduction (or itemizations), you have a negative Taxable Income -- and don't need to file for obvious reasons, at least from the revenue gathering angle. But, in the Thai situation, having a negative Taxable Income -- 380k in the above example -- you're still required to file. What a lot of paper processing with no revenue involved. Dumb.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't file in the above situation, because there's no penalty, that I can see, since any penalty would be an assessment off taxes owed -- and there are no taxes owed. Full stop. This is the same situation in the States, where if you overwithhold, or pay extra estimated taxes -- so that you have a negative tax bill -- you don't have to file. I've already set things up for the wife, that when I croak, and since there's no way she could do taxes, or even download 1099s to give to a preparer (of which we have none in Chiang Mai), that I'll overwithhold by about $400 on all her earnings. This is what she'd pay for a tax preparer in Bangkok -- at the high end. Anyway, told her, just don't file, and the overwithholdings you forfeit will balance out with the saved preparer fee. Plus, no tax hassle headache, on top of everything else that will complicate her life.

 

Anyway, sorry, I digress. But, I love tax puzzles.

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

1. If tax officials issue a summons and it is found that no tax form has been submitted or the tax paid is less than due, in addition to the surcharge, the individual will also be liable to pay a fine of either equal to or double the amount of tax due, depending on the case. The fine may be reduced or waived as per the director's regulations, with the Minister's approval.

From the above link.

 

As well intentioned as you may be, I would not rely on the information in either of those links.

 

If you read carefully your own quote, it is clearly implied that in this article tax is due. Just because the fine is applied on the amount of the tax due. Simple logic.

 

In any case, if tax due is 0 then the fine for not filing would be ranging from 100% of the amount of the tax due (0) up to 200% of the amount of the tax due (0). Both calculations = 0. Simple math.

 

@Sheryl mentioned the same - no penalty for failure to file - in her post below:

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

 

If you read carefully your own quote, it is clearly implied that in this article tax is due. Just because the fine is applied on the amount of the tax due. Simple logic.

 

In any case, if tax due is 0 then the fine for not filing would be ranging from 100% of the amount of the tax due (0) up to 200% of the amount of the tax due (0). Both calculations = 0. Simple math.

 

@Sheryl mentioned the same - no penalty for failure to file - in her post below:

 

 

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

Bingo. No penalty, because the penalty is based on amount owed. And if nothing owed, no penalty. I really do think that most folks here can decipher their DTA with Thailand -- and know whether or not that they have assessable income that's reportable on a Thai tax return.

 

And, I can't see anything about a failure to file penalty, if nothing owed. Yes, if you do owe, and you file late -- looks like a 2000 baht fine. But no fine if nothing owed, and you didn't file.

 

And based on that, this "must file if you have 120,000 in assessable income" is nuts: That's a 380,000 baht gap before you reach the 500,000 exemption, allowance, deduction subtraction, meaning you're wasting somebody's time by having to file, when there are no taxes payable. Using the US, as representative of OECD nations, if your Adjusted Gross Income (basically, same as Thai assessable income) is less than your Standard Deduction (or itemizations), you have a negative Taxable Income -- and don't need to file for obvious reasons, at least from the revenue gathering angle. But, in the Thai situation, having a negative Taxable Income -- 380k in the above example -- you're still required to file. What a lot of paper processing with no revenue involved. Dumb.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't file in the above situation, because there's no penalty, that I can see, since any penalty would be an assessment off taxes owed -- and there are no taxes owed. Full stop. This is the same situation in the States, where if you overwithhold, or pay extra estimated taxes -- so that you have a negative tax bill -- you don't have to file. I've already set things up for the wife, that when I croak, and since there's no way she could do taxes, or even download 1099s to give to a preparer (of which we have none in Chiang Mai), that I'll overwithhold by about $400 on all her earnings. This is what she'd pay for a tax preparer in Bangkok -- at the high end. Anyway, told her, just don't file, and the overwithholdings you forfeit will balance out with the saved preparer fee. Plus, no tax hassle headache, on top of everything else that will complicate her life.

 

Anyway, sorry, I digress. But, I love tax puzzles.

 

My turn for one of those simple questions people keep raising:

 

From reading what both posters above have written, it seems that the criteria determining whether to file or not, is dictated by whether there is a penalty involved if you don't file, rather than what the RD requires in the tax code! eg:

 

RD says you need to file if your income is above the threshold.

 

Posters say, if we don't owe tax, there's no penalty involved if we don't so why bother! Hmmm!

 

It's difficult to know what to advise others on this, the RD criteria or the posters criteria, call me silly but I'll have to go with the former! 

 

 

[bdenner]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:41 PM, Guavaman said:

Inevitability:  It is only a matter of time until immigration links up with RD, not electronically, but first on paper. 

