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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I


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16 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

 

meanwhile Chinese, hk, taiwanese citizens are not paying tax on their multiple rentals in Thailand 

You are suggesting that some Asians own rental properties in Thailand, but do not pay tax on their income. Since the cash transfers can't be tracked by RD, they can probably freely evade paying taxes.

 

However, people on retirement visas who live off monies transferred into Thailand are more easily monitored by RD. So, they may be forced to comply with the new rules.

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20 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You are suggesting that some Asians own rental properties in Thailand, but do not pay tax on their income. Since the cash transfers can't be tracked by RD, they can probably freely evade paying taxes.

 

However, people on retirement visas who live off monies transferred into Thailand are more easily monitored by RD. So, they may be forced to comply with the new rules.

 

So, for those pesky Asians who are renting out multiple properties in Thailand through Thai agents and are actually not living in Thailand, the 15% withholding tax should apply.

 

Something to consider the next time your agent refuses to give you deposit back.

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4 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

So, for those pesky Asians who are renting out multiple properties in Thailand through Thai agents and are actually not living in Thailand, the 15% withholding tax should apply.

 

Something to consider the next time your agent refuses to give you deposit back.

Right.

 

And I *should* be sitting on the beach in Copacabana.

 

 

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5 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

My bank receives transfers in every 4 weeks labelled as old age pension payments coming from a foreign gov't department dedicated to pension payments. They can in a few seconds search and build a picture of such transfers coming in every 4 weeks for over 15 years.

 

My Thai bank has never once asked one question re these funds.

They probably never will, why would they? Your Thai bank is receiving funds from overseas, so what?

 

 The post above refers to UK banks requesting Thai TIN's from their British customers who also live in Thailand, they want to know that the customer is registered for tax here and understand where that customer pays tax, the UK or Thailand.

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On 1/27/2024 at 8:51 PM, Yumthai said:

 

What will be extremely helpful to mention and quote are real-life examples of the average Joe expat being audited, fined and penalized for having not paid tax (i.e. Personal Income Tax) they owed.

 

With such cases of individual tax law enforcement, everyone could evaluate real risks involved then decide accordingly.

 

If it can't be found, then even real-life tax law enforcement examples on locals could at some extent be useful.

 

I agree that sort of information will be useful downstream but I don't think we're anywhere near to that point. Audits and fines on any scale are probably 12 to 15 months away at the soonest. In the meantime, what we desperately need is for posters to give us details of what happened when they visited  the Revenue office because that will help many people plan and make better decisions. 

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On 1/27/2024 at 2:50 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

Pak Chong

 

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I agree that sort of information will be useful downstream but I don't think we're anywhere near to that point. Audits and fines on any scale are probably 12 to 15 months away at the soonest. In the meantime, what we desperately need is for posters to give us details of what happened when they visited  the Revenue office because that will help many people plan and make better decisions. 

 

Agreed. The Cyclist has already done this. As I'm in Bangkok, I'm obviously interested in anyone's experience here.

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10 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

 

Agreed. The Cyclist has already done this. As I'm in Bangkok, I'm obviously interested in anyone's experience here.

 

Here is the context, for those who missed it. His RD office is Pak Chong:

 

Quote

 

Just posted this on a newly opened thread, might be of use to some.

 

I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.

 

P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout with matching colour coding.

 

All as easy as pie.

 

Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

Take your pick from the following

 

* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.

 

* My local RD couldn't care less.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Here is the context, for those who missed it. His RD office is Pak Chong:

 

 

There's two primary reason why a return need not be filed. The first is it was a nill return, the second is that the imported funds had already been taxed in the UK. Without sitting down and reading other threads and posts, it's not immediately clear to me which reason applies in his case. Knowing the reason for absolute certain, is important.

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22 hours ago, Anthony mellows said:

For God's sake please somebody start a new thread on this topic.

There have been several attempts, but they all get diluted with drivel and posters bounce back here. There is one by @Mike Lister that remains useful, just. One topic on Tax agents could be helpful too, but would require tight moderation as well.

 

I think the Tax issue is quite serious and this forum could be useful, but is seems that most posters don't think so.