 

We each have our own version of Thai Tax Hell awaiting:

 

Immigration Officer: "You farang -- you have money in bank. How you live? Show me your Thai tax return for your visa extension of stay showing that you paid tax on monthly income of 35k (married) or 65k (single.)"

 

Immigration Officer: "You farang -- you have retirement income of 65k per month. Show me your Thai tax return for your visa extension of stay showing that you paid tax on income of 65k monthly. 

 

Revenue Department Officer: same dialogue

 

Pandora's Box of Worms!!

It's started already!! Renewed my retirement extension late Dec. using the 65K rule.

New hoops, as a self funded retiree I had to show em my phone with ASX dividend payments showing tax had been payed. Only gave em one as an example and pointed out the franking credits. Had em knackered, the supervisor spent 45 minutes on the phone before they gave me another 12 months.

[John207]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Read this:

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

9 January, 2024

Version 5, Rev C

 

1. This purpose of this guide is to provide foreigners living in Thailand with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now potentially liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue Department or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax which must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement. There is assessable income that is taxable and assessable income that is exempt from tax, but "non-assessable" income does not really exist as an entity within the Thai Revenue Code. Consequently, readers should not think that some of your income is non-assessable. Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. This document is being drafted in January 2024. Tax returns are due between now and 31 March 2024 which cover the period, 1 January 2023 and 31 December 2023. The tax changes affecting foreigners in Thailand came into effect 1 January 2024 which means this years income activity is not reportable until 181 days from the start of the year, for year round residents it will be due 1 January next year, 2025.

 

8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

9. It should be noted that there always was an obligation on the part of foreigners who were tax resident in Thailand, to report assessable income every year, provided they meet the minimum income threshold. This law was not actively enforced in the past and many remained unaware of their obligation. Very little has changed today, that obligation remains unchanged albeit the scope of income that must be reported has now increased and tax collection has taken on a higher profile.

 

10. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

11. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

12. There are also classes or types of income that the RD regards as exempt from assessment and these are also linked below:

THIS IS A PLACE HOLDER FOR THE CORRECT LINK

 

13. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

14. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

15. First and foremost, only income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

16. The way in which the income is received in Thailand does not change its definition. Bank transfers, cheques, cash, overseas ATM and credit card transactions can also be income, the last two because overseas funds were imported to pay for goods or services in Thailand.

 

 

17. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

18. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessible income in Thailand.

 

19. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may be to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

20. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

21. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

22. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

23. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

24. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

25. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

26. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

27. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is on-line but only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

28. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

29. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

30. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

31. The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, the tax rules even list some types of income that are not assessable to help in this. In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable.

 

32. If a taxpayer is certain that some of their income is not assessable, they may not want to declare it on their Thai tax return.  Alternatively they may wish to ask the RD or employ specialist tax advisor's. It should go without saying that some taxpayers may try to suggest that some of their income is not assessable when really they don’t know for sure, or, they know that it is and say it that it isn’t, a sort of, chancing your arm and hoping you wont get found out. In that situation, the RD will not look favourably on such people and penalties are likely.

 

33. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

Interesting document! Paragraph 8 seems to be contradicting what's stated in paragraph 4 though.

Or is it me interpreting it incorrectly? Would you mind sharing the source of this document?

Thanks

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, John207 said:

Interesting document! Paragraph 8 seems to be contradicting what's stated in paragraph 4 though.

Or is it me interpreting it incorrectly? Would you mind sharing the source of this document?

Thanks

I wrote it based on what I know and what other posters have discussed in tax related threads over the past three months. If you spot errors, please identify them and explain what and why.

[UKresonant]

7 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

Is this all up in the air or is it 100% certain I and many others will be expected to pay tax on their pensions, in my case from the UK.

My local tax office said you choose where you pay tax here or your home country, I pay tax on all 3 of my pensions in the UK.

Yes I am a very big worrier, I want to do the right thing and avoid any problems.

 

I think I like that tax office then, if my pensions can remain as they are, taxed in the UK, one of my main concerns  is that they would push that they have priority on taxation under article 4. It sounds like they are ok with  DTA article 23 3, the tax in the UK is allowed as a credit against against Thai Tax. Sounds like they are allowing what is most beneficial for the payer. (I'm thinking from the position of whether 179 days is a limit, or it is practical to file there without getting caught between the two tax systems, so I could cumulatively be there say 271 Days cumulatively, based on past profile).  Next Thing would be the supporting documents they will accept for the tax credit listing, whether practical or not.

 

So the submission I'm thinking would be perhaps

1. Non-Gov  Pension Element        Gross amount with Tax Credit for tax deducted in UK (which is same as net remittance), tax credit against Thai RD tax computation

2. Government Pension Element Gross amount with 100% Tax Credit = against Thai RD tax computation

3. Private Pension A Gross amount with Tax Credit for tax deducted in UK (which is same as net remittance), tax credit against Thai RD tax computation

4. Private Pension  B Gross amount with Tax Credit for tax deducted in UK (which is same as net remittance), tax credit against Thai RD tax computation

5. Savings  equivl. 100% of one of the minor pensions(perhaps the Gov one, with P60 tax cert if remitted 2025 onwards).

Gross UK income less tax credits for UK tax paid, leaves Thai tax to pay, but which should not be much more.

 

Only Pensions getting remitted to Thai land, with only pensions remitted to a single UK bank account. Anything else is on the moon as far as they are concerned and would be getting expended in maintaining UK commitments anyway. What could Go Wrong 

 

I share your sentiment  "I want to do the right thing and avoid any problems". 

 

I think I would need to go through the process with only the Gov and one minor private pension remitted as a trial, to have confidence (or a large number of confirming experience posts in 2025.

 

 

 

 

[TheAppletons]

2 hours ago, bdenner said:

It's started already!! Renewed my retirement extension late Dec. using the 65K rule.

New hoops, as a self funded retiree I had to show em my phone with ASX dividend payments showing tax had been payed. Only gave em one as an example and pointed out the franking credits. Had em knackered, the supervisor spent 45 minutes on the phone before they gave me another 12 months.

 

  Uh huh.  News flash - it hasn't "started already".  

 

  Since the new "rule" was scheduled to take effect on 1 Jan 2024, your December extension renewal had no tax implications whatsoever under this new interpretation.

 

  Sounds a lot like a rogue IO trying to earn some extra pocket money.  

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, bdenner said:

It's started already!! Renewed my retirement extension late Dec. using the 65K rule.

New hoops, as a self funded retiree I had to show em my phone with ASX dividend payments showing tax had been payed. Only gave em one as an example and pointed out the franking credits. Had em knackered, the supervisor spent 45 minutes on the phone before they gave me another 12 months.

 

What immigration office was that?

[stat]

2 hours ago, bdenner said:

It's started already!! Renewed my retirement extension late Dec. using the 65K rule.

New hoops, as a self funded retiree I had to show em my phone with ASX dividend payments showing tax had been payed. Only gave em one as an example and pointed out the franking credits. Had em knackered, the supervisor spent 45 minutes on the phone before they gave me another 12 months.

So they were checking that you payed taxes in order to get an extension? If just the witholding tax is sufficient that would be great news . You do not get around the withholding tax on dividends anyway in most cases. Thanks for any clarification!

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

RD says you need to file if your income is above the threshold.

 

Posters say, if we don't owe tax, there's no penalty involved if we don't so why bother! Hmmm!

 

I usually do not waste my time and energy trying to follow unenforced or unenforceable rules/law. To me, it does not make sense.

 

To each their own.

 

[John207]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I wrote it based on what I know and what other posters have discussed in tax related threads over the past three months. If you spot errors, please identify them and explain what and why.

Paragraph 4 says people with LTR visa  receive tax exemption status by royal decree.

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

And paragraph 8 says  that if you're spending more than 179 days per year in Thailand, you will always be considered to be a tax resident in Thailand regardless of the type of visa you have.

 

8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

They seem contradictory 

[Mike Lister]

36 minutes ago, John207 said:

Paragraph 4 says people with LTR visa  receive tax exemption status by royal decree.

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

And paragraph 8 says  that if you're spending more than 179 days per year in Thailand, you will always be considered to be a tax resident in Thailand regardless of the type of visa you have.

 

8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

They seem contradictory 

Yes, Thanks, I need to change the wording on para 8 to reflect that there is a special class of visa that is outside the RD rules.

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

 

My turn for one of those simple questions people keep raising:

 

From reading what both posters above have written, it seems that the criteria determining whether to file or not, is dictated by whether there is a penalty involved if you don't file, rather than what the RD requires in the tax code! eg:

 

RD says you need to file if your income is above the threshold.

 

Posters say, if we don't owe tax, there's no penalty involved if we don't so why bother! Hmmm!

 

It's difficult to know what to advise others on this, the RD criteria or the posters criteria, call me silly but I'll have to go with the former! 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

 

I usually do not waste my time and energy trying to follow unenforced or unenforceable rules/law. To me, it does not make sense.

 

To each their own.

 

I understand your rationale but it seems unreasonable to provide guidance to others by saying that there is a law you can safely ignore because it's not being enforced at present or there's no associated fine, yet. Everyone needs to know what the law says and make their own decision whether to follow it or not.

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, bdenner said:

It's started already!! Renewed my retirement extension late Dec. using the 65K rule.

New hoops, as a self funded retiree I had to show em my phone with ASX dividend payments showing tax had been payed. Only gave em one as an example and pointed out the franking credits. Had em knackered, the supervisor spent 45 minutes on the phone before they gave me another 12 months.

I'm going to regard this as anecdotal, probably an Immi officer chancing his luck and hoping.