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3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

There have been several attempts, but they all get diluted with drivel and posters bounce back here. There is one by @Mike Lister that remains useful, just. One topic on Tax agents could be helpful too, but would require tight moderation as well.

 

I think the Tax issue is quite serious and this forum could be useful, but is seems that most posters don't think so.

There was no focus and no ring fence in the debates, it was all posturing and drivel and circular discussions, that's why it didn't go anywhere and why people aren't interested any more. Plus it didn't serve any useful purpose to the majority of readers who couldn't understand the debate and couldn't find anything useful. 

 

If you want a thread on Tax Agents, open one in the business and economics section and I'll make sure it is tightly moderated. 

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24 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

So what was Assessable Income "  prior to 01 Jan 2024 ?

 

Was it not 

 

* Pak Chong RD Office think otherwise.

 

* I will defer to numerous previous comments, made by myself, and others, who were led to believe, although probably did not know for a fact, that my UK pensions, and other sources of Income were not considered " Assessable income "  in Thailand for tax purposes.

 

 

Possible explanations include:

 

1) The Revenue Code is wrong

 

2) Pak Chong is wrong

 

My strongest suggestion is that everyone forget about your visit to the Revenue and your particular circumstances because none of what has been said about it thus far is helpful or useful. For the purpose of this thread we need to find somebody else who has interacted with the RD and asked questions and received answers.

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7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

My strongest suggestion is that everyone forget about your visit to the Revenue and your particular circumstances because none of what has been said about it thus far is helpful or useful. For the purpose of this thread we need to find somebody else who has interacted with the RD and asked questions and received answers.

 

Paging @Shoeless Joe

 

Can you remind us of your visit to your local RD Office again

 

Paging @Isan Farang

 

Can you remind us of your visit to your local RD Office again.

 

2 that I can recall posting on the thread, and I think with similar experience to mine

 

@Will B Good might have followed up on his unanswered emails.

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1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Paging @Shoeless Joe

 

Can you remind us of your visit to your local RD Office again

 

Paging @Isan Farang

 

Can you remind us of your visit to your local RD Office again.

 

2 that I can recall posting on the thread, and I think with similar experience to mine

 

@Will B Good might have followed up on his unanswered emails.

 

I found the report from Shoeless Joe and this is linked below (page 8):

 

 

My questions on it include:

1) was SJ's pension income remitted in the same year it was earned?

2) were the pensions government pensions or not

3) probably others I haven't thought of yet but we';ll start with the above.

 

A few observations:

 

Nan is a remote border province and SJ does say that he was the first person to ever ask the questions of RD staff there that he did. I wonder how reliable the answer is and whether that office represents the Thai Revenue on this subject. Perhaps SJ can fill in some of the gaps for us?

 

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Here's a second report mentioned by cyclist, this one a cut and paste from Isan Farang.

 

"Today i went to the Tax office in Ubon, to get my tax refund that was deducted from my FD savings last year. The lady told my wife my pension and savings being sent from the UK is not to be taxed. She said if i am a pensioner and have no employment i do not fill out any tax documents.

 

When my wife said there are some supposed new rules starting from Jan 24, the lady smiled and said Thailand has many new rules but none of them are followed. She has worked there for 40 years." 

 

This report also does not seem to mention the type of pension and whether there is any reference to DTA's, it appears to be a casual conversation between the posters wife and a Revenue employee who doesn't seem that keen on RD rules!

 

 

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What strikes me about the three Revenue Department contact reports mentioned so far, cyclist, Shoeless Joe and Isan Farang is how inconclusive they all are. One is a casual conversation at best, another is in a very remote border RD office and the third, was cyclist non-communicative episode. Based on what I've seen so far, none of the people seemed interested in finding out reasons why and whether what they were told was policy or merely something that was said to make everyone happy. As soon as they heard the words, no need to file, they were out of there like a shot.

 

I get the idea that most people are more interested in finding out what their personal situation is regarding tax and the RD rather than trying to understand the issue more completely and inform everyone else. Maybe that sort of response works for some people, it doesn't do much for me, I'd like to understand a little bit more about the detail and the reasons why, so I'll keep looking.

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